stuartcj

THAT's why I didnt recognise the name !!... yes, here they are all just "Fireblades" (same as here they are all just "VFR's" - we just say 750-800 and VTEC ( or we use the year to tell the difference) ) . Lots of good options coming in here guys.... thanks again. My rear locking problem could of course be down to my tyre choice (BT020 which I always choose ). could be that harder compound in the centre doesn't quite suit my (relative) light weight. Yeah, you guys got it. 1st gen Fireblade was a 900, 2nd gen was a 929 and the 3rd gen was the 954. Over there, you call them all Fireblades, over here, it's the (cbr) 900RR, 929 and 954. Then the 1000RR after that, of course. And if you're a YamaKawaZuki fan, you call it the Honda Fireplace. :fing02:

yes, thanks ...i checked that out...$273 per disc !!! (Galfer.... at todays rate )...owwwwwchhh !!......

ignore that...I googled "954" and it's a fireblade that I dont think we saw here. :ohmy:

Great....that's a few things for me to start looking into and collecting. (quickly fill me in on what a "954" is though - maybe a different name over here perhaps )?

Thanks.... that's item 1 added to the list which I will order and try asap.

Apologies if this has been done before but I did search and couldn't find what I was looking for. Anyway.......... 9 years have passed since I bought my VFR and 32 years since I took up motorcycling (!) now, with a beautiful young daughter in the house I'm not quite so carefree as i once was...hey, I even considered selling the bike finally but... The thing is, I really like my bike - but I've never really been impressed with it's stopping ability. I'm sure the front could be better and for my liking the rear is just too easy to lock-up. I have rotors in decent (within wear rate) condition and the pads still have meat left on them. I swapped to SS braided disks years ago ( I always do) and the fluid is reasonably new too. In addition the front forks were custom re-valved and re-sprung a few years back so should be prone to dive less. I'm still not happy though. I guess that after lots of discussions here there must by now be some consensus on what works and what doesn't ? for this year I may well just buy some decent quality pads and flush the fluid though, but how can I "improve" for the long-term ? I'm sure that there must be some better calipers out there at a reasonable cost for my bike ('94 - 4th gen) and long-term would even consider swapping the whole front-end ( I understand that some years of VTR's fit)? Not really sure about what I can do with the rear though as in many respects that works just too well. I'm open to options without spending 1000's Thanks :laugh:

absolutely right there. It could have been a whole lot worse !

hahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahhahahhahah.............................. that's me laughing like an idiot as for the first time in about a year and a half there is a wonderful noise coming from my garage !! But of course, I am entitled to laugh like an idiot....because I AM one it seems (let me explain ) : My first job of the day was to dismantle the switchgear and look for anything untoward. Nothing there so it all went back together. That left only 1 test that I could try namely shorting the connections of the solenoid to send current directly to the starter and bypass everything else. Well, for some reason I really didn't fancy that idea. The sparks it creates are HUGE so I wanted an an alternative. My "cunning plan" was to connect the live crocodile clip of my booster pack to the terminal on the starter motor and carefully touch the frame somewhere with the other one. That way I would bypass absolutely EVERYTHING and prove once and for all that the starter motor was in fact working. So I did just that and................same. The engine would struggle to turn. That meant it definitely wasn't the battery, the solenoid, the switch, the wiring, the earth points or the starter cable. It didnt however prove anything with the starter motor. So... cunning plan number 2. I DO have another engine sitting there so I took the starter motor off, installed it onto the "spare" engine.and whhhheeeeee.....it spun like crazy ! So Definitely not the starter either it HAD to be the engine. Now...here is the idiot part. While watching the starter spin on the spare engine, because there is no engine cases on it the pivot/peg that the main starter gear sits on had no other pivot point on the other end so it twisted slightly, broke of a lump of metal on the crankcase and flew off. I was really rather annoyed by that as there went my last alternative (swapping that engine into my bike), but it DID get me thinking : So, I drained the oil and unbolted the engine case. While I was doing this something dropped into my oil bowl so I fished around with my fingers and found a thick washer/ shim that I recognised from picking up the pieces of the other engine as belonging to the pin that the starter gear sits on. At that moment, a scene replayed in my head of over a year ago when I took the engine case off to re-paint it. I remembered and noticed again that while this pivot/pin was in place on the spare engine when I tool my casing off of was firmly attached to the case. I then realised the whole problem. As this pin had come off with the case the washer/shim had nothing supporting it so had slipped out and into the bottom of the engine without me noticing. When I then hit the starter button, the gear moved sideways (more than it should have done and promptly jammed...hence not matter what I tried, I got a slight turn of the engine and then effectively seizure. Excited by this discovery I extracted the pin (with difficulty) from the engine case and assembled it again through the gear. I nervously hit the starter button...and it spun !!..I then rebolted the engine case, filled it up with oil, took a deep breath and..... STARTED IT !!!!!!!!!!!....................... I really didnt care that my whole garage was full of smoke.........it was alive and soundiing great !!!!!!!!! (maybe not according to my neighbours ) Incidentally, the "0.6" of a volt thing was it seems misleading as even now when I key the starter button it WILL momentarily show that on the meter as I guess that while the starter is drawing so much current it would show that as we are effectively opening the circuit. Even now when it starts immediately the meter still will drop to that value. I think that we would perhaps not notice it when the engine starts quickly. (Either that or it's a foible of this meter maybe ). So, that's what it was all along. 2 new starter motors, 2 new batteries, 1 wiring loom, 1 solenoid, and a spare engine later and all is well. It was simply down to a missing washer. Thanks for everyone's suggestions and help, they were all valid and I tried them all. This one it seems was down to carelessness and bad luck. Still, I HAVE learned a lot and hopefully this tale will help others even if they don't have exactly the same cause. So case-closed......and I have a load of perfectly good spare parts in the garage. Thanks again. Stu (new photo's will follow...I promise )

