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BiKenG

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BiKenG last won the day on December 6 2017

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About BiKenG

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    World Superbike Racer

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  • Location
    Surrey, UK
  • In My Garage:
    VFR1200SP-eVo4
    CBR1000FFX
    VTR1000-eVo2
    VFR800S
    RCBX1000
    CRF450X
    Montesa 4RT
    Triumph ThruxtonR

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  1. Gauges

    I know what you're saying but there are caveats. E.g. the VFR1200 uses a Honda proprietary serial communication link between ECU and gauge cluster that transmits info including HISS, gear position, oil pressure, engine management and others and they (Honda) do NOT want you to know the actual protocol. They don't publish it and won't tell you and that makes matching gauge clusters on bikes like this well nigh impossible. But I'm still working on it... I also discovered that although the VFR1200 models (F and X) are so very similar, it can catch you out. One would imagine that most of the wiring harness was common, but despite the fact that they both employ the same physical connector to their respective gauge clusters and both carry the exact same signals using the exact same wires, they are NOT in the same positions in that connector. So woe betide anyone who thinks they can simply connect up either dash to either bike. In order to use the CrossTourer dash on my VFR1200F based eVo4 I had to remove all the wire terminals from the connector and refit them in different pin positions. Then it does work, but I hate to think what would occur if you didn't reposition them before plugging it in. There is also the problem that not all fuel gauges operate at the same signal range, so dash swapping tends to throw up issues with fuel gauges too. There are adapters available to correct the readings, but it's something to be aware of. Much as I like a good 'digital' display, with many coloured display screens being used these days, there is another issue I've not seen mentioned. First of all, despite the cheapness of the basic components, the dash/gauge cluster of a modern bike, e.g. Honda can be around £1,000. Some more, some less. Insanely overpriced, but that's commonplace these days. Many of us have no doubt had to replace a warning/illumination bulb in gauges, but these are all now LEDs on the main board and although less likely to fail than an incandescent bulb, if/when they do, you have to buy a whole new dash at the aforementioned eye-wateringly expensive price. All just because a single light has failed. To me this is preposterous. £1,000 just to fix what used to be a simple bulb that cost almost nothing. While on the subject of wiring and costs, anyone checked on the price of a VFR1200F wiring harness. £1,500. I kid you not. Well, £1,486 to be precise at the last check. Am I the only one who sees how utterly unacceptable this is? Anyway, I have now settled on a 6th Gen dash/gauge cluster as suitable for my requirements. So if anyone has one available to sell...
  2. 5th Gen Engine Modifications

    Those sensors would stop the spark and/or fuel, so if you have those, the sensors are unlikely to be at fault. Likewise the pulse generator must be working. Is it firing at all or just simply turning over? Basically, if you have air, fuel, compression, spark, and they're occurring at the right time, the engine must run. So one of those factors must be missing or wrong. Do you have a clip-on strobe light? Really useful to help diagnose ignition/timing issues.
  3. RC36.2 (4th Gen) Fuel Injection discussion

    Good to know. Thanks for that. A typical Honda MAP sensor (I just checked for the RVT1000) is £256. So for the CBX, that would be prohibitive. I also have a VTR1000F FireStorm (er, Super Hawk in the US?) that I'd like to inject. So another project to keep me busy. Possibly do that before the CBX. Just see how everything else pans out.
  4. RC36.2 (4th Gen) Fuel Injection discussion

    Yes, I've read most of it, but a power cut here prevented me from finishing it. I will go back and read the rest though. It has encouraged me to start looking again at adding CNC capability to my mill. That would be enormously helpful in so many ways. But I digress... I understand that modifying the TBs to suit won't be trivial, but Patrik and Durbahn both use the TBs from a totally different bike and then had to totally create their own maps etc. from scratch. I am currently of the opinion that using 5th Gen TBs will not actually be as difficult although I may change my mind once I start hacking them. However, if I can get the TBs to fit, the rest of the system is essentially off-the-shelf, just by using the 800 parts and it should even run like that with just minor tuning required with a PC. All that is a BIG advantage by using the VFR800 parts. I do have to add a Cam sensor, but that's been done before. Of course the first requirement is that I can get the TBs to fit and I'm waiting on a set of 5th Gens I can start work on. Currently I'm firmly of the opinion that it will be easier than modifying the carbs, but I guess I'll soon be finding out if I'm right or wrong on that. It's all good clean fun though.
  5. RC36.2 (4th Gen) Fuel Injection discussion

