CDaltanian Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 Hey Guys, I'm hoping to order the necessary parts to fix my bike shortly, but figured I might consult those with more experience first as this is the first electrical issue I have truly attempted to troubleshoot. I have tried to narrow things down from the numerous other threads posted relating to the issue, but additional input would be great. My bike is a new to me (2 months) 2003 VFR800 with a PC3 and Two Bros exhaust with 25k miles. The harness recall has been done by the previous owner. I rode the bike nearly every day roughly 50 miles round trip for about the past two months, but last week it would barely start on the way to work. Upon leaving to go home at the end of the day, it was dead. I got a jump from a co-worker (car off) and proceeded to hurry home. It died on me 3 separate times, but fortunately I was moving fast enough to bump start each time. The fist time it died, I had only been riding about 5 minutes. If I kept the RPM's up, it seemed to run decently. I proceeded to charge the battery on a tender and test it. Right after pulling it off the bike, it was at 10.26V. By morning it seemed ok as it charged up to 13.1V and when reconnecting the tender, would jump up to 14.4V before settling back down to 13.1V. After leaving it unplugged all day, it dropped to about 12.96V and held steady there for the rest of the night. I had it tested by a local auto parts store and they confirmed it was fully charged and seemed to be in good health. I started to go through "The Drill" and first suspected the stator. The resistance between all the phases was consistent at 0.7 ohm's and they all had no continuity when each was tested to ground, so that seems to check out. I then checked each phase's AC voltage and got 19-20 at idle for each one and then around 60 when revved to 5k or so. So that test seemed to indicate thestator was ok as well. I then began to suspect the R/R and moved to check the voltage of the battery. At rest with the key off, it read 12.91V. With the key on, it dropped to around 12.3V, and after starting the bike and letting it idle, it would hang around 12.2V. When I would rev the bike, the voltage would drop across the terminals. At 4k rpm's, I read 12.16V. This would indicate a R/R issue correct? I know you can check the diodes to be certain, but the fact that the voltage at idle is lower than what it should be (14V ish) and with the stator seeming to check out, this would lead me to think it's the R/R. However, as many indicate the problem is much less of an issue with the 6th gens compared to the 5th, I thought I'd double check. Any insight would be much appreciated. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mello dude Posted July 24, 2017 Member Contributer Share Posted July 24, 2017 Yeah -- It does seem to be pointing at the R/R, I look at the R/R as 1 or 0. Go to www.roadstercycle.com for a new one. FH020aa..... ---- 6th gen? I have a mounting kit for that. I do have a itch of a concern that the battery at one point was 10.26v. If it sits a few days and V drops down, well the battery may need to be replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDaltanian Posted July 24, 2017 Author Share Posted July 24, 2017 I appreciate the reply Mello. I went ahead and ordered the newer SH847 from Jack, who was great in trying to sort everything out. I might to get creative with the mounting, but I figured the benefits of a series type regulator might help preserve the stator. It seems that most here have accepted that it's another regular wear type item that should be replaced every 30k-50k miles. As my bike has only 25k, I'm really hoping not to have to touch it until at least next riding season. I will keep an eye on the battery. After running some tests yesterday and letting it sit uncharged overnight, it measured in at 12.82V, so I'm hoping it's ok. I believe thing that might be accelerating failure of the stator and/or connection is the fact that it is so close to the coolant line. When I first opened mine up, I thought I had an easy diagnosis of a cooked stator as the connector cover was slightly burnt. Upon further inspection though, the connector appeared to be in good shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mello dude Posted July 25, 2017 Member Contributer Share Posted July 25, 2017 Let us know how your mounting of the SH847 goes, it is quite larger than the stock size. I just did my own r&r and would have used the SH847, but I didn't want to invent a mounting for now. Btw- thanks for the clear "drill" report on what is going on. Many guys just do half the test and I can't help with a partial test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marriedman Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 11 hours ago, mello dude said: I just did my own r&r and would have used the SH847, but I didn't want to invent a mounting for now. You had to redo your R/R?! I thought you had that thing done years ago. Or did you just finally redo the wiring like you were talking about in my garage when we did my 5th gen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mello dude Posted July 25, 2017 Member Contributer Share Posted July 25, 2017 I was running a Compufire R/R, I liked it, but it finally gave up... So I installed a new FH020AA and rewired.. (plus a few hundred other things..) