WestOfBen Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Regarding brakes, the only change I will make in the future is braided lines. That said, with decent pads and fluid I don't feel the need for better stoppers. She will stand on her nose no problem now. I can't recommend reworked stock suspension enough. Fork flex, yeah it happens. You're not a heavy person. To be honest, if you're going to be punting this thing around a track real hard, then of course you're going to be better off with a different front end. On the road I don't sense massive flex. Part of the charm of this model VFR is how they work at speed. In standard form they can wallow a bit. After I had mine worked over, it was a big improvement. I love the fact that I can go 8/10ths over Australia's sometimes cruddy roads and she doesn't want to buck me off. Ripples and bumps are smoothed over and I am not fighting her in the process. Not saying well sorted modern springers won't do that. My final words are an encouragement to you to do an honest assessment of the type of riding you will be doing on a 21yo motorcycle. Just happens to be a 21yo motorcycle that typically rides like something at least 10 years younger, but that's not the point. These bikes will get you from A to B most of the time just as quick as a modern sports bike in average conditions in a riding group, in greater comfort, with a very healthy dose of character. They have their limitations, even with modern gear thrown at them. I don't pussy-foot around and most of the time I don't ever feel as though I am stepping over the boundaries of the bike. I have tested the limits a couple of times and ruffled her feathers, but I was being intentionally stupid, like really throwing down the anchors in Healesville switchbacks, back wheel just weaving a bit and chattering, throwing her into the corner and getting on the power hard and early, all with around 7-8000rpm on the dial. Really she did pretty well considering I wasn't being smooth. It was a rush, but it required some effort because it could have gone a bit pear shaped. I couldn't have done the same with the standard suspension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zRoYz Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 I will just make a comment on rebuilding the 4th gen forks that have decent mileage on them, the internal cartridge stem seal will be worn out which means the oil bypasses the valving which isn't a good thing. That particular seal isn't replaceable you either have to buy new cartridge or see if a suspension tech can modify to make seal replaceable. The problem is the valving is adjusted to compensate which isn't such a good solution as you lose response. It doesn't take rocket science to know the 4th gen forks flex which in turn wears the seal & as it's not replaceable, high mileage the seal will be toast. If you don't believe a upgraded front end with stiffer forks that have remote adjustment rebound/compression & better brakes isn't an improvement over stock you need to ride one with those mods & you will be collecting the parts to do yours the very next day. It's like saying the stock RSV4 handles just as good as the Ohlins equipped factory. I promise you'd be no faster on your VFR with a CBR/whatever front end than you would be on my Maxton rejigged front end. It's night and day, I have two VFR's so can compare back to back. I guarantee I would be faster on my CBR front end, the better radial brakes alone is one advantage. I actually have Ohlins CBR forks on my 6th gen at the moment, I have also had re-gigged standard forks, RC51 & R1 every fork upgrade has been an improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Posted December 22, 2015 Author Share Posted December 22, 2015 My bad, I should have known this would be a hot topic here! I also have quite obviously ill-phrased my request for info. Yes the bike is 21 years old, yes i like to push it like a trackbike. I ALSO like to tour fully loaded with the missus, hard bags and topbox as well, so there is quite a few demands here. I am under no illusions as to how worn out my forks are, and the rotors are also in urgent need of replacement, so a fork swap with nicer brakes is the obvious thing for me to look at. I have NO real need of USD, nor radial brakes, as I well know my limits, and simply do not ride fast enough on the road to need them, nor have I done a track day for ten years. So in all honesty, the F4i option looks ideal for me, as it includes a brake upgrade, and has the adaptability i need for vastly different loads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zRoYz Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Yep just to be very clear we are all different, there are many things in this world that aren't required but nice to have. One point I will make if you haven't say ridden a VFR set up say like mine then you have zero idea the difference so comments standard reworked forks can be set up to match the same performance are from ignorance. It's like saying some food is yuk without tasting it. Are the CBR Ohlins forks on my VFR a little overkill probably but honestly the feel, confidence & extra safety due to maximum road response there worth every cent to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Posted December 22, 2015 Author Share Posted December 22, 2015 hey, how did you know that Sandra doesn't like Thai but has never tasted it in her life?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted December 22, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted December 22, 2015 Or the Pope having things to say about sex before marriage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryker Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 I have the DMr cartridge kit on my 4th gen Big improvement, friend of mine had a USD fork on his, can't remember from which bike, he sold the bike last year. But anyway, the USD was even better. So do what you want, don't let people tell you what to do to your bike Gather the information you need and make up your mind, it is your bike. If everybody was thinking, nah it isn't worth it,there wouldn't be anybody out there making these bikes even better.Good luck!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