Thanks...I also hope I find it soon !! Hope you aren't getting bored with this one but it has been a strange journey. There aren't many things left to try as pretty much all of the "usual suspects" have now been covered. lets just hope I get a resolution soon and the lessons learned are helpful to someone else in the future. :lurk:

yes....I lay in bed last night thinking that that would be where I would try next.

OK guys...now I am completely and utterly stumped with no idea where to try next. For an update :The "new" starter (ebay ) arrived this morning. I looks in great condition and I am assured that it works OK (my feeling is to trust that ). Straight after work I headed into the garage, installed the starter and bolted it all back together....now for the moment of truth................................. the same. 0.6 of a volt on the meter, engine hardly moves. while the starter was off I did take the opportunity to meter from the connection (which was hanging free ) to the engine - 12v so no apparent problem there. I really cant understand why I should be getting what appears to be pretty much an "open circuit" just when the starter is in place. The insulating washers all appear OK (on both starters ). The cable is in good order with no breaks (see previous posts ).I'm prepared to believe that the engine itself may be very very stiff after such a long period of running...and I DO have another on stand-by just in case.... but it still doesn't explain the "0.6" of a volt question. Suggestions of course will be gratefully received ! My wife is getting jumpy about me spending so much time in the garage of late ( I think she thinks I have another woman living in there )! Thanks

yes....checked again and I get pretty much an open circuit when I hit the button. I took the lead off the starter and metered the end to earth when the start button is pressed and still 13v so it appears to be within the starter. I also stripped the starter again ands checked all of the insulating washers and all seems good. I guess I'll just have to wait to see what happens with the replacement. Even if it works I'd be interested to find the fault with this one (at least that way I'll have a working spare ).

yes....the LED says drops from 13v to 0.6..... sounds too strange to be true? I'll check it again first thing in the morning and take a pic. ...got me thinking now about why that should be. I'll put my meter on it too as a second check.

OK...next installment : I have ordered from e-bay a clean looking starter off an FL (I believe that is will fit ok on an FR ) for £10 + £10 postage. I've also ordered parts from CMS in Holland to service the original starter. I have recently fitted a voltmeter to the fairing and noticed today that when I thumb the starter the voltage drops from 13 to 0.6 of a volt. is this significant ? What figure is anyone else showing ? Thanks

just seen an honest looking starter on ebay for £10 ( at the moment ). it's for an FL model (is that 3rd gen )? . Am I right in assuming that the most of the changes between these models (mine is an early '94 FR - 4th gen ) were relatively superficial and that the starter would be the same ? if I can get it cheap it's got to be worth a go Thanks I agree, I reckon it's either the starter or a wire you've missed... God knows how many starters I've swapped out on old cars... like Rice says, with no load, and not in situ starters can appear to be just fine... the pistons move fine, you've demonstrated that, you've gone over the wiring thoroughly so unless you missed one it's the starter. You've cleaned up connections, lubricated the pistons, changed the battery... What about just taking it out into the street with a few mates and roll start her!!! I'll bet afterwards the starter behaves itself until randomly one day it decides to play up again... starters can short out rather easily right? I guess it must be too cold out, but since you've eliminated engine seizure or broken rods or such, I'd just roll start her... I'll bet she fires up with little hassle. Then you'll have eliminated a whole stack of other possible causes... I can roll start my VFRs on flat ground all by my lonesome, I don't imagine you'll have much trouble if you've a street with a downward slope (have trailer or van ready to get her back home if it doesn't work!!) Maybe that's too brutish an idea... :biggrin: but at least you'll know the engine works.

