f3racer Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Trail and Error So......coming from a entirely sportbike past, racing a couple years in CCS, and then my most recent trip to the Dragon on my VFR1200 i have been seriously looking at suspension upgrades. Now I am a Soldier in the US Army with 3 teeneage daughters, 1 who is in college and a 10 year old. Money is not falling off trees for me so sending my suspension off to be worked on is out of range for my wallet. I am also quite the do it yourself kinda guy. I prefer to buy the parts and do the work myself. I called racetech and they told me to pack up my suspension and ship it to them to be spec'd out. Then they would tell me what parts and service would cost. NO THANKS! Lets talk talk about stock stuff 1st. Front forks are very long in comparison and the original thought was to do a fork swap from a sport bike, but that would severely screw up the handling of this bike. I cant seem to find a solid answer on what the spring rates are for the front. Iv'e seen .75kg/mm and I've seen .90kg/mm. Either way this is crazy soft for a large close to 600lb sport touring bike. For example the stock spring rate on a 406lb 07 cbr600rr is 1.0 kg/mm. Next I looked to see what other springs i may drop in. Ohlins, hyperpro, and a few others have drop in fork springs at 1.0 and 1.1. all are between $125 and $200. Stock 1.0 600rr springs are $25 a spring but the free length is way different. IIRC the stock vfr spring length is around 15in and the cbr is 9. thats a big difference and fabricating a spacer in there might not be strong enough for the load. In the mean time i dropped the front end (raised the forks in the triple) 1mm. Rear shock. Rear shocks are expensive and i care what your budget is 500-1500 for s shock is expensive. Once again sending it off is not an option right now so i was looking for alternatives. Rear springs for the shock are available from several venders and are again $125-200. So i have been looking at shock swaps. I do not have a clear answer on the rear spring yet. I asked mr Daugherty and he said that he has it listed "I have in my notes 857lb/in. However, that is the same as the OEM spring rate for a VFR800 so I'm not sure that is correct.". The issue with swapping OEM shock is that unless it has a remote mount preload adjuster its rather hard to adjust, the space in there is tight, and the freelength of the shock is longer than most sport bike shocks. I tried anyway. I have an 02 R1 rear shock that is in good shape and is an 8.8 spring rate. If the 8.5 that JD said is correct then that gives more sprint rate. The R1 shock fit in the hole but it is 12in long where the vfr shock is 13 eye to eye. i Shimmed the top mount to make up for the length but i still could not get the shock to line up without hitting the swing arm. So in the mean time i shimmed the stock shock 2mm. After my 1st ride today the bike felt awesome when flicked back and forth but pushes at the exit of a turn. looking back at my notes and my racetech bible that tells me the front end is too low in comparison tto the rear end. The forks will be set back to stock. Looking around at other OEM shocks online im seeing a ton for $20-30. As i get them and try them i'll list the issues here. What I would like is tried and true fixes to these issues listed here for the do it yourselfer. If you have part numbers and brands or if you have swapped out stuff for other OEM products them please list them here. Please list spring rates and free lengths if you have them. Also if you have tried something and it didnt work list that and why it didnt work. OEM fork length and spring length xxxxxx OEM shock length 13in and spring rate xxxx 2002-2003 OEM Yamaha R1 rear shock. Spring rate 8.8 kg/mm. Freelength 12in- Reservoir hits swing arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer luvtoleanit Posted November 17, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted November 17, 2014 IMO, I don't think you'll be able to sort it out for much cheaper than what Jamie charges. His prices are extremely fair, very budget priced IMO. He rebuilt my front forks for $350. That's springs, valves, oil, etc. I couldn't have done it much cheaper, myself, and I'd trust him over me white knuckling it in the garage. IIRC, his price for redoing your stock shock is about the same. All new suspension for $700 is pretty value priced, and priced low enough that I didn't even think about doing my forks myself. I do wish you the best on getting it done. That's all the intel I've got. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f3racer Posted November 17, 2014 Author Share Posted November 17, 2014 Thanks for the response. I do agree that Jamie's prices are awesome in comparison, but if i had the parts myself i could do it for less than that. "Budget" is a relative term based on how much can afford to spend. Does he make or modify the parts himself or does he use parts from another brand? And last but not least, i am in charge or the motorcycle safety program for Ft Stewart GA and teach alot of different types of classes using my own motorcycle. I cant afford to have it down for more than a couple days at a time. My sv650 is currently apart getting some parts replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Terry Posted November 17, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted November 17, 2014 I think you can make a fair stab at a desirable front spring rate for the VFR12 using the Racetech calcuator. Pick a bike that you know the stock weight for, then add the difference in weight between that bike and the 12 to the "rider weight" and you should get a recommendation. E.g.using my 5th gen VFR800 as a base at 208.2 kg, the VFR12 I believe is 267kg wet, so a difference of 58.8kg. For me at 80kg I add that to the rider weight and get 138.8 kg. Using these values on the Racetech site I get a front spring rate of 1.115kg/mm. (As a reference, for the VFR8 and an 80kg rider, the rate is 0.9kg/mm). After that comes fork disassembly and changing shims. Once you know the size (diameter) of the cartridge components you could buy the appropriate parts from JD or RaceTech and install them yourself. Another post here http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/73449-ohlins-spring-rates/ specified the standard shock spring rate as 1024 lbs/inch to 1085 lbs/inch, 180 N/mm to 190 N/mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer crazybrother Posted November 17, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted November 17, 2014 Very good information, as of now. My front end is to stiff and my rear is to soft. I had the front seals replaced and fluid changed now it will hardly move at all. (Stock settings). I have tried to back out the compression and the rebound without much help. Thinking if I keep my VFR 1200, I will end up sending both front and rear off to Jamie to sort it out. But like you, I would prefer to do it myself, so i'm hoping that you get some good info to start with. