Vfr800 -99-00 Pc V Problems

[zaumer]

Hi.

I have tried to search to solve this problem but i haven´t found solution.

So i install PC V fo vfr800 -99-00 model.

And i have read many topics where they said that there is no problems.

I have tried that with and without O2 sensors but it wont work.

It keeps struggling and jumping in every RPM range.

I have tried different maps(convert PC III to PCV) and zero map but always is same problem.

Bike wont work at all, it jumps like kangaroo :-)

Is there anything that i have to do or try? Or do i have to buy PC III

One thing that i havent try is put 6th gen zero map in PCV.

What do think? Is it possible that it harms something?

[Knight]

Hi Zaumer,

You may not need it at this stage, but just FYI I have written up everything I know on the 5th gen Power Commander version issues here:

http://vfrworld.com/forums/entry.php/422-Power-Commander-V-on-a-5th-generation-VFR800

* You may use a 6th generation Power Commander V part #16-005 on a 5th generation VFR800.

* The 8th generation part cannot be used. Per Dynojet, "The PC5 (PN: 16-051) is only compatible with 2014-2015 VFR800 models. "

I am using the 6th gen part on my 1999 with no issues. Thus if you have the 6th gen part, re-examine any connections that you have fiddled with recently. Did any vacuum hoses get kinked when the tank was put back into place? Surging can mean lean running, so fuel starvation could be the problem.

As you examine the bike keep it in your mind that the PC unit could potentially be bad. Where did you obtain it? Is it brand new?

Since this bike does not have O2 sensors please explain your comment about sensors. Did you add an O2 sensor to this bike? Then did you add the Autotune or Wide Band 2?

Regarding maps: When I imported the PCIII map it preserved the timing table. The PCV does not support timing so this map would not load to the unit. That is a bug in the import. Stupid programmers. To get around it, I copied the values on the screen after the import to a PCV zero map. Poof, success in uploading it.

The PCV zero map is a zero map no matter what bike it is. There is no harm whatsoever. It is the same as not using the Power Commander at all.

[zaumer]

Hi.

I have read that threat that you have make earlier about compatible issues. That´s why i buy it.

- Part number is 16-005 so it should be compatible.

Primary Power Commander V
Interface: USB
Hardware Version: 1
Bootloader Version: 0.0.0.19
Firmware Version: 0.1.13.1
Guid: D885B69D4AAFB40880F920BDD389F646
Serial Number: XXXXXXXXX
Model Number: B16-005
Map Type: 128

- I checked every contacts and fuel lines and those seems to be ok, and bike works fine when i take commander out.

- I bought this unit from second hand, but ex-owner said that it works fine and he take it off from bike(VFR800 -03) when he sold his bike.

So i think that it should be ok. Of course it still can be bad. Is there anyway to test it?

- My bike is registered in 2000 but it still have manual"choke" so i think that it´s -99 model?

I have read that this automatic"choke" came in -00? am i right?

It have two O2 sensors in pipes.

I have to try that unit again with -03 zero map and check if that works...

But one thing where i see difference on -99 and -03 maps in Advanced/demote map.

In older model in Target AFR is blank and in newer moldel tou cant but it blank. It´s always in Basic.

And auto tune place is set in TPS and couldn´t set in blank.

Rest of settings in configure site:

- Configure Feature enables and Input selections: everything is disabled/off

- Temperature and pressure both is disabled/off

[Knight]

The sticker on the frame indicates the year 2000, correct? Make sure and update your profile to reflect this correction.

I agree with you that the wax idle was introduced in 2000. Two stock O2 sensors are also indicative of the 2000 since the 99 did not have them. Thus it sounds like the prior owner removed the wax unit and added the control lever. I have seen people make this change here. This is a great upgrade to give you control of the warm up :) So far we are presuming that there was not an engine swap or other larger changes.

Now that I know it is a 2000 with stock sensors I am beginning to understand what you meant about testing with and without the O2 sensors. They need to be disabled for the fuel controller to work, otherwise they will keep trying to override it and the bike will just repetitively surge. Did you follow procedures from others here when disabling them? The surging points to the O2 sensors as being the issue.

[zaumer]

Ok. So it´s -00 version without wax unit. I don´t think that engine or others where swapped..

I put those O2 eliminators in place(came with PCV) but results was exactly same than without those.

[Knight]

Is the FI light on? I am hoping you would say "yes" which would indicate that the eliminator is not working correctly.

This is a long shot given the simplicity of the eliminators but check the pins/connections on the eliminators. Since this is used you are looking for damage or wear, such as a metal connector is loose or even missing.

If there is any ambiguity you can try inserting your own resistors as a substitute:

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/20350-make-your-own-o2-sensor-eliminators/

Another long shot: Perhaps disconnect the battery and let all of the electronics drain and reset.

