General Brake Upgrade

[stuartcj]

Apologies if this has been done before but I did search and couldn't find what I was looking for.

Anyway..........

9 years have passed since I bought my VFR and 32 years since I took up motorcycling (!) now, with a beautiful young daughter in the house I'm not quite so carefree as i once was...hey, I even considered selling the bike finally but...

The thing is, I really like my bike - but I've never really been impressed with it's stopping ability. I'm sure the front could be better and for my liking the rear is just too easy to lock-up.

I have rotors in decent (within wear rate) condition and the pads still have meat left on them. I swapped to SS braided disks years ago ( I always do) and the fluid is reasonably new too. In addition the front forks were custom re-valved and re-sprung a few years back so should be prone to dive less. I'm still not happy though.

I guess that after lots of discussions here there must by now be some consensus on what works and what doesn't ? for this year I may well just buy some decent quality pads and flush the fluid though, but how can I "improve" for the long-term ? I'm sure that there must be some better calipers out there at a reasonable cost for my bike ('94 - 4th gen) and long-term would even consider swapping the whole front-end ( I understand that some years of VTR's fit)?

Not really sure about what I can do with the rear though as in many respects that works just too well.

I'm open to options without spending 1000's

Thanks

:laugh:

[Guest]

Order some EBC GFA226HH brake pads. They are race pads that are for F3's they fit in the 4th gen calipers and have much better stopping power! They don't damage the rotor.

[stuartcj]

Thanks.... that's item 1 added to the list which I will order and try asap.

Order some EBC GFA226HH brake pads. They are race pads that are for F3's they fit in the 4th gen calipers and have much better stopping power! They don't damage the rotor.

[FotoMoto]

Upgrade the pads is your next option. Next, would be custom caliper mounts.

Having owned both a 4gen and a VTR, I wouldn't do that fork swap. Might have been a "hot mod" 10 years ago with it came out but there are better options. A fork swap is a very popular VTR mod so that should tell you something. :laugh: Being 41mm does make it simple though.

I'd recommend going with a CBR600F4i front end (triple, clip ons, forks, fender, brakes). That's what I'm currently running. You can still use your 4gen wheel and rotors. You'll get more adjustability and better compliance than the VTR plus more rigidity (43mm) and better brakes. They are also about the same length which is very important. NOTE: I have switched to 6gen triples and prefer them.

I don't know about your side of the pond but in the US they can be had pretty cheap.

[mrmatt]

For a front end swap the RC51 may be a good option for you. Several have done it and really like the feedback on that mod, and I believe that they are the closest in length to the stock forks.

I am putting a 954 on mine, the forks are lower so it will change the geometry somewhat, and the clipons will be much lower. The rotors are 330mm (compared to 298mm stock) as well the brake pads are much larger. This is a straight bolt on with the complete 954 front end and is so far straight forward, though I think the oil radiator will have to be moved slightly.

[JZH]

Having owned both a 4gen and a VTR, I wouldn't do that fork swap. Might have been a "hot mod" 10 years ago with it came out but there are better options. A fork swap is a very popular VTR mod so that should tell you something. :ohmy: Being 41mm does make it simple though.

I'd recommend going with a CBR600F4i front end (triple, clip ons, forks, fender, brakes). That's what I'm currently running. You can still use your 4gen wheel and rotors. You'll get more adjustability and better compliance than the VTR plus more rigidity (43mm) and better brakes. They are also about the same length which is very important. NOTE: I have switched to 6gen triples and prefer them.

This canard again? C'mon, nobody swaps forks and keeps them stock, do they? The VTR's HMAS valves are fairly crap, but otherwise the forks are the same internally as any other Honda (Showa) OEM cartridge fork, so there is no rational reason to expect that (post re-build and re-valve) they would perform any better OR any worse...

That said, I do like the F4i swap. That bike was a brand new model when I did the VTR fork swap ten years ago, so it wasn't really an option on my budget. The VTR's calipers are not as good as those on the F4i, either, and if you want to keep the OEM integrated master cylinder-look with decent calipers, the PC35 is the only option I'm aware of (I'm using PC35 calipers/master on my RC46/RC51 swap for this reason). Not sure if the F4i front fender comes in a VFR-compatible colour, but I suppose that depends on what colour Stuart's VFR is...

The basement-budget option would be to machine some simple caliper brackets for the existing fourth-gen forks and fit something like F4i calipers and master cylinder. I've seen this done before (search for "Druid" on the UK Bikersoracle VFR forum), but nobody sells them ready-made.

Ciao,

[stuartcj]

Great....that's a few things for me to start looking into and collecting.

(quickly fill me in on what a "954" is though - maybe a different name over here perhaps )?

[stuartcj]

ignore that...I googled "954" and it's a fireblade that I dont think we saw here.

:ohmy:

Great....that's a few things for me to start looking into and collecting.

(quickly fill me in on what a "954" is though - maybe a different name over here perhaps )?