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Terry Posted November 18, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted November 18, 2014 If all they did was change the fluid and seals, and the front was ok before, I'd be asking about the viscosity of oil that was installed. Nothing should have changed in the dampers as these would not be opened up during that maintenance. The other possibility for a hard front end would be the oil level, if this is set too high there will be more resistance to compressing toward the end of the stroke.If it's not too personal, how much front sag have you got when you are on board? Backing out the compression and rebound won't automatically make the ride feel "softer". Without adequate damping the suspension moves a lot more on bumps so there is more spring energy to control. There is a Goldilocks zone where you have just enough compression damping to avoid excess movement and just enough rebound to stop over extension. The screw adjusters bear on a tapered needle, and most of the adjustment happens in the first one-two revolutions, after that nothing much will change because the needle is well away from the seat.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dynajohn Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 I assume the "Jamie" referred to here is Jamie Daugherty. Checked his web-site and he has no listing for work on the VFR 1200. The pricing for other VFR's seems more than reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CornerCarver Posted November 18, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted November 18, 2014 Jamie also doesn't list the ST1300 on his website but he can work on shocks and forks from most major manufacturers. My ST rear shock (a WP Performance) had issues and he could not find parts for it as the mfg sources many parts from China so I had to pop for a new rear shock recently but he has helped Yamaha riders that I sent to him among others. To the original poster, if your only job on FT Stewart is motorcycle safety, then very cool MOS you have. I would wait until the SV was back in service and then take the big Viffer down and do the full suspension right by sending the stock components off to Jamie. If you have more money than time then purchase a shock from Traxxion and have them build you a set of cartridges for the forks. You can replace those in a few hours with the new parts in your hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f3racer Posted November 18, 2014 Author Share Posted November 18, 2014 To the original poster, if your only job on FT Stewart is motorcycle safety, then very cool MOS you have. I would wait until the SV was back in service and then take the big Viffer down and do the full suspension right by sending the stock components off to Jamie. If you have more money than time then purchase a shock from Traxxion and have them build you a set of cartridges for the forks. You can replace those in a few hours with the new parts in your hand. My MOS is 31B MP, but in 2012 i was pulled from running an SRT to rebuild the MC program here at Stewart. That was our worst year for motorcycle fatalities. 2013 we dropped 67% and then FY14 was our 1st fiscal year in 11 without a fatal MC accident. Department of The Army nominated me for the AMA Hazel Kolb Brighter Image award so hopefully I will receive that next Oct during the AIM Expo. And yes it is the single best job ive had in my 18 years in. They are building a GS level civilian position for me so that when i retire i can keep doing the job. I definately dont have more money than time. I think for the satifcation of the hunt i will keep trying to see what works and what doesnt but eventually (tax season or if i sell my 68 chevy) i will end up going with JD or Traxxion, etc.. I want other people to know what their options are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer swimmer Posted November 19, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted November 19, 2014 Looking forward to the info shared in this thread. I'd be curious to know where people have their front preload set. Like a poster above I feel like the front is too stiff and I am not sure if the rear is too soft or just a little dead feeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f3racer Posted November 19, 2014 Author Share Posted November 19, 2014 I'll post my settings tomorrow. I have them written down in the garage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer swimmer Posted November 22, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted November 22, 2014 So, are those that are getting their suspension work done by/buy parts from Daugherty Motorsports buying their cartridge kits? The price seems reasonable for the models they have listed. Not having to send parts away is a huge plus for me as this swap could be done in a few hours. If you are not buying the cartridge kits are you just having them do re-valvling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dae Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 I emailed Mr Daugherty about suspension on VFR 1200, and got a quick reply back. I was interested in purchasing the shock instead of sending the unit to him, because I live overseas and didn't want down time on my ride. Here is his reply, Yes, I offer full suspension upgrades for you VFR1200. Right now the services I offer are spring and revalve upgrades to your OEM parts. The cost for the forks is $355 and the rear shock is $315. I'm planning to offer an upgraded rear shock but right now I've not had a chance to get one of those bike in my shop to work out those details. The 1200's are fairly rare in this part of the country. Your OEM parts are decent, especially the forks, so spring and valving upgrades serve you quite well.I hope this helps, if there is anything else I can do please let me know. Thanks! Jamie Daugherty(260)710-4049jamie@daughertymotorsports.com www.daughertymotorsports.