Got a buddy with a PCV? Will they let you plug it in to test it? That can verify if yours is bad.

[zaumer]

No FI light is off.. It burns only when i start bike. All the pins are ok and there is no damage anywhere, everything looks fine.

No one my friends have pcV so i cant test that.

And one weird thing is that bikes frame number starts JH2RC46B witch has made -98-00 so this my bike is some kind of cross model :-)

And in original german(1st registration land is german 3.2.2000) registration paper shows that this is 72kw model..

[Knight]

There is a ground wire, right? Is it connected to to the negative battery terminal?

The next step may be asking Dynojet if they can test the PC.

[zaumer]

Yes there is ground wire and it´s connected..

How about those settings that i wrote earlier?

Do i have to enable some of those?

[Knight]

You edited it just after I finished writing, so I missed that information.

You do not have an AutoTune unit, right?

It sounds like AutoTune is on, is that right? If yes it must be shut off. I don't have my unit here so I cannot connect and compare to verify the indicators for AutoTune. But if the PC thinks AT is on, that is a problem.

If you have not done this then load the latest firmware to the device. If it is the same version that is okay, as loading firmware will reset the device and would clear up any corrupt programming.

[zaumer]

Yes i have to check those AT settings they should be off..

And how about configure settings?

Should they all be off like i had?

configure site:

- Configure Feature enables and Input selections: everything is disabled/off

- Temperature and pressure both is disabled/off

[Knight]

Sorry I simply do not know about other features. Everything disabled sounds right, but I would otherwise refer you to read the manual.

[zaumer]

Thank you very much for your time and help.

I´m going to test this again in this week and i report how it wen´t.

[JZH]

I'm still confused about which model bike this is! The first part of the VIN, which you quoted, is not relevant. The model year is the 10th digit: should be a W, X Y or 1 for a 5th gen VFR. It is also mentioned on the paint code sticker under the seat.

You may have seen my tale of PCV woe elsewhere on this forum. I have a Y2k (California) model with a PCV and Autotune, but I could not get it to work either with or without the Autotune. I also have a PCIII USB, which works great. I don't have time to muck with the bike, since I only see it for a few days each year, but now that I have acquired a 2001 model here in the UK, the next time I'm in CA I will be pulling the Dynojet stuff off the California bike and bringing it all here for testing. I would like to get to the bottom of the problem, but you may get there first! Good luck.

Ciao,

[Knight]

JZH I found your thread and it ended without an update. The last thing I saw was you were running a converted map. What happens if you put in a 6th generation stock PCV map and zero it out?

Barring other problems with these bikes, I am convinced the surging has to do with the O2 feedback loop. I could be wrong.

I looked this bike up and it has two different O2 sensors. Can you guys verify? Here are the parts listed:

36531-MBG-631

36532-MBG-D01

The 6th gen bike has two of the D01 parts instead.

Measure the resistance across each O2 sensor and comparing it to the resistance of the Dynojet O2 eliminators. If there is a big variance, whatever "big" means, then purchase the appropriate resistor and jump the connector per the instructions in the thread above.

Check the factory service manual. Is there advice for testing the O2 sensors? If yes, the test may give you the appropriate spec.

Of particular concern is the 631 sensor which differs from the 6th gen. Unless the parts fiche is incorrect or it is the same sensor with a different bolt on it or such. You tell us.

Another possibility is maybe the bike connects the sensors to each other in series or something like that. Maybe there is an additional jump that must be completed so the bike thinks that the sensors are not disabled. Does the wiring diagram give any indication?

JZH I see there was some question over the tapping of the speedometer and coolant sensors. Was that resolved or otherwise disabled?

[Mohawk]

As far as the O2 sensors go, any resistor across the heating circuit of any one of the O2 sensor feed connectors will stop the Fi light, but the unit will register an Fi fault, that NO O2 sensor switching available, that can only be seen in the diagnostics. It's just a voltage monitor in the ECU is NO 12v flow, then Fi light comes on to indicate a failed O2 sensor.

Regarding the coversion of the WAX unit to Cable choke, does anyone have a write up on that ? I may be interested as my WAX unit turns off to early :(

[Knight]

As far as the O2 sensors go, any resistor across the heating circuit of any one of the O2 sensor feed connectors will stop the Fi light, but the unit will register an Fi fault, that NO O2 sensor switching available, that can only be seen in the diagnostics. It's just a voltage monitor in the ECU is NO 12v flow, then Fi light comes on to indicate a failed O2 sensor.