OK...thanks for the support. I have actually swapped out a rotor from an supposed "good" starter that I got on e-bay (the casing on the new one didnt look so good ) but I agree that it still leaves me with the old brushes (which incidentally looked OK ). I believe that I saw somewhere recently a new assembly with the brushes. I may search again for that or punt for another from ebay perhaps. Having said that I DID put some load on the starter by slowing it down with a piece of timber, although I realise that spinning the engine is far more load than that. it's a shame I dont have a friend nearby that has a VFR that I could nick the starter off for an hour to prove a few things. Would anyone know therefore if a starter from another bike would fit ? We are now at the stage that we are paying a premium for parts due to the age. If I can get a few mates around I might challenge them to push me down the road :-) I agree, I reckon it's either the starter or a wire you've missed... God knows how many starters I've swapped out on old cars... like Rice says, with no load, and not in situ starters can appear to be just fine... the pistons move fine, you've demonstrated that, you've gone over the wiring thoroughly so unless you missed one it's the starter. You've cleaned up connections, lubricated the pistons, changed the battery... What about just taking it out into the street with a few mates and roll start her!!! I'll bet afterwards the starter behaves itself until randomly one day it decides to play up again... starters can short out rather easily right? I guess it must be too cold out, but since you've eliminated engine seizure or broken rods or such, I'd just roll start her... I'll bet she fires up with little hassle. Then you'll have eliminated a whole stack of other possible causes... I can roll start my VFRs on flat ground all by my lonesome, I don't imagine you'll have much trouble if you've a street with a downward slope (have trailer or van ready to get her back home if it doesn't work!!) Maybe that's too brutish an idea... :biggrin: but at least you'll know the engine works.

Thanks for the replies guys. In answer : Yes, I have 2 batteries plus a Booster pack (a rechargeable portable battery used for starting cars) connecting them in parallel makes hardly any difference ( I even connected it via jump-leads to my running car )...same result so it's not the batteries. Yes, I have removed the plugs and turned it by hand (I dont have any actual info on how much torque there should be but it didn't really feel much different to turning the other engine I have sitting in the garage) I WILL experiment with this again tomorrow. The starter itself will spin very freely on the bench with no detriment to the battery. I even held a lump of wood against the spindle while it was spinning to simulate a load and it still spun freely (and carved a groove in the timber ). I may try a strange experiment : I am considering getting a long lead to connect to the solenoid and the starter and then mount the starter in the other engine (yes, I know that I will have to complete the circuit with another lead back to the bike's earth ) to see what effect it has in spinning another engine. Any other thoughts gladly received. thanks.

