Audigier Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Hello, I am having troubles finding the Rear Proportional Control Valve Air Bleed Valve, here is some pictures of my bike, Here is some background, when i got my bike on july, everything was ok, rear brakes would not work as good as they should but they were working, while washing the bike i noticed what now i know was a cheap way to unlink the front brakes from the rear. here is a picture of what i had, a piece of rubber hose and a hose clamp preventing the secondray master cylinder from moving. after i removed this, i lost all rear brakes, now the rear brake pedal goes all the way to the bottom and while i was trying to bleed the rear brakes i could not locate where to bleed the rear proportional control valve. since i could not locate the bleeding valve, i bleed the rear caliper from the top bleeding valve as shown on the manual with a vacuum pump but i cant feel any changes, a bit of air came out but made no changes to the way the pedal feels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer RollinAgain Posted November 2, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted November 2, 2012 If I'm not mistaken that step only applies to ABS models Rollin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer 2thdr Posted November 2, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted November 2, 2012 Probably you are going to have to bleed the whole system as described either in the service manual or here on this site with the helpful online guide. There is a specific order and method to bleeding the LBS effectively on these bikes. Maybe someone more knowledgeable will chime in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audigier Posted November 2, 2012 Author Share Posted November 2, 2012 im following the manual and it does not specifies that its only for ABS model, im reading and reading the manual trying to understand, i only have problems with the pedal brake, if i have air in the pedal to front caliper will it affect the pedal to rear caliper operation?? i only bleed pedal to rear caliper maybe now i only need to bleed pedal to front caliper... i am trying not to mess too much with brakes as it has always been a pita for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 I have yet to bleed my brakes on my 6th gen...Scares the crapola out of me...Your not helping... Please post up when you figure it out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audigier Posted November 2, 2012 Author Share Posted November 2, 2012 ok guys, i went out again bleed the front caliper, center valve, it is connected to the rear pedal, lots of air bubbles came out, now the rear brakes work, i dont know if the work like they should, but now i can stop the bike and if i push hard enough the rear wheel will lock, i mean i dont know if its working ok because when stoping i can feel the pedal moving up when coming stoping i guess is related to the secondary master cylinder and the proportional valve. is that ok?? i need new pads anyway so ill wait until monday to change them and bleed again, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted November 2, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted November 2, 2012 i mean i dont know if its working ok because when stoping i can feel the pedal moving up when coming stoping i guess is related to the secondary master cylinder and the proportional valve. is that ok?? Bikes with linked brakes have a weird feeling rear pedal. It feels firm and then when you let go of the front brake lever the bike often settles and the rear pedal drops a bit. So, strange pedal feel is normal, depending on how you use the brakes. My K1300R has linked brakes and does the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audigier Posted November 2, 2012 Author Share Posted November 2, 2012 after bleeding i test rode the bike around the block, i came back inside posted, got my helmet and went for a longer ride, i lost rear brakes again, probably there is still some air in the lines. i will keep reading the manual trying to figure where the air is.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Conedodger Posted November 2, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted November 2, 2012 You are looking on the wrong side. The proportioning valve is under the black cover near the battery. This link should help: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audigier Posted November 3, 2012 Author Share Posted November 3, 2012 I read hispanicslam thread and seems easy cake, i only have one question left, when you pump the secondary master cylinder on the left front caliper where you bleed the fluid, on the front caliper center valve or on the proportional valve next to the battery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audigier Posted November 4, 2012 Author Share Posted November 4, 2012 ok guys thanks for all the help, i think i managed to properly bleed my brakes, front brakes was on problem, rear brakes, too much time and bleeding, not hard but takes you some time to get all the air out as the lines travel long ways on the bike. as for the rear brakes, when i get up on the bike after it has been sitting for some time, the point where the brake pedal starts braking the bike is lower, works but feels lower, as i use the brake the second time the point where it gets hard its higher and remains the same for the whole time im riding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audigier Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 Guy I need some help... I've bleed the rear brakes two times, both of them seemed to be ok no air bubbles comig out, I did the pedal and secondary master cylinder pumping lots of times just to be sure. Both times went out for a ride and if I used the front brakes I would lose rear brakes, pedal gets soft, something is