KanadianKen Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Installed the Galfer Stainless lines onto my 02' a couple nights ago with CornerCarver - and proceeded to use the methods posted here on VFRD for bleeding the lines, but can't seem to get the LInked brakes portion to firm up. Front brakes are spectacular - no issues to complain about there. Problem lies within the secondary front master cylinder that sends fluid to the proportion valve (Non ABS) and then on to the back caliper. (we think). Using a vacuum pump via air compressor, speed bleeders all around, and not sure what to try next. The rear pedal is soft on the first pump then firms up on the 2nd and better still on the 3rd. How do we get this system to firm up on the first pedal push? Anyone experience the same issue after installing completely dry lines all around? thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer ronimalvfr Posted April 30, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted April 30, 2015 Do it by hand once till you get good fluid out of the proportioning valve, then go back and do it with vacuum pump. I didn't have this problem when I installed my Galfers, but I did when I bled the entire system by hand once. No rear brake on first push but good on second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KanadianKen Posted April 30, 2015 Author Share Posted April 30, 2015 Do it by hand once till you get good fluid out of the proportioning valve, then go back and do it with vacuum pump. I didn't have this problem when I installed my Galfers, but I did when I bled the entire system by hand once. No rear brake on first push but good on second. Clear fluid is coming out of the proportion valve - AND the front secondary master. no bubbles. must have pushed a litre through those two valves last night. problem still there after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wera803 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Ken, did you pull the secondary front master cylinder off (the caliper) and tilt it as the book instructed? I re-read something this morning that reminded me the book said to do that. If air is trapped right there, you will have issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KanadianKen Posted April 30, 2015 Author Share Posted April 30, 2015 Ken, did you pull the secondary front master cylinder off (the caliper) and tilt it as the book instructed? I re-read something this morning that reminded me the book said to do that. If air is trapped right there, you will have issues. Not sure - I was holding the flashlight at that time.......... Ok - I keed....... YEs - I believe Carver did the 45 degree tilt angle deal on that. He's going to chime in shortly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer gig Posted April 30, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted April 30, 2015 http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/70842-bleedingfluid-replacement-on-linked-brakes-wabs-on-6th-generation-the-ultimate-guide/#entry830236 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KanadianKen Posted April 30, 2015 Author Share Posted April 30, 2015 http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/70842-bleedingfluid-replacement-on-linked-brakes-wabs-on-6th-generation-the-ultimate-guide/#entry830236 Saw that too - mines NON abs.... thanks though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer gig Posted April 30, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted April 30, 2015 mine is non abs also, and could not get firm rear brake untill i followed SMC bleed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer LangoPTC Posted April 30, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted April 30, 2015 This procedure worked for me... http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/67298-6th-gen-abs-brake-fluid-change-guide/#entry976651 http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/index.php?/forums/topic/67298-6th-gen-abs-brake-fluid-change-guide/ did not have to remove left front caliper...you should feel a strong push at the secondary master cylinder when performing Step 3c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KanadianKen Posted April 30, 2015 Author Share Posted April 30, 2015 Non abs is what I have. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer LangoPTC Posted April 30, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted April 30, 2015 Non abs is what I have. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Mine are non-ABS as well. Nothing different about the bleeding procedure between the two from what I could tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer gig Posted April 30, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted April 30, 2015 Non abs is what I have. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Mine are non-ABS as well. Nothing different about the bleeding procedure between the two from what I could tell. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KanadianKen Posted May 1, 2015 Author Share Posted May 1, 2015 Non abs is what I have. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Mine are non-ABS as well. Nothing different about the bleeding procedure between the two from what I could tell. +1 OK - thanks guys - I"ll give that a try this weekend. thanks for your input! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KanadianKen Posted May 1, 2015 Author Share Posted May 1, 2015 This procedure worked for me... http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/67298-6th-gen-abs-brake-fluid-change-guide/#entry976651 did not have to remove left front caliper...you should feel a strong push at the secondary master cylinder when performing Step 3c From the procedure laid out - here are a couple questions: "Servo Brake Line: Second Master Cylinder to Servo Proportional Control Valve NOTE: this bleeder (even if it's a Speed-Bleeder) must be shut off between the following steps; [3][a] manually depress Second Master Cylinder at Left Front Caliper [3] close bleeder [3][c] use Pedal to recharge Second Master Cylinder (SMC) [3][d] open bleeder and repeat [3][a]-[3][c]" WHICH bleeder is being referenced in the second line from above excerpt (that must be shut off between the following steps) ? I'm assuming its the bleeder on the front left caliper - but want to be sure. 3(b) - is this reference to the bleeder on the PCV ? 