M C Cruise With Led Brake Lights?

[Joe Foe from Buffalo]

Has anyone figured out how to get a M C Cruise Control to work with LED brake lights? I have been working with M C Cruise for about a month with no fix yet. In fact this is part of thier last reply "LED tail lights etc are making our life increasingly difficult. There is no guarantee we will be able to provide a solution"

http://www.mccruise.com

[Veefer800Canuck]

Wire in an additional incandescent bulb & bulb holder in line with the existing LED brake lights???

Put it under the seat where noone will see it when you brake?

[Joe Foe from Buffalo]

All ready thought of adding a hidden light. MC says this about that "The down side of this is that there will be an additional 2 amps of current drawn by the brake lights. If the bike already has two or more brake lights, this may risk blowing the brake circuit fuse, although this is not likely. It may shorten the life of the brake light switches due to the extra load"

[Joe Foe from Buffalo]

I should mention part of the confusion is I converted my Gen 4 1157 brake light bulbs with

1) Three S16 LED Hyper Lights (Non Flashing and mounted under my brake light lens) from this place.

http://www.hyperlites.com/unikits.html

2) Two 1157 Light Tower 2 LED's (to replace the two stock 1157 bulbs) from this place

http://superlumination.com/1156_1157.htm

If I put my stock 1157 bulbs back in the cruise works. Some how I need to make the cruise control think I still have the stock set up. I've been trying differnt size resistors with no luck yet.

[COS_VFR]

Do you have any info on how the MC cruise connects to the brake light circuit?

What kind of signal is it looking for?

Looking at the 4th gen wiring diagram, the front and rear brake switch is connected to 12V and it switches 12V to the bulb in the taillight. It couldn't be simpler. Unless voltage from the running lights is confusing the cruise control, but this would be there on an incandescent light bulb also.

[Joe Foe from Buffalo]

I'm not exactly sure of the values the MC is looking for at the brake lights...But I just sent them a email asking for exactly what it needs to work the way it use to. I do have sevral fixes they sent me in a PDF file I can email anyone but non worked with the way I have my bike set up. Email me @ joefoefrombuffalo >at< Yahoo.com FYI >at< needs to be changed to @ in my email address I do that to reduce spam.

[COS_VFR]

I have thought about this a little more. A normal tail light bulb has two filaments, so there should be no feedback from the voltage that powers the running light filament into the brake light circuit. A LED bulb could use separate LEDs for running lights and brake lights, or it could use two different resistors and just power the LEDs at a different brightness. If the LED bulb uses two different resistors, there would be some voltage feedback from the running lights into the brake circuit. This could trick the cruise control into thinking the brakes are on all the time. A diode in the brake light circuit between the LED bulb and the cruise sensor wire might block this voltage feedback.

[hondalover]

If the LED bulb uses two different resistors, there would be some voltage feedback from the running lights into the brake circuit. This could trick the cruise control into thinking the brakes are on all the time. A diode in the brake light circuit between the LED bulb and the cruise sensor wire might block this voltage feedback.

This sounds like it would work to me. Let us know how it turns out, as I'm intrested in the MC Cruise.

[Joe Foe from Buffalo]

Just a fast note before I'm off to work. Hondalover and others please contact MC Cruise and voice your concern on this problem. I have this problem posted other websites also that guys are helping with and guys that have mentioned they are considering getting one if this gets fixed and I have also told them to contact MC to show I'm not the only one to motovate MC to get a fix they know works. COS_VFR I will try to figure out your fix asap and try it if all goes well, thank you.

[Tightwad]

I have thought about this a little more. A normal tail light bulb has two filaments, so there should be no feedback from the voltage that powers the running light filament into the brake light circuit. A LED bulb could use separate LEDs for running lights and brake lights, or it could use two different resistors and just power the LEDs at a different brightness. If the LED bulb uses two different resistors, there would be some voltage feedback from the running lights into the brake circuit. This could trick the cruise control into thinking the brakes are on all the time. A diode in the brake light circuit between the LED bulb and the cruise sensor wire might block this voltage feedback.

But isn't it using the signal from the brake light, and thus blocking it will mean the Cruise Control is never disabled?

