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Zarquon

6th gear noise on 5th Generation

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My 5th generation is making a chattering noise in 6th gear (it sounds abit like the chain needs lube or is too tight). Its most noticable bellow 4000rpm and goes away above 5500rpm. To begin with I thought it was engine pinging because it gets louder as I roll on the power (changing RON fuel does not eliminate the noise though). I first noticed the sound about 6000km ago and the chatter noise is getting louder over time. The bike has only 51,000kms on it  (I have put the last 15000km on it and have been oil changing every 5000k's). I get no chattering in any other gear.

 

I'm wondering if its a bloody bearing in the gear box and a big engine job to fix it?

 

So if anyone else has experience with 6th gear problems on their 5th Generation bikes could you please let me know.

 

Cheers

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What is the state of your chain?

Would experiment with its tension then test ride. Too tight, too loose, lack of lubrication, worn out can all create strange effects and noises. 

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4 hours ago, Grum said:

What is the state of your chain?

Would experiment with its tension then test ride. Too tight, too loose, lack of lubrication, worn out can all create strange effects and noises. 

Will look at this first. I know the lube was good, I did it 200km ago I thought tension was good too at the time. I get more noise with a pillion... chain might be tightening with extra weight... but why only in top gear?

 

I was down in Woolongong for the bikes at the weekend and contemplated a 200k ride home with no 6th gear?

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Thinking out loud (so don't give too much credit to it), the 6 gearsets ride on 2 parallel shafts, so a bearing problem would seem likely to affect each gearset equally vs only one.  It seems possible though that the 6th gear pair could have an issue of some sort, but unless abused dont often develop problems..  Typically I don't engage 6th until closer to 6,000 rpm which brings it to the 5,000 rpm area. I'd only be running 4,000 in 6th if going downhill and I'm too lazy to shift.   It doesn't seem to like trying to put lots of torque through at lower rpm - even accelerating in 3rd or 4th from 3,000 rpm or so.  If it turns out not to be the chain / sprockets  (mite be worth a look at the front sprocket as well to rule that out), then maybe it is a gearbox problem. If so, a teardown is probably not the best approach.  Splitting the cases is a daunting project that could possibly be stalled by parts availability and it could be difficult to find a shop that will undertake that on a 20 year old bike.  It's probably more economical to find a used unit and swap motors vs trying to rebuild what you have.  Hopefully the chain / sprockets is the cure. 

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I’d be surprised if it is not your chain and sprockets.  6th gear low rpms accentuates the issue because of the power pulses from the syncopated firing order engine.  That, plus tight and loose sections of chain can give weird sounds.   If you hear hoof beats think horses not zebras (unless your in Africa!). How many km on your chain and sprockets?

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I think thats where I need to go with this. Tinker with the chain and sprocket and if that doesn't help find a replacement engine to swap in when or if this one breaks.

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Go with a new chain and sprockets set... especially, if you don’t know how old the current ones are

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1 minute ago, Rush2112 said:

I’d be surprised if it is not your chain and sprockets.  6th gear low rpms accentuates the issue because of the power pulses from the syncopated firing order engine.  That, plus tight and loose sections of chain can give weird sounds.   If you hear hoof beats think horses not zebras (unless your in Africa!). How many km on your chain and sprockets?

Whould be at least 15000km on the chain and sprocket. I know the previous owner re geared the bike because the speedo was out

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5th gen motors and gear boxes are practically bullet proof. The PO might have changed the gears and not the chain. Go with a new set of chain and gears and you’ll be happy. They are maintenance items and they wear out...

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1 minute ago, Rush2112 said:

5th gen motors and gear boxes are practically bullet proof. The PO might have changed the gears and not the chain. Go with a new set of chain and gears and you’ll be happy. They are maintenance items and they wear out...

Gotcha. Now I have a plan. Thanks all for your input. I will post a follow up outcome.

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I finally got the chance to ride today, with a slightly looser chain adustment. The noise is still there but I think it cuts out at a lower rpm now. It sounds like the chain and kind of has a lugging engine beat to it.

 

I enjoyed a good ride anyway!

 

The front sprocket is warn but servicable, the rear is fine, chain looks well used. I want to change out the chain and sprockets but keep the lower gearing that I have (with a 16 tooth at the front).

 

Does any one know if a 6th gen rear sprocket will fit a 5th gen wheel? I can save a dollar buying parts as a kit if it does.

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4 hours ago, Zarquon said:

 

 

Does any one know if a 6th gen rear sprocket will fit a 5th gen wheel? I can save a dollar buying parts as a kit if it does.

Doesn't look like it; the mounting bolt diameter is larger on the 6th gen 10mm vs 8mm on the 5th gen. 

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36 minutes ago, Terry said:

Doesn't look like it; the mounting bolt diameter is larger on the 6th gen 10mm vs 8mm on the 5th gen. 

Thanks Terry

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10 hours ago, Zarquon said:

I finally got the chance to ride today, with a slightly looser chain adustment. The noise is still there but I think it cuts out at a lower rpm now. It sounds like the chain and kind of has a lugging engine beat to it.

 

I enjoyed a good ride anyway!

 

The front sprocket is warn but servicable, the rear is fine, chain looks well used. I want to change out the chain and sprockets but keep the lower gearing that I have (with a 16 tooth at the front).

 

Does any one know if a 6th gen rear sprocket will fit a 5th gen wheel? I can save a dollar buying parts as a kit if it does.

The front sprocket is interchangeable between 5th & 6th gens.  IIRC, the 5th is a 17 teeth front and the 6th is 16 teeth, both bikes have same number of rear sprocket teeth (43t).  Switching to the 6th gen front sprocket is common 5th gen mod to give better acceleration because of the gear ratio change.  I advise replacing both front and rear sprockets when you install a new chain to get the best results and longest life from the chain.

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