wrong on the secondary master cylinder when it pumps it makes the pedal get soft as I use pump the pedal it gets hard again but eventually It will not pressurize again. What should do?? I'm using a vacuum pump and manual bleeding I think the problem is on the secondary master cylinder because if it does not move rear brake pedal won't get soft if activate the secondary master the pedal will he soft, I can see no leaks anywhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audigier Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 ok sorry if my previous post is a bit confusing as i was writing it from my cellphone. here i will try to describe more clearly what i've been doing and what is happening.... symtoms... while working on the bike on the garage, first i bleed the rear caliper top valve, then bleed the front left caliper center valve, then the secondary master cylinder to proportional valve... first i pump the pedal, then i push and hold the secondary master cylinder and open the proportional valve bleeding valve and the secondary master cylinder will get softer and will go inside, i close the bleeding valve and get my helper to pump the pedal until the while i keep holdwing the secondary master cylinder inside, as my helper pumps on the pedal the secondary master cylinder will push out by itself, the pedal pumping stops, i open the bleeding valve and push the secondary master cylinder inside, close the valve, the helper pumps the pedal until secondary master is out and repeat the process until no air comes out... then i go to the rear master cylinder center bleeding valve and repeat the same process as above. the rear brake will work OK as long as the secondary master cylinder is not pushed in. im thinking that may be the reason why it was locked in place with a hose clamp and a piece of pvc pipe, can i have some part not working properly causing this kind if problem or i just should keep doing what i am doing. or i am doing somethig wrong? i also have a vacuum pump that i turn on and bleed fluid just to make sure no air bubbles come out. on regular brake systems i just use the vacuum pump and the brakes work ok since the first time. i tried this with this bike but does not seem to be working. im getting bored of pulling the rear wheel and removing the caliper to turn it around to get access to the bleeding valves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted November 8, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted November 8, 2012 I recently did my CBS brake lines on my 2002. It took, a very, very long time and probably a bottle of fluid to get all the air out (I replaced the rear and front left calipers). I can thoroughly recommend Speed Bleeders. Go and buy the full set from Wire My Bike because it will massively help with the bleeding. You will need the full set and the PCV valve bleeder to get the job done using Speed Bleeders. After that you just keep on pumping the rear pedal and filling up the reservoir until no more bubbles come out. Takes ages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audigier Posted November 9, 2012 Author Share Posted November 9, 2012 Hello again, i went out and i spent two ours bleeding and bleeding, tried the method here, pumping pedal then the secondary master cylinder (one time) until no air came out, then just to make sure, as i always do, turned on my vacuum pump, there was fluid coming out, but here comes the strange part, the level on the reseirvour never went down, somehow after pumping for some time (one minute) seems like i was getting all the fluid out from the lines and then air was being sucked into the lines, first i thought i still had air in the lines but i did this too many times, about one quarter of fluid and could not stop getting air when using the vacuum pump as recommended on the honda manual with he caliper tilted and so...., i dont seem to have any leaks that i can spot i just found that the secondary master cylinder was a little bit wet under the rubber boot. could this be my problem??, after two hours of seeing too much air coming out from the lines when using the vacuum pump i ended up bleeding as before and installing back the hose clamp to prevent the secondary master cylinder from moving. i got one more question... while bleeding with a vacuum pump connected to the servo proportional valve (battery side), shouldn't the fluid level on the reseirvour drop whie the fluid is being sucked out?, as i said, i believe air was getting into the system from outsite and i believe the secondary master cylinder is the culprit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Manually pumping and then break the bleed screw till lever bottoms, close bleed then repeat, Ive always found to be easiest and best way. If a bleed valve is open and your sucking fluid through, Good chance you sucking air right through the loose threads of the bleed valve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audigier Posted November 11, 2012 Author Share Posted November 11, 2012 yep i have manually pumped too, several convinations of just puming the rear brake pedal, then pushing in the secondary master. everything i try ends up the same, it works good on the garage, but as soon as i get out to ride it fails :(! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BartmanEH Posted November 19, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted November 19, 2012 I'd say there's a good chance your Secondary Master Cylinder (SMC) is pooched. If it wasn't before the original owner put the hose clamp on it, then it might well be damaged from the hose clamp anyway. Odds are the cylinder is OK and you just need the Piston Set. I think your SMC is pulling in air rather than refilling from the rear reservoir as it should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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