    I see, so there's a MAP sensor for each cylinder. I have a funny feeling Honda MAP sensors are rather expensive, but I guess he's using a more cost effective sensor. All food for thought re the CBX, but is another reason for grafting the 800s injection onto the 750 as provided it can physically be done, then it's relatively simple as there's a ready made wiring harness with all the required sensors and just the one ECU module. No other ancillary electronics required. Well, apart from a Power Commander or equivalent. At least I assume it will need some tweaking, although just have to see on that once it's running.
  6. RC36.2 (4th Gen) Fuel Injection discussion

    Aha, I've been thinking along those lines too, using the VFR750's carbs and I believe an early Kawasaki 900/1000 (I forget which) had a similar injector rail with suitable injectors. I've not discounted it and will be looking into that and the MicroSquirt for a similar project to inject a CBX1000 (6 cylinder), but that's further down the line. For this VFR750 I kinda want to make it as Honda as possible, so priority will be to see if I can use the 800 parts. If I can't use those TBs, I'll look for alternative TBs and if that fails, then it's modify carb time and a different ECU. But it's always interesting to see what others are doing to inject their bikes, even more so with regard to my CBX project. How does the MS use MAP sensor output to detect engine position? If the MAP sensor is connected to all intakes, how does it know which pulse is for which cylinder? BTW, why did you choose the MS over say Motec?.
  7. RC36.2 (4th Gen) Fuel Injection discussion

    Aha, first of all, yes those TBs will be perfect to try and fit, thanks, much appreciated. Secondly, very interested to hear what you say about the 3rd Gen carbs being bigger - music to my ears. Since 4th Gen rubbers are too small to accept the TBs, there's hope that 3rd Gen rubbers may be better, i.e. actually fit. I need to find a good (i.e. flexible) set of 3rd Gen rubbers and try to squeeze those TBs in.
  8. RC36.2 (4th Gen) Fuel Injection discussion

    Puzzling that despite what JZH's picture seems to show, those TBs on the right will NOT fit into the intake rubbers for the carbs on the left as the TBs are so much bigger. Really doesn't look that way in the photo. Mind you, I was trying it with 6th Gen. TBs. Could they be bigger? But it does explain from where I got my previous optimism about splitting the TBs. The 5th Gen. TBs as shown above are the ones I first thought about splitting and it looks entirely feasible. The 6th Gen. ones, not so, hence my more recent less optimistic, post. Not only are the castings less favourable to splitting, but also the upper intake connection to the airbox is siamesed on the 6th Gen, but separate on the 5th Gen. which is far preferable. No reason to not use 5th Gen. TBs on this 750 project so I just need to find some 5th Gen. TBs to cut. Don't 'spose you want to sell yours John? As far as I know the 6th Gen got 8 point injectors but then upped it to 12 point in 2006. At least the parts list shows different part numbers for the injectors themselves which supports that. However how can one distinguish between TBs with 8 point injectors and the later TBs with 12 point injectors. Obviously counting the injector holes would be tricky, but is there some other way to identify TBs as early or later 6th Gen? One other question to which someone might know the answer - Is it possible to fit the later multipoint injectors into the 5th Gen. TBs? Usually the whole TB is swapped if you want the later injectors, but would they actually fit? I suspect not, but don't have both here to try it. Anyone know the answer?
  9. RC36.2 (4th Gen) Fuel Injection discussion

    Taking a good look at the 800's TBs, the way they're cast is not how I remember from previously and separating them won't be as simple as I thought. May be impossible depending on if there's any internal cross passageways I cannot see. Hope not, but anyway I started looking at alternative TBs. First of all I discovered that the 929 FireBlade seems to have 2 pairs, just like all the other Hondas and not the 4 separate units as I have seen stated and as I mentioned in a previous post in response to Mohawk. So whoever wrote that is simply wrong. As Durbahn discovered, the GSX-R750 is a good candidate with 4 individual TBs. But at 45mm intake ID they'll make the rubber matching problem worse. Unfortunately, although the GSX-R600 uses smaller TBs that might fit nicely, they also use ECU controlled secondary butterflies and that's just not gonna work with the VFR. So nothing's falling into place at the moment:-( Just have to keep looking.
  10. RC36.2 (4th Gen) Fuel Injection discussion

