2004 Vfr800 Charging System Questions

[RedDawn]

Hi all! I just acquired a 2004 VFR800 (non ABS) with 29,000 miles on it. All was well for about 200 miles, and then it died. The person riding in front of me said that the headlights started getting dimmer and dimmer and then went out just shortly before I lost power. I got the bike home (fortunately only ~70 miles from home), and started diagnosing.

The PO was not sure whether the RR or stator has ever been replaced. The battery was replaced in the past year or two with a Battery Tender Lithium Ion battery.

The battery was dead, so I charged that. When I started testing, it was sitting at 13.14V. Checked again this morning, and it's sitting at 13.13V so the battery seems to be OK. I tested everything and concluded that I had zero charging going on but it seems like the stator is OK(?). In the process of testing, I found that the connections between the stator and RR had overheated and were likely non-conductive. The char looks recent so I suspect they melted/charred during my ride. I rewired the connectors and tested again. Results:

First test (before rewiring, with low beams on):

IGN Bike Measured Reading
OFF OFF BAT - + 13.14V
ON OFF BAT - + 12.78V
ON IDLE BAT - + 13.00V (rising)
ON 2500RPM BAT - + 12.50V (falling)
ON 5000RPM BAT - + 12.50V (falling)

Stator tests:

Impedance between phases: AB ~1ohm, AC ~1ohm, BC ~.9ohm
Impedance to ground: A->G infinte, B->G infinite, C->G infinite

AC Voltage:
IDLE AB 24.2 AC 24.5 BC 23.9
5K AB 64.5 AC 64.5 BC 65

After replacing yellow stator connections (low beams on):

ON IDLE BAT - + 13.20V (rising)
ON 2500RPM BAT - + 13.45V (rising)
ON 5000RPM BAT - + 13.58V (rising)

A few notes:

• For the impedance tests, the ohmmeter that I am using is not close to instantaneous. When I put the leads directly against one another it rapidly declines from 200ohm to 5 then 3 then 2 then 1.5 then 1.4 then 1.3 and so on. With each downward tick it takes longer (from 200-1.5 takes a second or two, then it takes a few seconds from 1.5 to 1.0, and then approximately ten seconds per 0.1 tick beyond that. I suspect that the stator impedances are lower than 1.0 or 0.9, but I either need a new meter or to be dramatically more patient waiting for it to settle.
• For the "rising" and "falling" statements, once the voltmeter settled on a voltage (which is fairly instantaneous), I am stating that the voltage is slowly ticking upward or downward. Over the course of 30 seconds at a particular RPM, I would se a rise or fall of approximately 0.15-0.50 volts.
• There are no electrical accessories on the bike.

After fixing the stator->RR connections, when I ran the 5k RPM voltage test I saw the 30A fuse wire start smoking and it was quite hot to the touch.

All of that leads me to some questions:

1. Is there anything about a lithium ion battery that would result in me not seeing a higher voltage across the terminals? I've never dealt with a lithium ion battery in a car/bike before so want to make sure that I should expect the same testing behavior as I would a conventional battery.
2. At this point I am planning to rewire the bike (mirroring a VFRness) or order a VFRness and install that. Also, following my tests, I'm going to rewire my crimp connectors (stator<-->RR) with soldered connections. Should I go ahead and order a RR at this point too or do my results seem potentially within the realm of "normal" for overheated/deteriorated wiring? Should I get the wiring squared away, test again, and then decide whether to acquire an RR?
3. In general are the failures frequent enough that I should just keep a spare RR on hand (or on the bike when I'm on trips)?
4. Is there an expected lifespan for a Honda OEM RR? Does 29k miles make it "due" for replacement?
5. Am I way off base on anything I've said that I need to be corrected on?

Thank you in advance!

[Switchblade]

Do you have Honda type R\R. My 03 did not the like the NiCad battery type the battery pack itself got red hot. You mite want to try a AGM battery or switch to series type R\R.