Regarding the coversion of the WAX unit to Cable choke, does anyone have a write up on that ? I may be interested as my WAX unit turns off to early :(

Is it clean? Check this out:

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/59508-how-the-fast-idle-wax-unit-works/page-2

No details, but this post suggests to buy the parts including the left handlebar switches plus the lever, and it all bolts on:

http://vfrworld.com/forums/showthread.php/48729-Fast-idle-wax-unit-question?p=482950&viewfull=1#post482950

[JZH]

JZH I found your thread and it ended without an update. The last thing I saw was you were running a converted map. What happens if you put in a 6th generation stock PCV map and zero it out?

JZH I see there was some question over the tapping of the speedometer and coolant sensors. Was that resolved or otherwise disabled?

I have done nothing since, hence the un-updated thread. I have a note here telling me that the next thing I should try is a zero map, but I just don't have the time to play with the bike when I'm in California. But pulling the PCV and associated gubbins (I could even pull the PGM-FI unit?) and bringing them here to test on my '01 is probably my best way of moving forward with this--on my own, that is. I'm happy for you guys to solve it for me!

As for the sensors, I have found clear pics of both sensors on eBay and the sensors themselves appear to be the same unit (Mfr. pn. "9J28"). However, the cables on the two Honda parts are different--the connectors are obviously different, as they are different colours. That could very well be the only difference between the two sensors. (The European (and Canadian) 6th gens do not use MBG sensors at all--they use two different MCW sensors, again one with a black connector and one with a white connector, so I think you must have mis-read something!)

From what I can see from the US-spec 5th (2000-01) and 6th gen (2002-05) wiring diagrams, the two O2 sensors are wired similarly, i.e., all are 4-wire units sharing some connections and not sharing the others.

Ciao,

[Knight]

I got those part numbers from hondapartshouse.com. Here, they clearly indicate different parts. That could be wrong:

http://www.hondapartshouse.com/oemparts/a/hon/506c2b41f870023420a31002/muffler-2

Your comparison of the 5th and 6th gen wiring is a good check.

[Mohawk]

Yeah its clean, problem is it heats up & shuts off before the bike is at a sustainable temperature, around 50c to 65c it still wants choke, once above that its fine, but wax unit shuts off at around 50c which means it will stall if I don't keep the rev up on overrun !

I'll look at my spare TB & see what's doable.

[Knight]

What is your peak ambient temperature when it stalls? Extremely cold?

I warm mine up manually until it reads on the gauge, about 100°F (38°C). That coincides with the manual that says to use the fast idle for 30 seconds. In cold weather it may take 45-60 seconds. But that is it for the fast idle use. Now I do not know what temperature it is there, but the temperature sensor and ECU work to remain rich below something like 150°F (65°C). The wax idle unit, like my lever, is like a throttle. It should not be required to keep the bike running. Something is wrong, particularly if you are riding and let off the throttle and it stalls.

[JZH]

I got those part numbers from hondapartshouse.com. Here, they clearly indicate different parts. That could be wrong:

http://www.hondapartshouse.com/oemparts/a/hon/506c2b41f870023420a31002/muffler-2

Your comparison of the 5th and 6th gen wiring is a good check.

No, I agree with that! What I don't agree with is that the 6th gen uses the same part number as one of the 5th gen part numbers (and uses the same part number for both sets of cylinders). Is appears to me that both of the 5th gen sensors are the same (apart from wiring), such that they could be interchanged if necessary, so I doubt this could have been a source of the problem. I'm running Dynojet O2 eliminators and a single wide-band sensor placed after the 2-1 join.

Ciao,

[Knight]

Wide band sensor? So you currently have Autotune or Wide Band 2 hooked up?

[Mohawk]

Its independant of the external temperature & relates purely to engine temperature. My bike is heavily modified, was fine before the mods.

It starts fine regardless of temperature, but if I leave it to idle up to temperature the bike runs great until the wax unit pulls the extra juice then it dies. Does the same when riding, if I forget the transition phase when wax unit stops before the engine reaches operating temperature. If I forget & let the revs drop back to normal idle, the engine will stop due to lack of rich fuel state. Wait a few minutes for temperature to exceed 65c & the issue goes away.

I was planning to add a flow restrictor to the wax heater circuit to slow its heating & make it stay on a bit longer, but will look at a manual choke options now to.

[Knight]

Boy all three here are confusing the heck out of me.

Modified: I did not realize this Mohawk. Custom = way out of my expertise. I was assuming a typical setup.

As for the two owners above who are having trouble with the PC, I was presuming that Autotune was disabled as I wrote in post 10. That is why I dug way in to the OEM sensors not being shutoff. The surging problem looks like a feedback problem and I did not know that you had the Dynojet sensor active. Everyone absolutely must disable AutoTune to isolate the problem. I think the easiest start is to import a PCIII map from a similar bike or open any PCV map and zero it out.