    Fallen at the first hurdle unfortunately. It would appear the 800's throttle bodies are significantly larger than the 4th Gen carbs :-( There's no way that I can see the injection TB fitting into a 4th Gen intake rubber. I pushed hard but it's not even close. Also the internal shape is wrong as it partially obscures the actual injector. The 800's intake rubbers are shaped around the injector to not obscure the fuel pulses, but of course the RC36 intake rubbers don't have that. I also tried to fit the 800's intake rubbers onto the 4th Gen intakes. It's closer, but not ideal. They slip on very easily of course as they're basically too big and they don't grip the intakes at all. There's a mm or more of movement side to side - until you tighten the clamp screw. It is actually possible to squeeze the rubber onto the intake stubs. They're then quite firm although it is possible to twist them around if you grip them well and try hard enough. The stubs seem longer than the 800's as the rubbers are not snug up against the head. There's a gap. However, that wouldn't matter if the rubber can form a good tight seal onto the stubs. I think a better type of screw clip would have a better chance of getting a good seal. But I'm not sure of the long term implications of the rubber being compressed like that and whether any possible good seal would last. So, 4th Gen intake rubbers are a non starter (damn, just wasted £25 on them) but 6th Gen rubbers are a possibility, although not ideal. So the search is still on... Do any of the pervious carb models have a larger intake/carb diameter than the 4th Gen? That might help.
  11. RC36.2 (4th Gen) Fuel Injection discussion

    What's the difference in the intakes of the VFR versions, i.e. the Gen 3 to 6? I'm pondering the possible fit of throttle bodies and intake rubbers. Have 800 TBs varied in size over the years? I know the injectors have changed a couple of times, but what about the intake sizes, have they altered at all? Likewise, did the carb size change between the 3rd and the 4th Gen bikes? I have some 800 TBs (late 5th Gen and a 6th Gen) and will soon have some 4th Gen intake rubbers to compare to. But I've no obvious way of knowing if there were any differences from the items I have, without buying one of everything of course. I suspect all the 800 have the same size intakes and likewise the RC36 models, but can anyone confirm or refute this?
  12. Replace '97 with a '01????

    I'm with Rogue_Biker all the way.
  13. 99 VFR Replacement tach/speedo unit

    Since this topic is so appropriate, I thought I'd carry on here rather than start a new one. I'm putting together a bike with a dash from another so the odometer reading will be wrong. Therefore I'm looking for someone who can correct the mileage for a set of 6th Gen gauges. I found this thread and had a look at greenvfr's profile, but no email. I've sent a pm but as he's not visited the site in 5 years I suspect he won't receive it. Anyone got better contact details for him and/or suggest anyone else in the UK who could do this?
  14. Replace '97 with a '01????

    Letting the electronics control the bike to go faster doesn't constitute 'improving' your riding in my books. I cannot overstate how I fundamentally disagree with your point of view. Valentino Rossi is no hero of mine, but he is to many and he has constantly argued against the excessive use of electronics in MotoGP as it detracts from the ability of a rider to make the difference. It just comes down to opening the throttle and trusting the electronics do their job and where's the skill in that. But what does he know. I don't ride motorcycles to be safe. I ride because they're thrilling and fun, all the more so the better you learn to ride. If I want to be safe, I'll take the car. Make motorcycles 'safe' like that and they'll be no fun. People don't climb mountains because it's safe. Risk is what makes something fun. Sure, minimise the risk, but not at the expense of the thrill. Once you do that, there's no point doing it in the first place. Of course I understand that it's hard to avoid the electronics these days, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with them and is one reason I'm planning a number of VFR750/800 based projects. If I ever buy a bike with what I would consider excessive electronics, it will be despite the electronics and certainly not because of. Ultimately I think it's rather sad that so many bikers these days seem to think you have to have all these electronics. Learn to ride the bike rather than waste concentration on having to figure out how to change engine modes while riding or generally faffing about with the dash display. Really, riding a bike is way more fun if you don't have all that to contend with and distract you. I'm not alone in thinking this, as exemplified by the upsurge in retro styling and general interest in older bikes. It will all become irrelevant anyway once hydrocarbon fuels are banned, even if motorcycles themselves are not banned from the roads by then.
  15. RC36.2 (4th Gen) Fuel Injection discussion

    I'm not convinced they would be simpler. I'd have more to do figuring out how to assemble them in the correct rigid layout. Besides, I really think the larger choke diameters would not work in my favour and require far more of a change to fuelling from a basic 800. Probably a better option would be to use those from a CBR900RRY (929). They are similarly separate units, 40mm and also from Honda :-) At the end of the day, I'll probably use whatever best suits the RC36's inlet tracts and rubbers.
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