Good info here https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vfrdiscussion.com%2Fforum%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcore%26module%3Dattach%26section%3Dattach%26attach_id%3D8336&ei=sD-cVd_UBszysAXzrYnIAw&usg=AFQjCNEpK02iPjOUxomKnYlo6g22gKVvaQ&sig2=RNtKRNXmzJ852UA_A6uUOQ&bvm=bv.96952980,d.b2w

Roll On VFRD..

[Allyance]

Your voltage readings look good. If your 30A fuse is getting hot, then it is passing a lot of current due to a heavy load. I don't have any experience with lithium motorcycle batteries, so I would go with Switchblades recommendations. I switched to a series R/R and hard wired my stator leads on my 03, and had no problems.

[RedDawn]

I have the stock Honda R/R. I have an AGM battery ordered and a VFRness. I'll look into a series R/R. Thanks guys.

[Switchblade]

I have the stock Honda R/R. I have an AGM battery ordered and a VFRness. I'll look into a series R/R. Thanks guys.

I think you will be ok.

ROLL ON VFRD !!

[RedDawn]

My Scorpion AGM battery arrived today. Put it on and everything sits at 14.5V (idle, 2.5K, 5K). No other changes (VFRness hasn't arrived yet).

Thanks for the tip, Switchblade!

Would you recommend acquiring a series R/R at this point, or hold off until this unit kicks the bucket?

[mello dude]

Recommend - FH020AA on www.roadstercycle.com -- There are hundreds out there with no problems.

[Switchblade]

My Scorpion AGM battery arrived today. Put it on and everything sits at 14.5V (idle, 2.5K, 5K). No other changes (VFRness hasn't arrived yet).

Thanks for the tip, Switchblade!

Would you recommend acquiring a series R/R at this point, or hold off until this unit kicks the bucket?

Yeah man anytime .

[RedDawn]

So, that fix lasted about 2,000 miles. The bike now has a VFRness on it, new AGM battery, and a voltmeter at the gauge cluster. Very consistently reading 14.3-14.5V unless the brake or high beam light was on across all RPMs. Yesterday I see voltages in the mid 13's and dipping into the 12s below 4k RPM.

My wiring looks good, but with the stator disconnected from the RR, I am seeing one leg idling around 4-5V (other two are around 17-20). At 5k RPM that leg climbs to 20V (other's are mid 50s and up). These measurements are with a hot, not cold engine. Impedances between legs and to ground look fine.

That means that it is time for a new stator, correct?

If I am replacing the stator, does that mean I should preventatively replace the R/R now as well?

[paulmeisterpk]

Sure sounds like the stator is on its way out to me. I would replace the R/R at the same time with a FH020AA like Mellow Dude mentioned earlier. I put one in mine after my Honda unit took a crap and it's been working well so far this year.

[mello dude]

Stator is toast,time for new.

[Switchblade]

Sure sounds like the stator is on its way out to me. I would replace the R/R at the same time with a FH020AA like Mellow Dude mentioned earlier. I put one in mine after my Honda unit took a crap and it's been working well so far this year.

+1

[RedDawn]

I've got a stator ordered. Looking at R/R's, is there any reason not to opt for a Shingdengen SH775 over the Shingdengen FH020AA?

[Switchblade]

I've got a stator ordered. Looking at R/R's, is there any reason not to opt for a Shingdengen SH775 over the Shingdengen FH020AA?

I like my SH775 and used the Eastern Beaver connectors.

http://www.easternbeaver.com.

[paulmeisterpk]

I think the SH775 is a shunt type regulator. The FH020AA is a Mosfet type. I am told that the Mosfet type R/Rs don't run quite as hot. Either way, it will get the job done.

[Gregg]

I think the SH775 is a shunt type regulator. The FH020AA is a Mosfet type. I am told that the Mosfet type R/Rs don't run quite as hot. Either way, it will get the job done.

From some other threads on this I've recently read, I believe the SH775 is a series type, not shunting.

