Member Contributer Oh6PearlVFR Posted November 27, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted November 27, 2011 I'm sure this is common knowledge to most, yet for those of us who have been plagued as of late by all kinds of Electrical Gremlins I wanted to post my feedback. I was consistently using a trickle charger for a while (running a 2 amp charge that had an AGM option) After putting a new battery in the bike and correcting the issues I was having I noticed that my battery was still running low voltage. The results of poor stator output and my previously corrected R/R. SO - after all my fiddling, I found myself with a new battery with a portion that had been damaged in a short amount of time. LUCKY for me, the battery was under warranty so I just swaped it for a new one but in talking to the shop that fixed my bike we chatted about a Battery Tender. Tender's much different from a Trickle Charger. Tender's are for us, trickle chargers aren't. Not that you can't use one - it's just better performance from the battery will come from the slow 0.75 trickle from a Battery Tender versus the constant 2amps from a trickle charger. The tender recognizes how much battery charge you need, and a tender does not. SO - I learned my lesson and lucked out but if you are looking for a reason to drop $20 - a Battery Tender makes a big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFR4Lee Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Handy item if you don't ride as much as you might like, or have more than 1 bike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veefer800Canuck Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 A battery should be charged at about 10% of its rated capacity. On an VFR battery that's 1.2 amps to 1.4 amps, depending. You CAN use a 2 amp charger, but then you need to cut the charging time accordingly, then disconnect it. A 2 amp straight rate charger does just that, pushes 2 amps into the battery at all times. It doesn't taper off when the battery is "full". I use a Shumacher brand charger like the one below. It is 1.5 amp with a float mode, so it tapers off accordingly. I also modded it with an LCD voltmeter display, in addition to the supplied LED indicators. So I can see exactly the charging voltage. It goes up to 14.4v initially then tapers off and holds about 13.2 or so after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smoothsailin Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 i'm a big fan of Deltran's Battery Tender Plus. Purchased my 1st one about six months after taking delivery of my '94 Honda ST1100. Sixteen years and 90k miles later my ST is still only on its 2nd Yuasa battery, which is more than 6 years' old and still seems to be as good as new. The ST's original battery lasted more than 10 years before I finally started experiencing some cold start issues in sub-freezing temperatures after the bike had sat unused for a week or more. Even then the starter would spin the engine briskly, but there didn't seem to be enough juice left over to fire the spark plugs strongly enough to reliably achieve ignition. I also have a Yuasa (smart) charger/maintainer received when I purchased my 5th generation in February. While this unit seems to function similarly to my Battery Tender Plus, I believe it only has a .75 amp charge rating. About six weeks ago I purchased a Schumacher charger similar to the one mentioned in the last post which was on sale at Wallyworld for ~ $21. Unfortunately, so far I have not been as pleased with this charger as I have been with the others. For one thing, imo the so-called "float" mode doesn't seem to be as sophisticated and designed to maximize a battery's longevity as well as the design used for Deltran's Battery Tender. According to the instructions for the Schumacher unit when in float mode the charge shuts off completely and simply monitors the battery's voltage until the battery has discharged to a pre-determined voltage. Then the charger re-engages until the voltage climbs to another pre-determined level and shuts off again. Subsequently this off/on charging process continues. To me such a charge/discharge cycle is not in the best interest of maximizing the battery's longevity. With Deltran's unit once the green light comes on to signal the maintenance mode is active, the charger monitors & maintains the voltage continuously by keeping the rate of charge at very low amperage level. I have also connected the Schumacher charger to different batteries that as far as I know were in fine shape. However more than once when I checked on the battery after the charger had been connected far longer than should have been required to top off the charge (overnight or longer) I found the unit was still charging and the green light had had not illuminated to indicate the charger had entered float mode. When this happens I have unhooked the Schumacher unit and attached my Deltran Battery Tender Plus, which within minutes would show agreen light indicating it had already entered float mode. As a result I'm not convinced that the Schumacher won't overcharge and possibly damage a battery if it is left unsupervised for an extended period. Based on other user's comments found online it seems I'm not the only purchaser with similar reservations about the Shumacher. I now wish I had returned it to Wallyworld for a full refund before the time limit had elapsed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veefer800Canuck Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 I dunno, I leave mine on all winter, we're talking 5 months, and the Yuasa AGM is going strong for years now, I forget how long exactly but probably 5 years and counting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericlw Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 I dunno, I leave mine on all winter, we're talking 5 months, and the Yuasa AGM is going strong for years now, I forget how long exactly but probably 5 years and counting? yup i put my bike on the tender soon as i get back and never turn it off. my battery lasted 7 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Charging at 2Amps continuous is not a trickle charger. Most smart chargers are built for the specific chemistry of the battery, where they will charge at about .2C (where C is the nominal discharge rate) and then switch to "trickle mode" when the charger detects that the "delta-v", or difference between the battery charger output voltage and the actual battery voltage, gets small. In trickle mode it only charges at a fraction of the C-rate, maintaining the smallest delta-v without allowing the cell to get overcharged. I have been using a current limited voltage supply for years but certainly tenders are cheap and effective. Just do not get a quick charger! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDO-VFR Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 What EVERYONE should know about lead-acid batteries! Battery charging takes place in 3 basic stages: Bulk, Absorption, and Float. Bulk Charge - The first stage of 3-stage battery charging. Current is sent to batteries at the maximum safe rate they will accept until voltage rises to near (80-90%) full charge level. Voltages at this stage typically range from 10.5 volts to 15 volts. There is no "correct" voltage for bulk charging, but there may be limits on the maximum current that the battery and/or wiring can take. Absorption Charge: The 2nd stage of 3-stage battery charging. Voltage remains constant and current gradually tapers off as internal resistance increases during charging. It is during this stage that the charger puts out maximum voltage. Voltages at this stage are typically around 14.2 to 15.5 volts. Float Charge: The 3rd stage of 3-stage battery charging. After batteries reach full charge, charging voltage is reduced to a lower level (typically 12.8 to 13.2) to reduce gassing and prolong battery life. This is often referred to as a maintenance or trickle charge, since it's main purpose is to keep an already charged battery from discharging. PWM, or "pulse width modulation" accomplishes the same thing. In PWM, the controller or charger senses tiny voltage drops in the battery and sends very short charging cycles (pulses) to the battery. This may occur several hundred times per minute. It is called "pulse width" because the width of the pulses may vary from a few microseconds to several seconds. Note that for long term float service, such as backup power systems that are seldom discharged, the float voltage should be around 13.02 to 13.20 volts. Gelled cells should be charged at no more than the C/20 rate, or 5% of their amp-hour capacity. MY COMMENT: (Gelled cells or AGM (a form of gell cell) are the type used in motorbikes. Some AGM type batteries can be charged faster (C/5)) Flooded battery life can be extended if an equalizing charge is applied every 10 to 40 days. This is a charge that is about 10% higher than normal full charge voltage, and is applied for about 2 to 16 hours. This makes sure that all the cells are equally charged, and the gas bubbles mix the electrolyte. If the liquid in standard wet cells is not mixed, the electrolyte becomes "stratified". You can have very strong solution at the bottom, and very weak at the top of the cell. With stratification, you can test a battery with a hydrometer and get readings that are quite a ways off. If you cannot equalize for some reason, you should let the battery sit for at least 24 hours and then use the hydrometer. AGM and gelled should be equalized 2-4 times a year at most - check the manufacturers recommendations, especially on gelled. Read the whole article here. http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm#Battery Charging A high quality battery tender will do the three charge modes. The voltage thresholds at which they change between modes will vary according to the manufacturer's idea of what is best. My opinion is that a lower float voltage is better. Enjoy, Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDO-VFR Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 More good reading. The BEST tenders include the "de-sulphation" step, done with pulsed technique. http://www.bdchargers.com/cycles.php Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Oh6PearlVFR Posted November 29, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 29, 2011 Wow - great info thank you and I appreciate the technical backup/ opinions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted November 29, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted November 29, 2011 A battery should be charged at about 10% of its rated capacity. Except for the new Lithium-Ferrite (LiFePO4) batteries - you can charge them at up to 3 x their rated capacity safely. Of course this assumes you know what the actual capacity is, as opposed to the "lead-acid equivalent" rating. So for example a 4amp/hour LFX battery (common capacity) can be charged at 14 amps. This means you can take a Lithium-Ferrite battery from flat to fully charged in about 20 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mello dude Posted January 3, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted January 3, 2012 Not sure I'm grasping everything here - but I have been using a .5 (1/2) amp 12v trickle charger. (Continuous charge) And Harbor Freight has a Float charger on sale at $5.99 Should I go grab it and use it instead? thxxzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Depends if the HF carger has any "smarts" in it to lower the voltage and current once your battery has reached full charge, At $5.99 ,I doubt it........ just use your current one (sorry, couldn't resist( oh no another ohm) and keep an eye on the electrolyte level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hottrodd7 Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 WOW! Thanks for all the info guys. I just wish I was smart enough to understand it all!!! LOL I've got about 6 of these chargers-a couple of the Deltran Tenders and a bunch from Wally world. I hook them up in the winter to my bikes and my wife's convertible (living here in Western New York we don't get to use these things all year long). I haven't had any battery problems so far on any of the rides. I just always thought all these chargers were the same. I only buy the Shumacher brand charger because they are inexpensive and easy to get (Wally world). So far--so good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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