750 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 a little overkill probably but honestly the feel, confidence & extra safety due to maximum road response there worth every cent to me. Psychological ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zRoYz Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 a little overkill probably but honestly the feel, confidence & extra safety due to maximum road response there worth every cent to me. Psychological ;) Riding a bike has that element :-) I'm also a 4th gen fanboy, in my opinion the best VFR built & was the most fun track bike I ever had. Age means nothing when the frame & engine is so good & when you upgrade the suspension with a front end swap with better brakes it will match any new bike available with same weight. All my track bike had was 6th gen rear shock, forks, rear wheel (6th gen forks just has link brake master cylinder sealed off). Just the stiffer front end with better brakes improved the bike 100%. This is my track bike converted back to road bike with F4i front end Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
750 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Was it much work bolting in the 6th gen front end out of interest? I'm guessing the length/rake & offset aren't a million miles off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestOfBen Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Yep just to be very clear we are all different, there are many things in this world that aren't required but nice to have. One point I will make if you haven't say ridden a VFR set up say like mine then you have zero idea the difference so comments standard reworked forks can be set up to match the same performance are from ignorance. It's like saying some food is yuk without tasting it. Just to be clear, I never claimed this. My claim was about $for$ and 90% of road riding, reworked standard suspension is great. In the future I would love to have another 4th gen and go with modern USD forks etc. I can then have the best of both worlds and hopefully keep my current bike as close to mint as possible, while still riding regularly. It's all about balancing that triangle isn't it. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zRoYz Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Was it much work bolting in the 6th gen front end out of interest? I'm guessing the length/rake & offset aren't a million miles off? The 6th gen front end keeps the same length/rake/trail as the standard 4th gen forks the triple offset is same 40mm, it is direct bolt on but the problem is the 6th gen LHS fork with the link brake master cylinder & linkage, so really not a swap worth doing on a road bike. For track didn't mater it looked odd & to stop the link brake master cylinder moving the calliper I just sealed off the ports so wouldn't move. So really it was a doggy install using parts I had lying around spare, you could have a bkt machined up to remove the LHS fork link brake master cylinder & linkage but would still look odd & most like our road bikes to look bling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Posted December 23, 2015 Author Share Posted December 23, 2015 Thanks to all the great info here I am going F4i and am now hunting about for the bits to do so. Reasoning for me is I know my forks will be worn out, and the F4i will give me the adjustabilty I need, a little less flex and a brake upgrade as well, that is bolton without changing any geometry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zRoYz Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Trev just remember to factor in F4i fork rebuild to suit you & VFR before install, also unknown age seais/oil best to start new service record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Posted December 23, 2015 Author Share Posted December 23, 2015 Yeah I will pull the penske out and get it serviced at the same time, is Zeno still in operation, or is there anywhere else in Sydney you recommend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Posted January 15, 2016 Author Share Posted January 15, 2016 Ok, so an unexpectedly broken ankle has forced an unplanned hiatus from the bike, what to do? I know, buy lots of bits! Secured so far. 03 F4i Forks. F4i Front Guard 02 VFR 800 triples. I'm planning on a 5/6th gen front wheel so unsure what axle i need the f4i, or the 800, or it doesn't matter? Also a bit confused on brakes, do the F4i/929 rotors bolt straight onto the 800 wheel? Pretty sure I will buy vfr800 helibars for clipons, as I love my current ones, but also unsure which model now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zRoYz Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 The 5/6th gen wheel is correct due to bearing size as the 4th gen wheel uses a smaller bearing, the 5/6th gen rotors work fine or any rotor that matches there profile. Helibars if you want them again 5/6th gen work or any really with same tube clamping diameter. Brake callipers you can use F4i, RC51, CBR929, CBR 954 there all the same & there would be others as well so plenty of them around, you want a F4i master cylinder mainly to suit the clutch master already on the bike. Axle you want F4i & F4i spacers, the 5/6th gen will