I am in the process of upgrading the R/R and stator as well on my 98. The stator is out for a rewind at Custom Rewind, and the FH020AA was ordered from Roadstercycle. That is mounted and in, just need the stator to wire up the other plug. Hopefully should be in by the end of the week.

[zupatun]

I had similar symptoms originally, then the bike wouldn't start. I did all the electrosport tests and had the battery load tested (failed so I bought a new one). I finished the tests and I was getting bad AC readings on the stator even though resistance was good. I just got my stator back from Custom Rewind. I have the Stock Honda RR and I get 14.8V. Sounds like you are going good. I called the dude at Custom Rewind a couple days into the build--he ran a couple days behind his estimate, but it was less than a week turnaround.

Matt

[Gregg]

I called the dude at Custom Rewind a couple days into the build--he ran a couple days behind his estimate, but it was less than a week turnaround.

Matt

He had told me 2 day turnaround time once he received it. Tracking shows it delivered on Friday. I'm hoping I have it back by the end of the week / Saturday. Fingers crossed!

[Switchblade]

I think the SH775 is a shunt type regulator. The FH020AA is a Mosfet type. I am told that the Mosfet type R/Rs don't run quite as hot. Either way, it will get the job done.

From some other threads on this I've recently read, I believe the SH775 is a series type, not shunting.

I am in the process of upgrading the R/R and stator as well on my 98. The stator is out for a rewind at Custom Rewind, and the FH020AA was ordered from Roadstercycle. That is mounted and in, just need the stator to wire up the other plug. Hopefully should be in by the end of the week.

Your right .

And it never got even warm .

[RedDawn]

So I put a new stator in, and it's now testing well. I also put the SH775 RR onto the bike and have been having issues:

First, it is idling around 14-14.2V instead of 14.4ish. If I turn on the high beam, voltage drops to around 13.3V.

I took the bike for a ~4 mile ride (low beams, primarily at or above 5000RPM) and I found the voltage to decline (from ~14 to 13.3) the higher the RPM I was at. Then, at quite high RPM (10k+ not certain where exactly) it blew both charging fuses (20A factory harness, 20A VFRness harness). The RR was extremely hot. I've switched back to my old Honda RR, and voltage readings appear to be back to normal.

I've validated that the connectors all have good continuity.

Does this indicate that I got a faulty R/R?

Switchblade, with your SH775 do voltages appear the same as they did with your old shunt regulator or is behavior at all different?

[paulmeisterpk]

Unfortunately, I can't help you much here. I have the mosfet type regulator. Bump for you.

[Switchblade]

So I put a new stator in, and it's now testing well. I also put the SH775 RR onto the bike and have been having issues:

First, it is idling around 14-14.2V instead of 14.4ish. If I turn on the high beam, voltage drops to around 13.3V.

I took the bike for a ~4 mile ride (low beams, primarily at or above 5000RPM) and I found the voltage to decline (from ~14 to 13.3) the higher the RPM I was at. Then, at quite high RPM (10k+ not certain where exactly) it blew both charging fuses (20A factory harness, 20A VFRness harness). The RR was extremely hot. I've switched back to my old Honda RR, and voltage readings appear to be back to normal.

I've validated that the connectors all have good continuity.

Does this indicate that I got a faulty R/R?

Switchblade, with your SH775 do voltages appear the same as they did with your old shunt regulator or is behavior at all different?

14.2 at idle and the same at 5000 r.p.m 13.7 with high beams on. You could have got a bad R\R but not likely .

Something else I remember about SH775 the mounting holes were painted and at first I was not getting a good ground so sanded the sides of the frame on the SH775 and did the bike frame also. I also have a ground wire from one of the R\R mounting bolts to the frame . 12ga I believe .

[wagzhp]

Following, as I'd like to try the SH775 as my next R/R. The idea of the R/R taking only as much current from the stator as the system needs seems like a great way to keep the stator cool and extend its life.