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marriedman Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Now swap out that cam! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDaltanian Posted July 27, 2017 Author Share Posted July 27, 2017 Just for clarification, in testing the resistance between all the phases and ground, I get nothing when I touch the frame or the engine case. However, when touching the bolts of the case, I do get a reading. Which ground location is correct? Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mello dude Posted July 27, 2017 Member Contributer Share Posted July 27, 2017 Engine bolts, frame shouldn't matter. You could check with resistance, one on a bolt the other to frame. Near zero resistance, earth is earth. But if you must ask, then go with the frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted July 27, 2017 Member Contributer Share Posted July 27, 2017 4 hours ago, CDaltanian said: Just for clarification, in testing the resistance between all the phases and ground, I get nothing when I touch the frame or the engine case. However, when touching the bolts of the case, I do get a reading. Which ground location is correct? Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk You may find that using anodised surfaces like engine covers or any components that may have an anti corrosion coating on etc. not good a ground reference, bolts are generally ok. If you have any doubt simply measure your Stator Leads with reference to the battery Negative terminal. If you then have a low Ohms reading your Stator is cooked. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDaltanian Posted July 27, 2017 Author Share Posted July 27, 2017 In rechecking, I get a reading if I ground each phase to the negative battery terminal, but not when I ground to the frame. The reading from the negative terminal and each phase matches that of the readings between each phase a-b, a-c, and b-c in the other resistance test. Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer airwalk Posted July 27, 2017 Member Contributer Share Posted July 27, 2017 There shouldn't B any reading for conductivity from phases to ground, 0.00, zilch, nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted July 27, 2017 Member Contributer Share Posted July 27, 2017 9 hours ago, CDaltanian said: In rechecking, I get a reading if I ground each phase to the negative battery terminal, but not when I ground to the frame. The reading from the negative terminal and each phase matches that of the readings between each phase a-b, a-c, and b-c in the other resistance test. Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk Any low reading from the winding to ground = Shorted Stator its cooked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDaltanian Posted July 27, 2017 Author Share Posted July 27, 2017 I understand the principle, but came across this today that I'm going to look into further, considering I have a cheaper multimeter that might not zero. It was on one of many threads I've read in trying to diagnose my problem. "Select the resistance (Ohms or Ω) range on your multimeter and touch the two probe ends together. The readout on the multimeter will give you the effective zero reading - so if there is a value shown and your multimeter cannot be zeroed - as many cheaper ones can't be, you'll have to deduct this number from any further measurement." I understand it's supposed to be 0 or nothing, but after I double check with this test, I'm hoping it does indeed equal 0.. Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted July 28, 2017 Member Contributer Share Posted July 28, 2017 There is no relevance in an accurate reading in this situation. If you are just measuring a lowish ohmic reading to ground - the stator is Stuffed. Which also could mean there may be nothing wrong with your R/R . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDaltanian Posted July 28, 2017 Author Share Posted July 28, 2017 There is no relevance in an accurate reading in this situation. If you are just measuring a lowish ohmic reading to ground - the stator is Stuffed. Which also could mean there may be nothing wrong with your R/R . You are correct. I rechecked again and it would appear that the stator passes 2 of the 3 tests, but fails regarding the reading to ground. I might just replace the R/R and see what the results are, but the stator will likely need replaced. With that said, the R/R did not appear to be properly regulating the voltage from the stator. I had the proper AC output from each phase both at idle and 5k rpm's, but when revved the battery voltage would drop. Does anyone foresee an issue or could I potentially damage the new R/R without replacing the stator? I appreciate everyone's input Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted July 28, 2017 Member Contributer Share Posted July 28, 2017 On 28/07/2017 at 1:18 PM, CDaltanian said: You are correct. I rechecked again and it would appear that the stator passes 2 of the 3 tests, but fails regarding the reading to ground. I might just replace the R/R and see what the results are, but the stator will likely need replaced. With that said, the R/R did not appear to be properly regulating the voltage from the stator. I had the