hmmmmm.....it seems that despite my initial excitement about getting the engine to turn i may have to resurrect this thread. I now know that "turning over and Turning Over" are 2 completely different things. To re-cap : Due to illness by bike sat for over a year in the garage without being touched. At Christmas I decided to get it in order and running again. after charging the battery the most I got when pressing the starter was an audible "clack" from the solenoid but no other action. . I had various routes to try so over a period of a couple of weeks this is what I have done : New battery - fully charged with Optimate 4 charger (plus connected my booster pack) New Solenoid Starter stripped and bench tested (all OK..it works great ) Starter lead from battery changed Complete new wiring loom Engine turned over with a wrench after a soak in the bores with WD40 (just in case there was seizure ) Earths points cleaned and remade After many hours of charging all of my batteries and hitting the starter button the engine will turn over maybe 3 times (slowly) and then the batteries appear to have lost the will. I can't seem to get it anywhere near enough to think about firing-up. So I'm running out of ideas now. My first thought was that maybe it had seized so I have another engine ready to try...although this really will be the last resort. Having said that it will move, both electrically and with the wrench. I can only think of one more thing and that is to short the solenoid points with a screwdriver to take the switch out of the equation...but after that I'm stumped (and despondent). It's not the clutch...the bike will roll in Neutral, it's not the side-stand switch..tried that. it's not fuel (I dont get that far ) It's quite simply that no matter what I try the engine will only slowly turn a couple of times. Any Ideas??...It's getting me down !! Everything else on the bike works OK. Thanks ** UPDATE ** It seems that I have a result !!! On Saturday I took a 5.5 hour round trip to collect the "spare" engine but had a dinner to go to when I got back so no chance of an immediate look. Anyway, Sunday (after a nice long alcohol induce lie-in ) I cleared a space in the garage and went to work : First I checked and re-checked all the connections. The batteries had been on charge overnight and a fresh dose of lube had been sitting in the barrels. Then I drained the oil, took off the engine case and took my torque wrench (it's a longer bar ) and fitted it to the bolt on the crank. With the bike in neutral I (carefully ) turned the crank. Now, I'm not sure if I felt initial "resistance" or not......but it turned (quite freely after I got my confidence with it ). now THAT was a big relief as it meant that maybe I wouldn't need that spare engine after-all ! I then re-connected the battery and tried again......success....the engine turned-over !!! I didn't actually "start" the bike yet (it's still in too many pieces for that ) but it seems like at least the main "problem" has been sorted. Unfortunately (for the sake of this page ) I don't know exactly which cure did the trick. It would be nice to report to you (for future benefit) exactly what it was but perhaps it was cumulative ? One thing I did note was that I was mistaken about the Kill-Switch. Yes, of course the engine WILL still turn in the "OFF" position, it just wont get a spark. And yes, the solenoid will "clack" ( and even squeek ) but not turn the starter when the battery is getting low on juice. As getting this main problem sorted yesterday didn't take too much time, I decided that to prevent possible problems in the future (and being as I already had it ) I would in fact fit that new wiring loom. Starting at the headlight and swapping old for new and following the route (cabling tying in the same places ) it's actually quite simple. the whole job only took a couple of hours and it's easy enough to do it to look the same as when it left the factory so if anyone has an old bike with the wring showing signs of corrosion then I would recommend this as a task. I WILL however take the advice given at some stage and swap the earth point from the engine to a good new one on the frame.The next stage will be to actually put most of it back together and see if it will fire-up (no real reason now for it not to ). I think that everyone of of the tips offered have been worth trying should anyone else have a similar problem, I just wish I could say for definite which one did the trick. I'm trying to decide now whether to put the other engine back on e-bay or to keep it for the future. I have a question now about "radiators" but will start a new thread for that one. Thanks again everyone. Stuart

I have just ordered a pack of blue LEDS to replace the clear bulbs in my instrument cluster on my 4th gen from superbrightleds. (not superbrightled it's a different site ) They fit and work perfectly and the shipping to the UK was super fast. I would (and will) use them again. (i'll post a pic when I put it all back together again ). http://superbrightleds.com/specs/bulb_specs.htm they are the WLED-B4 I'd be interested to know if anyone has successfully replaced the stop/turn signal bulbs as according to the site there is an issue with "brightness" and the fact that replacing the turn-signal bulbs may not work so well as they draw less power than a bulb so may not trigger the flasher unit. If you look at a LED tail-light on a newer bike there are quite a number of "bulbs" in there (which is probably how you get round the brightness issue )whereas we only have 2 to replace. Anyone got any actual experience as it's something I wouldn't mind doing too?

Great....thanks for that , it looks like it would fit the bill ! The sizes seem good and the fitting looks the same so I may well give it a go. The db Dawg looks an interesting device too. The only problem I can see with that solution for me though is that (here in the UK anyway ) none-approved silencers have "NOT FOR ROAD USE " stamped on the end-plate. If we get pulled-over by the law it's one of the first things they look for (it may as well say "Fine me I'm Illegal" ) ;-) so I'd still have to constantly swap the whole pipe over. I'm going to check the pipe out that you suggested though. Thanks again.

I have had for about 7 years a Micron Hi-level end section for my '94. I really liked it, but every time I rode the bike I got paranoid about the (fabulous) noise (the can is stamped with "NOT FOR ROAD USE" on the back and the police are a little fussy about such things around here). Many years back I contacted Micron and asked them if they did a "road legal" end-can that would fit on to this pipework and basically the answer was "no" so the whole thing languished under a bench in my garage. I'd really like to make use of this again with a new end-can, and being as Hi-level pipes for the '94 model are a. Very rare b. Very expensive I figured that as I have the most important part already (the actual "hi-level" part ) doing nothing in the garage finding a can somewhere would be the way to go. Would anyone have any idea if any other manufacturers can has an opening of 48mmm where the pipework enters ? I did think about finding someone who could make me a sleeve that steps up or down but I have no idea who would be able to do that (and of course I need the can dimensions anyway ). Mounting the pipe at the subframe end is easy enough as I still have the big circular whatsit that would go around a new can from the old one (it's adjustable) it's just the 48mm thing that's the problem. Thanks