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BrianF

CCT Plunger and Cap Damage

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Need some help from the 6th gen experts here - changing my clattering, rattling CCTs today. Rear went fine, easy as pie. Then I gently extracted the front one so as to not disturb the metal cap annnnnddddd out came a CCT with no cap at all, just a rubber bumper completely destroyed and worn through all the way to the plunger’s metal base (see attached pic).

 

I guess I now know the source of the god-awful noises coming from the motor, but any ideas on how this could happen? Could the PO have installed without the metal cap - or could the cap somehow come off while under tension (I assume not)? If the cap was in there somewhere, I’m guessing that would’ve been catastrophic already.

 

I also presume those lost little rubber bits are now swimming in the engine - could that cause major damage if it hasn’t already? 

 

As background, I’ve been getting some rattling above 3.5-4K rpm for the last 5000 miles or so, and very loud metallic clatter from the front bank the last time I started the motor - though it idled and revved okay. None of the usual failing CCT idle rattles, but I just had a hunch as it’s the Achilles heel and always a good place to start. 

 

Any advice is appreciated, as always. 

 

AA8216C1-46EB-475F-80F5-AA73EF2D9A61.jpeg

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Sorry for your woes. Can you contact the previous owner and ask if he did a change of the CCTs and forgot to fit or dropped the cap?

 

From here, I would remove the exhaust to allow you to drop off the sump. Approx 12 bolts. You have to drop the exhaust to remove the sump as the strainer and prv will stop you pulling the sump out of the way. Hopefully you will find the metal cap undamaged in the bottom of the sump. If there is no cap I would definitely be trying to get an answer from the previous owner. Once removed you will be able to remove the oil pick up strainer and clean out all of the rubber bits from the CCT. There are a few o rings that you will need to replace when you button it back up. Be aware there is no gasket between the sump and engine, just some Honda sealant. 

 

Let us know how you get on.

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19 minutes ago, Marooncobra said:

Sorry for your woes. Can you contact the previous owner and ask if he did a change of the CCTs and forgot to fit or dropped the cap?

 

From here, I would remove the exhaust to allow you to drop off the sump. Approx 12 bolts. You have to drop the exhaust to remove the sump as the strainer and prv will stop you pulling the sump out of the way. Hopefully you will find the metal cap undamaged in the bottom of the sump. If there is no cap I would definitely be trying to get an answer from the previous owner. Once removed you will be able to remove the oil pick up strainer and clean out all of the rubber bits from the CCT. There are a few o rings that you will need to replace when you button it back up. Be aware there is no gasket between the sump and engine, just some Honda sealant. 

 

Let us know how you get on.

I did text the previous owner, he's a VFRD'er as well. Hopefully will hear back from him soon.

 

Cap or no cap I guess I'll need to clear the strainer before buttoning it all back up - thanks for the info on that. Gives me some hope!

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My best learned speculation is the CCT was installed with out first
retracting the center plunger... the rubber cap was damaged as the 2
CCT bolts homed in the Tensioner to the head... you might want to
inspect the CCT slipper for damage...

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The story continues...

 

Confirmed last week with the PO that he was pretty sure did not install the metal cap on the front CCT about 19k miles ago. Let that serve as a lesson to all - use the cap or your rubber shall explode and the engine could become pregnant. 

 

Today I drained the oil, took off the exhaust, cleaned out a few rubber bits from the sump, sealed it back up, filled the oil, replaced the front CCT (now with cap!), and meticulously put everything back together. Turned the crank a couple of times using the access hole (where I'd also set to TDC on 3 (rear) and 1 (front) to be safe) and all seemed good. Double checked all the connections and vacuum hoses just to be sure.

 

Once all was reassembled I hit the starter and got a colossal rattle for about 3-5 revolutions of the crank. Cycled the ignition and tried again, and now it will turn over just fine (sounds totally normal) but does not fire. No FI light, kill switch on, neutral, stand up/down doesn't make a difference. Fuel pump primes fine. 

 

Any ideas? Timing issue? Those who have replaced CCTs have there been any untoward noises the first time you've fired it up?

 

 

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Hi Brian. Have replaced CCT,s before with no ill after effects. My concern is that the POs reason for not fitting the steel cap surely would be that he either forgot to transfer it from the old one or, when he removed it the steel cap became dislodged which can easily happen, and as we know, a new CCT doesn't come with the steel cap!

I remember reading of a guy who did this but was able to somehow extract the cap using a small strong magnet and pliers. You can see from the picture that the forward CCT cap could get trapped just below the hole. Changing a CCT should in no way effect your starting, could you have possibly dislodged the Cam Pulse sensor plug, opposite the CCT? Perhaps the initial noise "colossal rattle" was just the lack of oil pressure.

Good Luck.

image.jpeg

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14 hours ago, Grum said:

Hi Brian. Have replaced CCT,s before with no ill after effects. My concern is that the POs reason for not fitting the steel cap surely would be that he either forgot to transfer it from the old one or, when he removed it the steel cap became dislodged which can easily happen, and as we know, a new CCT doesn't come with the steel cap!

I remember reading of a guy who did this but was able to somehow extract the cap using a small strong magnet and pliers. You can see from the picture that the forward CCT cap could get trapped just below the hole. Changing a CCT should in no way effect your starting, could you have possibly dislodged the Cam Pulse sensor plug, opposite the CCT? Perhaps the initial noise "colossal rattle" was just the lack of oil pressure.

Good Luck.

 

He didn't transfer it over from the old one. I checked with my little snakey-magnet just for piece of mind. Figured if it made it 20k without any issues then it must be fine regardless.

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Another update: got it “running.” A blue plug under the tank (fuel sender I think?) had become slightly disconnected despite having not been touched. A lesson learned for the turn-the-tank-around-on-the-seat-rails method.

 

I need about 1/3 throttle to even keep it running (see video) - it dies immediately otherwise. Tried to give it a quick WOT and it wouldn’t rev over 3k. There is a rather loud tick from the front cylinder bank that I’ve never heard before, and I have some black smoke coming from the left muffler. 

 

Any guesses?

 

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