How Many Fingers?

[CitizenOfDreams]

My, uhm, friend just signed up to the Basic Rider Course in order to get his motorcycle licence after 9 years of everyday commuting without one. Most safety techniques they teach agree with the street skills he has already developed - except for one. They insist on using all 4 fingers on the brake lever - which, in his opinion, affects the precise control of the throttle needed for smooth downshifting and is totally unnecessary with modern brake systems.

So, what is the reasoning behind the 4-finger technique? Is 2-fingering bad? If so, why are many motorcycle gloves made with index and middle fingers more flexible than the rest?

[alwaysaware]

So after finishing your course,,,, was it worth the money you paid? I mean your friend of course.

[leanit]

My, uhm, friend just signed up to the Basic Rider Course in order to get his motorcycle licence after 9 years of everyday commuting without one. Most safety techniques they teach agree with the street skills he has already developed - except for one. They insist on using all 4 fingers on the brake lever - which, in his opinion, affects the precise control of the throttle needed for smooth downshifting and is totally unnecessary with modern brake systems.

So, what is the reasoning behind the 4-finger technique? Is 2-fingering bad? If so, why are many motorcycle gloves made with index and middle fingers more flexible than the rest?

On my 919 I use two fingers. On my VFR, I use one. Four fingers? I dunno...I believe the MSF is a good foundation for any new rider but some things they teach just don't add up. JD :fing02:

[VFRedleg]

I just did the Experienced Course this past week with an instructor who's primarily a Harley guy. Yes, I got in trouble for two fingers covering the brake.

Acc. to him, MSF says 4 fingers because of the ummm..."poor quality" of the front brakes on some bikes and the need to bring the lever all the way back to the grip in order to get the full effect of the fronts.

Made sense to me, but I still cover the front w. two fingers.

[turtlecreek]

so that i can keep my hand on the brake for quicker reaction time, i only use 2 fingers, but leave them on ALL the time. i just put ebc pads in and find that for cornering...1 finger is just fine. i cant imagine how 4 fingers could be better as i can lock my front with 2.

[spud786]

My, uhm, friend just signed up to the Basic Rider Course in order to get his motorcycle licence after 9 years of everyday commuting without one. Most safety techniques they teach agree with the street skills he has already developed - except for one. They insist on using all 4 fingers on the brake lever - which, in his opinion, affects the precise control of the throttle needed for smooth downshifting and is totally unnecessary with modern brake systems.

So, what is the reasoning behind the 4-finger technique? Is 2-fingering bad? If so, why are many motorcycle gloves made with index and middle fingers more flexible than the rest?

From what I hear from some of the more sport oriented instructors, arent that critical on the 4 fingers.

[CitizenOfDreams]

So after finishing your course,,,, was it worth the money you paid? I mean your friend of course.

Here in Florida we don't really have a choice - Basic Rider Course is a requirement for anyone who wants to get the motorcycle endorsement. But I don't think it's a waste of money - it's fun, it teaches proper habits, and it includes all the required tests (after you complete the Rider Course, you just go to the DMV, hand them the certificate and get your endorsement).

[NorthernVFRDave]

In the class I took the reason for all fingers on deck was for new riders in a panic situation your less likely to roll on to the throttle as you pull harder on the brake leaver, because of the way your hand gets stretched out. Or so they told us.

I'm a 2 finger guy when solo riding but use all 4 when running 2 up. Just because you need a little more stopping power

[JETS]

Yeah, they say the same in all the courses, because the default is that many riders get on bikes that do not have two finger grab. Many older and heavier bikes need all four to bring the front braking action to sufficient to really do a serious stop. They said that what you practice is what you will do, so I just did what they said, knowing that my sportbikes really take two fingers and I leave my damn foot off the rear unless I specially want to touch it in a lefty or if I leave the pavement!!

All that said, Rossi uses four.