proper AC output from each phase both at idle and 5k rpm's, but when revved the battery voltage would drop. Does anyone foresee an issue or could I potentially damage the new R/R without replacing the stator? I appreciate everyone's input Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk Don't just replace the R/R. Your Stator IS stuffed!!! It doesn't produce the right open circuit AC Volts and its shorted to ground!! This is a very common fault Many 6th gen owners have experienced this. Your R/R will not be able to regulate as it is not receiving the correct voltage and capacity from the stator as its energy is mostly being shunted to ground instead of to the R/R. Here are some static Ohm readings I've taken on a NEW R/R, you could compare them to yours. Two Green Wires = 0 ohms to each other. (shorted) Two Red/White Wires = 0 ohms to each other. (shorted) Meter Set To Diode Range. Reds to Greens = Approx 1.18 (Red meter lead to Green Wires) Black Wire appears to have No connection Yellow 3phase wires have No connection to each other Yellow 3phase wires measure like a diode to the Green Wires (red meter lead to Green wires) Yellow 3phase wires measure like a diode to the Red Wires (black meter lead to Red wires) Assume the OEM R/R is Part No. 31600-MCW-D61 ?? If your R/R measures as per above there is a good chance your only issue is a Shorted Stator. Good Luck. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer KevCarver Posted July 28, 2017 Member Contributer Share Posted July 28, 2017 There are videos on the R/R testing procedure on RoadsterCycle.com website. I found them very helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDaltanian Posted July 29, 2017 Author Share Posted July 29, 2017 I ended up checking the stator and it does look pretty crispy...I packed it up and mailed it off to Custom Rewind this morning. I'm hoping to install both the new SH847 and new stator next week. Thank you again everyone for the help. I'll keep everyone updated. On a side note, doing away with the plugs and directly wiring everything is thought to improve longevity correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mello dude Posted July 29, 2017 Member Contributer Share Posted July 29, 2017 If you are redoing your stator with custom rewind, ask for extra long leads (mbe 30 inch, cut to length), so you can crimp the leads direct to the R/R connector in the kit you will recieve. So this way, there will be zero interim middle connect to worry about to fail... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDaltanian Posted July 29, 2017 Author Share Posted July 29, 2017 48 minutes ago, mello dude said: If you are redoing your stator with custom rewind, ask for extra long leads (mbe 30 inch, cut to length), so you can crimp the leads direct to the R/R connector in the kit you will recieve. So this way, there will be zero interim middle connect to worry about to fail... They might be giving me one off of the shelf that they had previously redone, but I'll ask. If I have extra long leads from the regulator and rectifier for the stator plug, that should accomplish the same thing correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mello dude Posted July 30, 2017 Member Contributer Share Posted July 30, 2017 4 hours ago, CDaltanian said: If I have extra long leads from the regulator and rectifier for the stator plug, that should accomplish the same thing correct? Nope. I admit I do my own crimping and wiring. But waht I am refering to is. OK stock stator has the leads, then a connector. Then the stock R/R has the connector that goes to the stator, then the leads direct to the R/R/. ---- Ok the Rewind stator can have any length you want, connector or no. (skip) .... So if you get the length of the leads long enuff that now reach the R/R, you can crimp direct to the Connector kit parts, thus eliminating any stator to R/R interim connector. (That's how I would do it) -- A small detail, but from the site, Jack sells the R/R kit with the stator connector with leads already attached and that is prolly fine anyhow. - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duccmann Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 SH847Having issues, battery is flat. Tested before charging last night 12.36 --hope it's just my battery at 3 years old.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDaltanian Posted August 14, 2017 Author Share Posted August 14, 2017 Update:I finished installing both the new SH847, Custom Rewind stator, and voltmeter this weekend. Preliminary results look good. After starting the bike the voltage rises within about 10 seconds from 12.9 volts up to 14.4 volts and holds steady at 14.4 volts at idle. I copied duccman's r/r mounting spot and soldered everything. The bike seems to run and ride fine and regularly checking the voltmeter while riding reveals a steady 14.4V. I have out about 10 miles on the bike, but I'm hopeful everything has been resolved. Thank you everyone for the help and input. Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marriedman Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Fascinating mounting location. Let us know how it works out after a year or so. I think it is very clever! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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