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer swimmer Posted November 22, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted November 22, 2014 I emailed Mr Daugherty about suspension on VFR 1200, and got a quick reply back. I was interested in purchasing the shock instead of sending the unit to him, because I live overseas and didn't want down time on my ride. There is a lightly used OEM shock on ebay (US) for $160. You could probably buy that and have it sent to him. If you need any logistical help in the US, let me know. Going to Korea next month to visit my wife's family. I emailed Mr Daugherty about suspension on VFR 1200, and got a quick reply back. I was interested in purchasing the shock instead of sending the unit to him, because I live overseas and didn't want down time on my ride. Here is his reply, Yes, I offer full suspension upgrades for you VFR1200. Right now the services I offer are spring and revalve upgrades to your OEM parts. The cost for the forks is $355 and the rear shock is $315. I'm planning to offer an upgraded rear shock but right now I've not had a chance to get one of those bike in my shop to work out those details. The 1200's are fairly rare in this part of the country. Your OEM parts are decent, especially the forks, so spring and valving upgrades serve you quite well. I hope this helps, if there is anything else I can do please let me know. Thanks! Jamie Daugherty (260)710-4049 jamie@daughertymotorsports.com www.daughertymotorsports.com Seems like maybe the cartridge kits are not available for the 1200 then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dae Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Thank you Swimmer for offering to help me. I ordered that shock from ebay, (Seller-sweet deals), they sent me the wrong shock, which was for CBR 600. I tried contacting them but they kept stalling. I even offered them $50 price they had for the cbr shock and requested them to send the shock that I originally ordered, but still stalled me with unrelated questions. It wouldn't have been worth the postage to send the wrong item back to them.. Finally went to eBay resolution to get my money back. While corresponding with them (sweet deals) they had the shock back on eBay site for sale again. I googled earth their business address and it was a private residence, but on their website it looked like they had a motorcycle retail business. I wasted $70 for postage to send them back the CBR shock and lots of aggravation to get the refund. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
satariel Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Imho, also just like Mr. Daugherty posted, I find the front fork to be very good on this bike - beeing stock. Unless you are going to race thisbike you do not need a fork upgrade at all. The weak link is a rear shock and thats for sure. I suggest doing the rear upgrade fist and see what it gives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer hvfrdave Posted November 23, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted November 23, 2014 Totally disagree, the front forks are a problem, under-sprung, and you can't set the front sag, to me that's the most important setting on any bike. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
satariel Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Totally disagree, the front forks are a problem, under-sprung, and you can't set the front sag, to me that's the most important setting on any bike. . How much do you weigh? I find my front fork to be perfect and I weigh 105kg? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lshark Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 the Ohlins 08795-11 front spring (11 N/mm ) made a vast improvement...i had bottoming issues before installing them....now my sag is set properly and i am in the middle of the preload adjuster's range...i weigh 250 U.S. lbs....there is also a 10 N/mm spring available 08795-10....i don't think a revalve would hurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer hvfrdave Posted November 23, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted November 23, 2014 satariel666, 80kls ready to ride. K-teck revalve, with more compression, Ohlins 10N/mm fork springs, 160 air-gap, I weigh 80kls ready to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
satariel Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 satariel666, 80kls ready to ride. K-teck revalve, with more compression, Ohlins 10N/mm fork springs, 160 air-gap, I weigh 80kls ready to go. So im about 30 more - somehow works for me., Not sure what You are expecting from this honda and how do you ride it tho. I can complain about cheap rear shock - planning the wilbers wesa-x - need to rob a bank first. Anyways, everything can be modified to suit the owner requirements and there's always something to mod. Somehow I doubt Yours equals Mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer hvfrdave Posted November 23, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted November 23, 2014 satariel999, not sure what you mean by that comment, Some how I doubt yours equals mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
satariel Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 satariel999, not sure what you mean by that comment, Some how I doubt yours equals mine. I was gently insinuating that your changes suits you and may not be suitable for the other users. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VICARA Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Hi everyone, mi problem is that I thought that the front end was to tight but, I got a new job now and the driveway is not even with the street, so now when I hit the curb it actually bottoms out, I'm 160lb. and the front settings are stock, the rear is 18 clicks, I still think the rear is a bit loose but I'm wondering how much full travel is in the front? I don't want to mess with those settings my self. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer luvtoleanit Posted November 24, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted November 24, 2014 Totally disagree, the front forks are a problem, under-sprung, and you can't set the front sag, to me that's the most important setting on any bike. . 100%. Shock isn't ideal for me, stock, but works OK, problem was the forks. Fixed both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.