Guest ke5aux Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Hello, all. Thanks for all of the info already posted. Little BG - my 4th gen VFR is my daily driver and has over 50k miles on it. It gets driven every day. About 2 weeks ago my bike would not start, so I changed out the X-year old Wal-Mart battery for a high end gel-cell 10 amp batt. After a few more starts the battery died again, so I checked and yep, at idle the bike was doing 12.2 volts, at 6k it was at 13.1 volts. Ordered a Rick's Motorsport RR. Pulled out the old one, and the plug was a little burned. One of the contacts was black and the wall was melted. I cleaned it out, installed the new RR and it worked fine for (13v at idle, 14v @ 5k) about a week. This morning I try starting the bike after helping a stranded Harley rider on the freeway and hear the dreaded "Waaat, waaaat, click click click click" I pulled off my seat and the RR was really hot. Does anyone make a kick-start for these things, because I'm tired of having to push start it? Waiting to get home and pull all of that off again. My concerns are: is the wiring fried? If it is the RR, what causes them to fail so frequently. And apparently BikeBandit.com says that all electrical parts are sold "as-is." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tightwad Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Hello, all. Thanks for all of the info already posted.Little BG - my 4th gen VFR is my daily driver and has over 50k miles on it. It gets driven every day. About 2 weeks ago my bike would not start, so I changed out the X-year old Wal-Mart battery for a high end gel-cell 10 amp batt. After a few more starts the battery died again, so I checked and yep, at idle the bike was doing 12.2 volts, at 6k it was at 13.1 volts. Ordered a Rick's Motorsport RR. Pulled out the old one, and the plug was a little burned. One of the contacts was black and the wall was melted. I cleaned it out, installed the new RR and it worked fine for (13v at idle, 14v @ 5k) about a week. This morning I try starting the bike after helping a stranded Harley rider on the freeway and hear the dreaded "Waaat, waaaat, click click click click" I pulled off my seat and the RR was really hot. Does anyone make a kick-start for these things, because I'm tired of having to push start it? Waiting to get home and pull all of that off again. My concerns are: is the wiring fried? If it is the RR, what causes them to fail so frequently. And apparently BikeBandit.com says that all electrical parts are sold "as-is." Ricks Regulators have a 1 year warranty, BikeBandit just doesn't want to take the bother to send it to them to test. The warranty is through BikeBandit, not your personally. I have sent R/Rs back to have them tested before when Customers had problems with them. Most likely the issue is in the wiring, and possibly in your Stator. When the wiring burned, it put stress on other parts. I would: Charge the battery fully, using a regular charger not a trickle charger (trickle charger should not be used for discharged battery, but rather to maintain charge). With R/R disconnected, check the Stator for proper A/C charging at 5000 RPM...you should read ~55 volts A/C current between each 2 pairs of yellow wires. Check for continuity to ground on each wire...there should be none, and for continuity between each wire when not running...it should be low. Replace burned wires...Connector is the expensive part, it has a funky connector. Ricks sells the connectors for about $11 if you need them alone. I make a VFRness for the 90-97 models that also replaces all the wires which you can buy if needed. Have the R/R tested to confirm it is ok inside, the Diodes could be fried. Doing just 1 of the 3 things will pretty much mean you have more problems later....check/clean all connections etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Ok so I tested all of the components. The wiring sucks - barely any ground. I tested the stator. Everything checked out ok EXCEPT that at 4k rpm it was about 55vac but at 5k rpm it was 70vac. Is it over-charging? I also tested both the new and old rectifier by the service manual. They have resistance charts, IE what the resistance should be between the prongs on the RR. The old one tested perfectly, although I know it doesn't work. The new one tested out ok except for pins 2 and 5 had infinite resistance. I'm redoing all of the wires right now. with heavier gauge. Is the stator voltage too high? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tightwad Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Stator voltage sounds ok....not likely you get it too high really, that would require different windings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer rangemaster Posted February 26, 2009 Member Contributer Share Posted February 26, 2009 From another post a few days ago. I did all this because Tightwad hadn't developed his wiring fix for the 4th GENs yet or I would have done that . Your observation about the ground(s) is right on. That and the goofy wiring cause the problems. :blink: I think to fix the VFRs shoddy electrics it's an all or nothing procedure. If you fix one thing, the next weak spot gets overloaded. When I mounted it I traced the base of the R/R on to the metal plate on the frame and removed all the paint, and used a very thin coat of thermal paste between the R/R and the frame. I also did the computer fan addition (It gets hot in Albuquerque.) Ran heavier wires all the way from the stator to the R/R (soldered connection) eliminating the connector on the right side of the engine. Ran a MUCH heavier negative wire directly to the frame ground on the right side of the bike. Used a longer, copper plated bolt on the ground to enhance the connection. Ran a MUCH heavier wire with a 20 amp in-line fuse directly to the positive terminal on the battery. Ran a MUCH heavier wire from the battery negative terminal to the same right side of the bike frame ground. Important to replace the stock 30 amp fuse with a 20 to prevent a short from frying the wiring harness, depending where/if it happens. ALL splices were soldered and sealed with heat shrink tubing. ALL connections were treated with CAIG De-Oxit then Pro Gold. Don't use the spray, use the liquid or gel w/ Q-Tips. This took a relaxing weekend and was well worth it. All voltages are within spec, R/R is just "very warm' to the touch- even after a 25 mile stop and go commute in 95-100 degree temps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 I am a little lost about my RR's testing. The service manual directs to test resistance between the prongs of the RR using this chart I did. My original RR tested perfectly. The new one from Rick's was ok but there was no continuity/resistance between pins 1 and 5 or 2 and 5. So it looks to me like the diode in the new RR is dead. Am I right and should send the new RR back or do I need to test it under load? In either case, why did my original OEM RR test ok? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer swas Posted February 26, 2009 Member Contributer Share Posted February 26, 2009 Ordered a Rick's Motorsport RR. Pulled out the old one, and the plug was a little burned. One of the contacts was black and the wall was melted. I cleaned it out, installed the new RR and it worked fine for (13v at idle, 14v @ 5k) about a week. Did you try the original RR back in the bike after you cleaned up the burnt terminals? The high resistance joint may have been it's only problem. Cleaning those terminals is only a temporary measure, they are better replaced. I realise those in the RR are impossible to replace! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Did you try the original RR back in the bike after you cleaned up the burnt terminals? The high resistance joint may have been it's only problem.Cleaning those terminals is only a temporary measure, they are better replaced. I realise those in the RR are impossible to replace! One of the prongs in the old RR is melted at the base. I am currently reworking the wiring with 12 and 14 gauge wire and doing the aforementioned individual cables for ground and positive to RR. Spoke with a tech at Rick's - she said that they use a special tester for the RR and they don't really have any figures or tips for testing them with a multimeter. So I am sending the RR back to BikeBandit as they promised to replace it. The main issue I ran into was soldering the wires coming from the stator. They are aluminum, while the wires I have are copper. It was pretty tough to solder. Is mixing metals like that ok? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted February 26, 2009 Member Contributer Share Posted February 26, 2009 . Ricks sells the connectors for about $11 if you need them alone. that is a bit steep........ You better go for a complete VFRness............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 Here is my update. I re-did all of the wiring with 14 and 12 AUG wiring. I used the picture on wiremybike.com VFRness as a guide. Even with the old rectifier I am now getting 14 volts. No plug, just using some quick connects (spade) for the RR pins. Sent the Rick's RR back as it was faulty. Ordered the plug from Ricks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tightwad Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 . Ricks sells the connectors for about $11 if you need them alone. that is a bit steep........ You better go for a complete VFRness............ Thanks Dutchy.....your bribe is in the mail....I didn't try to pronounce your address.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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