Dmitry Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 Finally after few years of walking past the bike and saying "some day" I got a usable rear cam for my '86, now the question is should I replace the 4 long head bolts that I removed to get at the cam? I worked on engines for a while, done 100's of heads and pretty sure those bolts are "Torque-to-Yield" but figured I'd ask anyway. Also has anyone done this successfully? I don't have an engine manual, most of the stuff I can guess but head bolt torque and pattern are not one of them. Thanks Pictures to come... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted March 8, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted March 8, 2014 http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/files/file/156-vfr-86-service-workshop-manual-in-eng-deu-fra-esp/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmitry Posted March 8, 2014 Author Share Posted March 8, 2014 Thanks Dutchy! Mine is a gear driven VF1000R, I once downloaded the manual but pages were missing and now I can't find where I saved it Found it! http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/files/file/149-vf1000r-manualpdf/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer gll429 Posted March 8, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted March 8, 2014 if you have a windows operated computer click on the "windows symbol" it will bring up a menu that will have "search files" type in honda or vf or 1000r and what ever else.. i would think mac and others work the same way.. good luck finding it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmitry Posted March 9, 2014 Author Share Posted March 9, 2014 The manual I saved was on another computer and is safely tucked away somewhere in one of the backups, not easily accessible or searchable, does not matter since found and downloaded a copy from VFRD. It answered all but one question, as the thread title says, Should I Replace head bolts? Manual says "reinstall, re-torque" nothing about checking length or replacing. In my experience working on engines those type of bolts (with a twisty bit in the middle) are known as "torque-to-yield" and once they stretch they get replaced. One thing that is different about the engines I did in the past, torque is usually much higher (like 40 or 50 lbs plus 90º) but the bolts are much thicker as well, also there is a length measurement that is provided to make sure bolts are with in spec. I'm leaning towards not replacing them, just wondering if anyone had done a cam swap (or R&R'd heads) on 1000R and how did it work out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted March 9, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted March 9, 2014 How much are the bolts? Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Kel Posted March 9, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted March 9, 2014 Hey Dmitry. I've read where people were comfortable re-using these but just once, making sure the threads were clean in the case and the bolts are rust free. Mostly I read that because they stretch they're difficult to torque properly so never re-use them. This coming mostly from car/truck heads. Can you still get them from Honda? Probably expensive knowing Honda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmitry Posted March 9, 2014 Author Share Posted March 9, 2014 13: - BOLT, UBS (8X151) 719474 Unavailable to ship $10.16 small bolts above ^^ , below the lagre bolts in question 15: - BOLT, UBS (9X175)(9X175) 719754 Usually ships within 1 to 2 business days $12.88 will end up paying more for the bolts than camshaft I'm also gonna order a new rocker 8: ARM, VALVE ROCKER 578508 Unavailable to ship $84.92 and VC gaskets x2 plus rubber grommets x8 6: GASKET, CYL HD CVR 571676 Usually ships within 1 to 2 business days $31.36 10: RUBBER, MOUNTING 727524 Usually ships within 1 to 2 business days $2.88 $222 total, drop in the bucket considering what I already spent on this bike, still hurts when you take in to account that this is one of several bikes that need some service this spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Kel Posted March 10, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted March 10, 2014 13: - BOLT, UBS (8X151)719474 Unavailable to ship $10.16 Bikebandit shows the 4 center bolts on the 85/86 rear head as being... 13: - BOLT, UBS (9X175)(9X175) On the 85, they show the fronts as the same number as rear, but the 86, they show front as #15 but it has the same part # as #13. They show them as available to ship. A few, very trusted guys on V4BBS have said the following in regards to re-use...besides the usual "I'd replace for peace of mind" there were these... 1. "I say reuse them unless the head gaskets have been replaced a dozen times....and if they have, there's a bigger problem with the bike than just the head gaskets being bad....the key is making sure you check the retorque the head bolts after several heat cycles when you change the gaskets, and then check the torque a couple times a year. If you have a good torque wrench you'll be fine, those head bolts are pretty solid and the shearing force is generally a fair amount higher than the proper torque of the heads. Biggest factor here is make sure you lubricate them with Honda Moly 45 or they won't reach the proper clamping force before reaching the maximum torque." 2. "I've never replaced head bolts on any of my rebuilds. Doesn't make it Gospel or anything, but just never had a related problem. Like Lewis said, just make sure to chase the threads on both bolt & hole, and you should be alright." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmitry Posted March 10, 2014 Author Share Posted March 10, 2014 Working on HT4100 Cady motors I recall the head bolts would end up being too long and had to be replaced every time heads came off (which happened often) here's from Honapartshouse.com #13 rear cylinder BOLT, UBS (9X175) 90012-MB6-003 same as #15 front cylinder BOLT, UBS (9X175) 90012-MB6-003 The #13 bolt I posted above (8x151) is 8mm bolt closer to outside, it does not have the "twist" and only requires 15-18 ft/lb of torque which is clearly not enough to stretch it while 9mm takes 31-34 lbs. I'm gonna get the parts ordered, for extra $50 I will sleep better :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Kel Posted March 10, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted March 10, 2014 Working on HT4100 Cady motors I recall the head bolts would end up being too long and had to be replaced every time heads came off (which happened often) here's from Honapartshouse.com #13 rear cylinder BOLT, UBS (9X175) 90012-MB6-003 same as #15 front cylinder BOLT, UBS (9X175) 90012-MB6-003 The #13 bolt I posted above (8x151) is 8mm bolt closer to outside, it does not have the "twist" and only requires 15-18 ft/lb of torque which is clearly not enough to stretch it while 9mm takes 31-34 lbs. I'm gonna get the parts ordered, for extra $50 I will sleep better :) Probably smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmitry Posted March 11, 2014 Author Share Posted March 11, 2014 Bolts and rocker as NLA (No Longer Available) but some dealers show stock... and the hunt is on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer VF1000RS Posted March 14, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted March 14, 2014 I did replace my head gaskets several years ago and reused all the bolts. I didn't replace the gaskets due to any problems as the engine ran perfect. I just cleaned all the carbon out of the combustion chambers, piston tops,etc along with new valve guide seals. Again, not due to any problems but only because I was building the bike at the time and it was a good opportunity as the engine was out for cleaning, frame powdercoat, etc. No problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmitry Posted March 15, 2014 Author Share Posted March 15, 2014 I did replace my head gaskets several years ago and reused all the bolts Thanks for rely! I will reuse the bolts and see what happens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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