[Guest]

They told me the same thing when I took the MSF Experienced Rider Course a few years ago. I suppose if you have cable operated brakes it makes sense. But modern brakes are so good that two fingers is all you need to lock them up. I just nodded and played the 4 finger game the rest of the day. As soon as I got my card, I rode off with 2 fingers on the brake.

[TimC]

+1 on all the posts above. Took the Basic Rider Course last summer and was reminded several times to use all four fingers on the front brake lever. I usually use just the first two fingers so I can still control the throttle with the other two.

I think teaching newbs to use all four fingers is a good thing. Actuating the brake and throttle at the same time is a technique to learn along the way IMHO, not something new riders should start with.

[magellan]

so that i can keep my hand on the brake for quicker reaction time, i only use 2 fingers, but leave them on ALL the time. i just put ebc pads in and find that for cornering...1 finger is just fine. i cant imagine how 4 fingers could be better as i can lock my front with 2.

Using 4 fingers on the brake lever with modern supersport brakes (or a VFR with EBC HHs) is overkill and might even encourage you to tuck the front and lowside if you're careless at an apex. Four fingers makes me feel ham-fisted, so I prefer using one or two fingers.

[Stéphane]

4 fingers? I guess they teach with a slipper clutch, don't they? How about brake and blip?

To be honest, I don't believe modern sports bike need 4 fingers. . . you can and will(if abusive) lock the front wheel with 2 fingers on wet pavement, or with cold or hard tires.

On a cruiser it is a different story. A handful of front brakes will be need on some of them. So, I imagine it is a generalization that led to this line of thinking.

[CitizenOfDreams]

So, my friend... ah, who am I kidding? I completed the Basic Rider Course today. Got 6 penalty points in the riding test (minimum passing score is 20 points, national average is 15 points). One point for stopping distance, five points for braking while swerving.

The course has sure changed my opinion about my VFR. I thought it was an unsophisticated bike with a sloppy gearbox, less than ideal rider position, lack of smoothness at low RPMs... until I had the "pleasure" of riding the Blast, "Buell's best selling model to date".

[CitizenOfDreams]

How about brake and blip?

Blipping and braking can be done with four fingers, although it appears to be much easier with two. Either way, blipping is not a part of the Basic Course. Neither is downshifting while braking - well, yes, you are supposed to shift to 1st during the braking exercise, but not for the purpose of assisting the braking.

[keithbob]

I'm a 2 finger guy when solo riding but use all 4 when running 2 up. Just because you need a little more stopping power.

I use the EBC HH pads and now only use one or two fingers alone, and two when two-up and fully loaded with the bags on. Try 'em! Even on downhill twisties when traveling super-heavy, two fingers will give you all you need up front.

[Motor_Ref]

My, uhm, friend just signed up to the Basic Rider Course in order to get his motorcycle licence after 9 years of everyday commuting without one. Most safety techniques they teach agree with the street skills he has already developed - except for one. They insist on using all 4 fingers on the brake lever - which, in his opinion, affects the precise control of the throttle needed for smooth downshifting and is totally unnecessary with modern brake systems.

So, what is the reasoning behind the 4-finger technique?

Some of their instructors think that they are Marine drill instructors?

Is 2-fingering bad?

Not necessarily.

[Guest]

Hmm... I usually use my pinky finger to feather the brakes if I have to while still controlling the throttle with my index and middle finger and thumb. Actually get her a little "light" when I went into a right hander a little hot and, using only my pinky, got the rear to pick itself up a bit coming through the curve. A little pucker factor to say the least but had I had all four fingers on it or even the first two, I think I may have had a little more on my plate to deal with. Depends on what I anticipate. Stopping at a light will invoke a two finger + rear brake stop. And rear only in gravel or real slow.

[Guest]

Based on the really crappy honda 250 with drum brakes we had for the MSF BRC I could have used both hands on the front brake and it still wouldn't stop. I use four from my days of MTBing when four fingers might get you stopped!!!