work but from memory the F4i axle is just a little longer but can't 100% remember but there dia is same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Posted January 16, 2016 Author Share Posted January 16, 2016 Thanks, just picked up F4i Master + Calipers, seems like F4i or 800 rotors are identical, least the part numbers match on many sites. I was thinking new rotors perhaps, maybe EBC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JZH Posted January 16, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted January 16, 2016 Broke my ankle a couple of years ago--it's a bummer, dude. 5th-6th gen wheels are dime-a-dozen (I have at least two I could give you if you lived a bit closer!), and they more or less match the 750 rear wheel. Well, better than a 929 3-spoke would, methinks! The triple clamps affect the fork-spacing, so they dictate which axle, wheel and rotors you can use (w/o adapters). My data suggests that the '03 F4i rotors have a 296mm OD, 94mm ID and a 12.5mm offset. I believe '02 VFR800 VTEC rotors are 296mm OD, 62mm ID and 17mm offset. The OD is the same, and the ID and offset of the VTEC discs matches the VTEC wheel. Other 296x62x17 rotors include the CBR600FX-Y, VFR400RK-N, VFR800FiW-1 and CBR900RRN-P. Because the fork spacing on the VTEC and the F4i are both 204mm, the axles should be the same length (unless one has two pinch bolts and the other one, which can affect length). The bearings are different, but the axles are both 20mm OD. I don't know if the F4i front mudguard uses the same mounting locations as the VTEC--you might be better off with the VTEC mudguard. The F4i master cylinder will be the best match for the F4i calipers (though others will fit). If you use different calipers, you need to pay attention to the master cylinder size, which can vary from 14mm up to 3/4". Ciao, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Posted January 16, 2016 Author Share Posted January 16, 2016 That data matches what I'm seeing while rotor shopping, I suspect some vendors are just confusing their cbr600's. I bought the matching set of master cyclinder and calipers of a f4i last night so they should be good. The f4i guard is a new replica from china, hopefully it fits the f4i forks close enough. Interesting about the wheels, long term plan is to replace the rear with a gen5 wheel as well so they match, and i have better tyre options than just the 170. Also if you need more space in the garage happy to pay postage + costs etc to help, with say the removal of said wheel. :-) These are the rotors I'm looking at, they list three CBR600's though. In another post here it was said to order the 99-00 F4 ones. https://www.motomummy.com/rotors/ebc-x-series-rotors-set/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JZH Posted January 17, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted January 17, 2016 (Ignore the line above about the mudguard--don't know what I was thinking--the F4i mudguard (even aftermarket) should be perfect on F4i forks.) I don't like EBC rotors because they are a bit ugly, but others seem to think they are actually not well made... CBR600F4i X-Y is 99-00. The letter codes are explained in a table here. (Ignore my joke about post-2013 model years.) I also have at least one VFR800 rear wheel, but in my previous experience shipping wheels around the planet is really not worth the cost (or the hassle of getting the tyres taken off). Also, having never used said wheels myself (all eBay finds), I cannot even vouch for their being undamaged... Ciao, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Posted January 17, 2016 Author Share Posted January 17, 2016 Oh ok, well seeing as you could write everything i know about rotors using a thumbnail dipped in tar, are there any people DO recommend? I guess I would be ok with 2nd hand 800 ones, but given i have had worn out rotors for years buying a new set now wouldn't hurt. Happily I have someone nearby with a tyre machine, so that will help when the time comes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Posted January 26, 2016 Author Share Posted January 26, 2016 $1150AUD later I now have everything required for the F4i swap. Just a matter of waiting for bits to arrive, get the suspenders done, and then assemble. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Posted June 8, 2016 Author Share Posted June 8, 2016 So ran into a few issues, like CBR600RR forks delivered instead of F4i ones, and some idiot selling me 5th gen triples as VTEC ones. Â Now have the right forks, and the right triples on the way, so can finally price out the parts properly. All prices are AUD Â Forks: $340 Triples: $250 (paid $50 for the wrong ones) 5th gen wheel (with Rotors): $250 F4i Master and Calipers: $175 Shorty Levers (2 sets): $60 5th gen axle complete: $20 F4i Front Guard: $70 43mm Adjustable Clipons: $150 Â So there you have it, say $1350 in parts, as it cost me a bit extra to return the incorrect forks back to the US. Â Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhubarb Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 On 2015-12-17 at 4:05 PM, WestOfBen said: Â I've placed about 5-10mm of large washers between the top shock mount and the frame to lift the rear a bit. You can only put a few under there otherwise you risk the top shock mount rotating if it is not kept straight by the frame lugs/guides. Easy job. Just wondering how you were able to do this. I recenty installed an Ohlins shock in my 4th gen and at full extension the bottom of the shock touches the linkage dogbone. With the nut off the top mount, it won't drop at all to make room for any washer or spacer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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