[Joe Foe from Buffalo]

I for one would be interested in paying for brackets made to allow the Gen4 OEM forks to be used with better brake calipers. I all ready upgraded my forks with F3 upper forks and had them rebuilt by this place and they work good enough for my needs.

http://www.traxxion.com/

P.S. I have tried to contact "Druid" on the Honda VFR Club website with no replies. Last post he did was 2004 so he must have moved on.

[ggathagan]

I put a set of wave rotors on my '94 and was very pleased with the improvement. A lot more bite, but it was a smooth progression, not abrupt.

They're not cheap ($550-$600USD for the front pair).

Both Galfer and Braking produce them. Don't know if there's a clear advantage of one brand over the other. They may even be the same item.

[stuartcj]

yes, thanks ...i checked that out...$273 per disc !!! (Galfer.... at todays rate )...owwwwwchhh !!......

I put a set of wave rotors on my '94 and was very pleased with the improvement. A lot more bite, but it was a smooth progression, not abrupt.

They're not cheap ($550-$600USD for the front pair).

Both Galfer and Braking produce them. Don't know if there's a clear advantage of one brand over the other. They may even be the same item.

[Veefer800Canuck]

ignore that...I googled "954" and it's a fireblade that I dont think we saw here.

:fing02:

Great....that's a few things for me to start looking into and collecting.

(quickly fill me in on what a "954" is though - maybe a different name over here perhaps )?

Yeah, you guys got it. 1st gen Fireblade was a 900, 2nd gen was a 929 and the 3rd gen was the 954.

Over there, you call them all Fireblades, over here, it's the (cbr) 900RR, 929 and 954. Then the 1000RR after that, of course.

And if you're a YamaKawaZuki fan, you call it the Honda Fireplace. :fing02:

[Veefer800Canuck]

yes, thanks ...i checked that out...$273 per disc !!! (Galfer.... at todays rate )...owwwwwchhh !!......

EBAY? :fing02:

Oooh, not Galfer, but still quite wavey at $149 per pair:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Front-Brake...emZ250365475401

And here, from the same seller:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Front-Brake...emZ260354602188

In black, from another seller, $160:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Front-Brake...emZ200308954061

[mello dude]

Apologies if this has been done before but I did search and couldn't find what I was looking for.

Anyway..........

9 years have passed since I bought my VFR and 32 years since I took up motorcycling (!) now, with a beautiful young daughter in the house I'm not quite so carefree as i once was...hey, I even considered selling the bike finally but...

The thing is, I really like my bike - but I've never really been impressed with it's stopping ability. I'm sure the front could be better and for my liking the rear is just too easy to lock-up.

I have rotors in decent (within wear rate) condition and the pads still have meat left on them. I swapped to SS braided disks years ago ( I always do) and the fluid is reasonably new too. In addition the front forks were custom re-valved and re-sprung a few years back so should be prone to dive less. I'm still not happy though.

I guess that after lots of discussions here there must by now be some consensus on what works and what doesn't ? for this year I may well just buy some decent quality pads and flush the fluid though, but how can I "improve" for the long-term ? I'm sure that there must be some better calipers out there at a reasonable cost for my bike ('94 - 4th gen) and long-term would even consider swapping the whole front-end ( I understand that some years of VTR's fit)?

Not really sure about what I can do with the rear though as in many respects that works just too well.

I'm open to options without spending 1000's

Thanks

:fing02:

If you decided you didnt want to do a total fork swap, you could keep what you already have but go with VTR fork lowers. Then the caliper choices are -- VTR, RC51, F4i, and 2001 or 02 six pot GSXR1000 calipers. You probably would need a different master cylinder. - Not the absolute optimum, but not bad either. I did it with RC51 gear on my 5th gen. (Gotta admit, I like the F4i fork swap option.)

On the rear - I think the stock master cylinder is a 1/2 inch. If that is too sensistive for you, you could go to a 14mm diameter MC. F4i, SH, RC51 are all 14mm. Its a fairly easy swap to try. You may have to cut down the push rod and then cut the banjo bolt locator tabs, but it should drop in simple.

MD

[stuartcj]

THAT's why I didnt recognise the name !!... yes, here they are all just "Fireblades" (same as here they are all just "VFR's" - we just say 750-800 and VTEC ( or we use the year to tell the difference) ) .

Lots of good options coming in here guys.... thanks again.

My rear locking problem could of course be down to my tyre choice (BT020 which I always choose ). could be that harder compound in the centre doesn't quite suit my (relative) light weight.

ignore that...I googled "954" and it's a fireblade that I dont think we saw here.

:fing02:

Great....that's a few things for me to start looking into and collecting.

(quickly fill me in on what a "954" is though - maybe a different name over here perhaps )?

Yeah, you guys got it. 1st gen Fireblade was a 900, 2nd gen was a 929 and the 3rd gen was the 954.

Over there, you call them all Fireblades, over here, it's the (cbr) 900RR, 929 and 954. Then the 1000RR after that, of course.

And if you're a YamaKawaZuki fan, you call it the Honda Fireplace. :fing02:

[Guest]

You might try Harrison billit calipers - an English firm. make 6 pot custom calipers for many models, said to be ' bolt on' , no extra brackets, etc. . . . google