Member Contributer canib Posted June 17, 2009 Member Contributer Share Posted June 17, 2009 Team VFRD, I’m looking for spring rate suggestions for my Ohlins. I currently have; Front - Sonic springs 0.90. 22% increase over stock. Rear – Ohlins S46DR1S w/ 19.36Kg/mm spring. 27% increase over stock 2006 VFR w/ ~14,000mi but only about 4k on the new sproingers. I weigh 172lbs and probably 180ish all geared up. The front is _slightly_ too stiff for my taste and the rear is obviously bouncing my teeth out. I need help choosing the correct rear spring rate. Riding; 90% commuting 8% twisties 2% long road trips Based on my weight, which setup should I go with? 1) Rear: 17.32 Kg/mm (13% increase over stock) Front: change to Sonic 0.85 (15% increase) 2) Rear: 17.32 Kg/mm (13% increase over stock) Front: no change 3) Rear: 18.34 Kg/mm (20% increase over stock) Front: no change My preference is either choice 2 or 3 because it means I don’t have to buy new front springs… I’m leaning towards #2 because I’m a little gun shy after having such a stiff spring in the rear, but I’m worried about breaking the 5% rule that suggests the front and rear should be within 5% extra stiffness of each other. Follow up question – would anyone want to trade springs? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baileyrock Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 Hi, Have you checked your Free/Static Sag and Rider Sag numbers? :huh: What makes you think it's too stiff? Correct Sag numbers(static & Rider) are what determines your correct spring rate. I weigh 190 and run a 19 kg on my Ohlins and it's about right. What do you have your shock settings at? I found that I had way to much Comp damping on mine and when I backed it off a bunch it felt much better/smoother/softer. The 18.34kg spring is only around 60 lbs lighter than your current spring so not a big change, so I would suggest you stay with the front .90's and try the 17.32 kg rear but only after checking the Sag numbers I mentioned. :dry: BTW there's another member that has both the springs your looking for as he needs a stiffer one, can't remember who at the moment, but it's in a recent suspension thread. :fing02: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer vfrcapn Posted June 17, 2009 Member Contributer Share Posted June 17, 2009 I also have the 17.32 Ohlins spring sitting on my workbench looking for a home if you're interested. PM me. +1 to what Bailey said though, double check the sag and especially the damping settings. I'm using the same 19.3 spring in my 5th gen, I'm 25 lbs more than you though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 there is a really good chance that if your sag is right, you have way too much compression damping, chances are better than not if you go lighter on the rear your front will be too stiff, and a high riding front and soft rear is really funky out of the turns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer canib Posted June 18, 2009 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 18, 2009 I found the manual here; http://www.ohlins.com/Products/OwnersManuals/OM_07241-02.pdf I can follow the setup instructions and see what happens. I set the spring preload when I first bought it, but I couldn't unload it enough. I had the hydraulic adjuster knob all the way unscrewed and still didn't have enough sag. The knob is currently on by about 1/2 turn... undo it by 1/2 and the thing will fall off. It looks like the manual says there is too much rebound and compression damping based on what I'm feeling. The ride in the rear end is way too hard. I feel _every_ bump in the road. If I remember correctly one of the mechanics I took it to turned the rebound damping waaay up, so that may be the problem. The sag in front is spot on. vfrcapn I will definitely keep you in mind, thanks. I think my preference at this point is to see if anyone has a 18.34 Kg/mm spring they want to trade for. I think keeping the percentage of changed stiffness similar will be good. I don't want too have hard in front and soft in rear. I think the slight change will help. Of course I need to figure out how to get the spring off... First though I'll put the shock back on and redo the setup instructions. Maybe the damping is just borked. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baileyrock Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 I found the manual here; http://www.ohlins.com/Products/OwnersManuals/OM_07241-02.pdfIt looks like the manual says there is too much rebound and compression damping based on what I'm feeling. The ride in the rear end is way too hard. I feel _every_ bump in the road. If I remember correctly one of the mechanics I took it to turned the rebound damping waaay up, so that may be the problem. The sag in front is spot on. Rebound controls how fast it lets the spring expand, too much rebound will cause what is called "Packing". This is when the shock compresses from a bump but never fully rebounds back before hitting the the next bump and the next bump, so the rear just stays down or packs down. This feels really bad and jarring! Sit on the bike and bounce up and down on the seat, look/feel how quickly/slowly the shock compresses and returns. Then I would back off both rebound & compression completely (count where each one was from full hard/in all the way first) to full soft then bounce up and down on the seat again. How fast does it move (up & dn) and did it soften up the feel of the rear? Basically the stiffer spring needs less Comp & more rebound to control the spring vs a lighter spring rate. Set