3(d) - is this reference to the bleeder on the PCV ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer LangoPTC Posted May 1, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted May 1, 2015 All bleeder references in step 3 (including 2nd line of excerpt) are referencing PCV bleeder on left hand side of bike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KanadianKen Posted May 1, 2015 Author Share Posted May 1, 2015 All bleeder references in step 3 (including 2nd line of excerpt) are referencing PCV bleeder on left hand side of bike. So what is the bleeder that is being closed in 3(B) and opened in 3(D) ? Sorry but there are two bleeders potentially at play - on the caliper and the PCV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veefer800Canuck Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Did you try pushing the left front caliper forward by hand to compress the secondary master cylinder while bleeding at the proportioning valve amidships? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KanadianKen Posted May 1, 2015 Author Share Posted May 1, 2015 Did you try pushing the left front caliper forward by hand to compress the secondary master cylinder while bleeding at the proportioning valve amidships? Yes. for about an hour.......... I'll be revisiting the bleeding tomorrow - maybe tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer LangoPTC Posted May 1, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted May 1, 2015 Servo Brake Line: Second Master Cylinder to Servo Proportional Control Valve NOTE: this bleeder (PCV bleeder) (even if it's a Speed-Bleeder) must be shut off between the following steps;[3][a] manually depress Second Master Cylinder at Left Front Caliper[3] close bleeder (PCV bleeder) [3][c] use Pedal to recharge Second Master Cylinder (SMC) [3][d] open bleeder (PCV Bleeder) and repeat [3][a]-[3][c]" Caliper bleeder is not in play on step 3 Make sure you are keeping the SMC compressed THRU Step 3c. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KanadianKen Posted May 1, 2015 Author Share Posted May 1, 2015 Servo Brake Line: Second Master Cylinder to Servo Proportional Control Valve NOTE: this bleeder (PCV bleeder) (even if it's a Speed-Bleeder) must be shut off between the following steps; [3][a] manually depress Second Master Cylinder at Left Front Caliper [3] close bleeder (PCV bleeder) [3][c] use Pedal to recharge Second Master Cylinder (SMC) [3][d] open bleeder (PCV Bleeder) and repeat [3][a]-[3][c]" Caliper bleeder is not in play on step 3 OK - thank you for the clarification! Much appreciated. I may be a dumbass with this but i don't mind asking for help. CHeers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer LangoPTC Posted May 1, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted May 1, 2015 Good luck Ken! Wish I lived down the street from you...well except for the winters... I added this to the above post and wanted to make sure you saw it...it's important. "Make sure you are keeping the SMC compressed THRU Step 3c." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KanadianKen Posted May 2, 2015 Author Share Posted May 2, 2015 Well I think I have rear brake on first pump! I used the Bartman procedure from a few posts above- and the problem seems to have been the rear caliper. Following the steps from the procedure had me bleeding at the rear caliper and both speed bleeders were worked. Bubbles flowed from both when the pump was attached. The proportion valve didn't bubble at all. I think Carver and I had that area perfect but we just didn't know it. I just put the fairings all back together and it's pitch black outside. Test ride in the morning. Fingers crossed that this thing is sorted !! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KanadianKen Posted May 2, 2015 Author Share Posted May 2, 2015 I have rear brake from the pedal - it's way better than it was but it isn't anywhere near as good as the front. The front is just amazing. I'll bleed them all again in a couple weeks when I change the rubber and see how many bubbles I can get out. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer gmtech94 Posted May 2, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted May 2, 2015 If you still need help I am just a short ride down the road ,have a shop and all . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer LangoPTC Posted May 2, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted May 2, 2015 You definitely need two people to perform Step 3 in Bartman's write-up (three would actually be better). I had the wife work the pedal and I had to be somewhat of a contortionist with my left hand keeping the SMC compressed (caliper still attached) and my right hand opening and closing the PCV bleeder. You need to perform step 3 until you can no longer keep the SMC compressed at Step 3c...If you are kind of still compressing the SMC after Step 3 you have to bleed it some more. You won't be able to keep the SMC compressed at Step 3c once the bike is bled properly. Also when opening the PCV bleeder valve you should be getting a good shot of brake fluid coming out...not just a little brake fluid. Was in same boat as you about a month ago...just installed new brake lines and installed speedbleeders. Wish I could explain it better but you'll understand what I am trying to relay once you've done it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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