I would be interested in what function the brake light plays...obviously it is to shut the Cruise Off, but do they do it by sensing power from the brake light, or a resistance value to the power side.

With LED Turn signals, the Resistance needed isn't much, but it has to be a Load Resistor, not a regular one. Try a 50 Ohm Load Resistor from Radio shack?

[Joe Foe from Buffalo]

The cruise uses the brake light as a safety turn off when brakes are used. Same as when the clutch is used the cruise turns off. Also turns off when the rpm's go higher or lower then the cruise was set at. One of the fixes MC Cuise thougth would work I did try and doesn't does say to try a 50 watt 27 ohm resistor.

[COS_VFR]

I think that these drawings might help explain what I was talking about earlier:

LED taillight

This shows how I think a LED tail light is wired up compared to a normal bulb. When the running lights are on and the brake is off, on a normal bulb there is no voltage present at the Brake light terminal of the bulb. However, there will be a voltage present at the brake light terminal on the LED taillight. It might not make sense, but it has to do with impedance and lack of current flow.

Now look at this drawing:

LED Taillight 2

Note that these resistors are already present inside the LED 'bulb'. The addition of a diode should block any voltage from the running light side of the circuit from triggering the cruise control. The diode will cause a small voltage drop and could dim your brake light. I have not tested this so it is just a theory at this time. YMMV

[Dead Stiff]

I am having trouble installing an Audiovox CCS-100 on my bike too. I also have led tail lights.

I talked to the tech department and they told me to ground the wire that senses the brake light.

Here is a thought. When a normal filament bulb isn't active it is referenced to ground though the filament.

With a led tail light it will not conduct until a certain voltage is reached, so it will not ground the sense wire.

So if you were to use a relay that when closed grounded the sense wire and when the brake is active switch it to 12v all should be good.

[Veefer Madness]

I think that these drawings might help explain what I was talking about earlier:

LED taillight

This shows how I think a LED tail light is wired up compared to a normal bulb. When the running lights are on and the brake is off, on a normal bulb there is no voltage present at the Brake light terminal of the bulb. However, there will be a voltage present at the brake light terminal on the LED taillight. It might not make sense, but it has to do with impedance and lack of current flow.

Now look at this drawing:

LED Taillight 2

Note that these resistors are already present inside the LED 'bulb'. The addition of a diode should block any voltage from the running light side of the circuit from triggering the cruise control. The diode will cause a small voltage drop and could dim your brake light. I have not tested this so it is just a theory at this time. YMMV

You know, those are really nice pictures! :goofy:

But now that I think of it, it all makes sense... I've been trying to hook up a flashing sequencer to my rear led brake lights and I have a MC Cruise still in the box.

There is always current to the whole led, when you apply the brakes, all the same leds just get brighter.

Ergo, if there's always current, ipsofakto, the cruise doesn't 'see' the brake? :beer:

Maybe that's why when I ordered 7440 units for the rear signals, they came as 7443's :goofy: it's the power that's coming to them that matters.

Not sure how/where I would fix that... maybe an independently wired led/relay (concealed somewhere to do the job)?

Can't use an incandescent though.

Ask Enzed Viffer in Noo Zedland, His signature gives me 'high' confidence... ya, dat's it. :thumbsup:

[Joe Foe from Buffalo]

FYI I asked MC Cruise to check to see what they think of this idea and if it will work. They have not got back to me going on two days now. Veefer Madness and others concerned PLEASE contact MC cruise also to possibly get a reply/fix @ mcsetup@bigpond.net.au

[COS_VFR]

The issues that I see with adding the diode in series the way I have drawn it up above are:

1. You have to cut the the brake wire and put the diode in series.

b. The diode will have a voltage drop (approximately .5V - .7 V) and this will make your brake lights slightly dimmer.

iii. If the diode is sized to handle the load of your LED brake, and your go back to normal bulbs,

the diode will probably burn out llike an undersized fuse and leave you without brake lights until you return the wiring to normal.

Perhaps a relay could be used, but there is still the posibility that a there would be enough voltage coming from the running light circuit to trigger the relay. A relay solution might work for with one type of LED taillight, but not work with all types of LED taillights.