rebound first(comp still full soft) you don't want the shock to snap back up, but you don't want it dragging either. Just a nice smooth but quick movement back up, maybe a sec.. Once that feels decent to you, then start adding comp, try 5 clicks then bounce, 5 more then bounce. Ballpark is equal speed both up and down and similar to the front, but I'm guessing that the front is stock other than the .90 springs? If so it most likely has to little rebound(front), comp might be OK with the stiffer spring. A balanced bike will have both the front and rear move( compress & rebound) at similar speeds in general, hard to dial in with none adjustable forks though! Go out in the garage and play right now and report back! :fing02: btw what kind of numbers(sag) were you getting at the back with No preload? Is there any Free sag(meaning is the shock topped out w/o you on it or can you lift up on the rear with no one on it and the shock extends a little(free or static sag)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer canib Posted June 18, 2009 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 18, 2009 Dood, Baileyrock this must be the 20th time you've given me awesome advice. I had rebound jacked up to 11!! (You know, it's like 10, but one more) Now I have to put the shock back on for resetting and testing. It's too late to do so today, but tomorrow after work and school I'll be getting greasy. THANKS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer vfrcapn Posted June 18, 2009 Member Contributer Share Posted June 18, 2009 No problem, let me know. I may need that 17Kg spring myself soon since I'm planning to lose about 35 lbs. :fing02: You'll need to take the shock to a shop to change the spring, you can't change them yourself like with Penske or others. It looks like Dave Moss's video's on suspension setup are off the site but they have some pdf's here. http://feelthetrack.com/index.html edit: ok, all hail baileyrock. :fing02: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veefer800Canuck Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 I have a brand-new Ohlins spring at home that is stiffer than the stock VFR spring, though I forget by how much. I can check the numbers on it if you are interested and get back to you. I was gonna put it on EBAY, but if you want it, then...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JamieDaugherty Posted June 18, 2009 Member Contributer Share Posted June 18, 2009 I currently have;Front - Sonic springs 0.90kg.mm Rear – Ohlins S46DR1S w/ 19.36Kg/mm spring 2006 VFR w/ ~14,000mi but only about 4k on the new sproingers. Those spring rates seem spot-on to me for a street rider. Set that sag and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer canib Posted June 19, 2009 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 19, 2009 Team VFRD, I though I'd post up my notes so hopefully they help someone else. One thing to note; I thought I bought it with a 19kg spring but when I looked at it recently I found it had a 17kg spring... Current Suspension; FRONT: Sonic Springs .90 (22% increase over stock) REAR: Ohlins w/ 17.32 Kg/mm (13% increase over stock) Stock Suspension; .74 kg springs up front 15.29 Kg spring in the rear Ohlins Info; S46DR1S (01092-69/170 L336) w/ 17.32 Kg/mm. Spring; 6.7" or 170mm long unsprung 01092 = spring length. -69 = spring rate. -69 equals 17.32 Kg/mm 170 = spring rate in Nmm (Newtons per mm I think) L336 = manufacture's batch number Features: S - Single tube D - Internal reservoir R1 - Adjustable rebound damping S - Hose mounted hydraulic spring preload adjuster Part number: OHHO 203 AKA HO 203 Year: 2002-09 Position: rear Length: 317.5 mm Stroke: 53.5 mm Sonic Springs Notes; Sonic springs recommends 1.0 spring rate for agressive riding / 0.95 for normal. Most peeps recommend .95 or .90 - I went with .90 which is a 22% increase. .85 would have been a 15% increase. Links I used for reasearch; Ohlins Shock Spring Conversion Chart, http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=38664 Ohlins S46DR1S info page; http://www.ohlins.com/Our-products/Motorcy...Touring/HO-203/ S46DR1S Ownser Manual; http://www.ohlins.com/Products/OwnersManuals/OM_07241-02.pdf S46DR1S Install Instructions; http://www.ohlins.com/Products/MountingIns...ns/MI_HO203.pdf Problems I had; The shock originally road like a hard tail. It was stiff as hell. The back end of the bike was way too high which screwed with the ride geometry. My weight was too far over the handles bars. Preload was 0. This caused the rear end to be too high. Rebound damping was screwed all the way up, so the shock never rebounded once is was compressed. This caused 'packing' where the shock is stiff becuase once it's loaded it never bounces back. I still need to dial in sag properly in the rear, but now it's pretty darn close now. Rebound damping is at the factory suggested setting and it's OK. I won't screw with rebound until after I've set rear sag and ridden on it for awhile. Front sag is set. I hated my bike for the last few months becuase I was over the handle bars and the ride was stiff as hell. It rides MUCH better now and I'm back in love with my bike. THANKS GUYS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 I'm curious if you had to space the front springs or were they the factory length? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baileyrock Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 canib, Any good results yet with the set-up??? :fing02: BR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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