erbilabuc Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 my 95 is turning 20 in a few months and the only issue she has every given me is a horrible hard start. I know it has to be the 20 year old gasket and seals. I would like to replace as many gaskets and seals as possible and also the floats. I looked on ebay but i saw prices from 20-350$. I just need advice on what "kit" gets me what I need. I will also be replacing the intake boots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer taglicious Posted September 23, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted September 23, 2014 leaking or? my '90 still has no leaks. I've never seen a vfr with a leak other than the reg/rect melt down :) horrible start could mean several things but seals? not likely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcrwt644 Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 my new 97 acquisition was giving me issues and I came to find out that the two non removable passages near the main/pilot jets were clogged. I was unable to get it clear with carb cleaner, so I used 'the works' toilet bowl cleaner and it opened up 2 of them (the 2 that were clogged) with little issue. Bike starts with no problem now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erbilabuc Posted September 23, 2014 Author Share Posted September 23, 2014 no i don't have any leaks just a horrible hard starting issue that i would like to get rid of. what is the works toilet bowl cleaner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer gll429 Posted September 24, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted September 24, 2014 your pilot jets are clogged . the carbs need cleaning.. as for the air passageways giving mcrwt644 problems. use a very thin stiff wire like on the K&L carb cleaner wire set. its NOT the same as a welding tip cleaner. there are 3 super fine wires in there.. if you want to take a shot yourself..i will start with i am a honda tech..and i have had lots of VFRs since my 16th bday.. :)step one..DOWNLOAD THE MANUALif you bike has been sitting with gas in the carbs..YOU'RE GOING SHOPPING NOW!!!30 bucks.. a one gallon can of GUNK CARB DIP.. this is NOT spray. gunk is the brand.DO NOT GET BERRYMAN DIP!!it SUCKS SUCKS SUCKS!!!!!!!!did i mention berryman brand sucks?? $4 a spray bottle of silicone lube.$4 a spray can of carb cleaner..if you have an air compressor.. that would be great.$15 get 2 cheap pry bars about footlong and a big rubber mallet.$1 each get several aluminium foil baking pans 1x1 or about that.$1 plastic pan the size of a kittylitter tray.$1 a small flat blade screw driver that will be used to get out the pilot jets.. which i can promise you are clogged up. the same size as the pocket drivers the snap-on guts give out. and you should already have a 6 , 7, 8,10 12, 13, 14, 17 18, 19 sockets.. you will only need the 7mm here.$7 a cheap impact driver.. the floatbowl screws may be 'screwed" if others screwed them up.$5 a hammer.first up.. you all ready have the tank off.. and the air box.. leave the 4 carbs connected!!there is no reason to separate them from the plenum .next.. unscrew the 2 screws holding the throttle cable clamp in place to the carb... and you remove the cable in 30 seconds.since you have the airbox off.. you can how the choke cable come off.. use your finger to slide the choke.. and pull the slack cable out .and remove if from the carb.loosen the front top clamps on the intake boots..and REMOVE the rear 2place the 2 pry bars under the rear carbs. right where they meet the rear head.. and gently pry them up both at the same time. bet they pop up in 5 seconds. if they dont.. make sure you loosened the clamps.. now that the back 2 are out the front 2 pop up with a gentle push with the pry bars under the front.. very easy..now that the carbs are out..remove the float bowls. and the jets..PAY ATTENTION TO THE JETS!>> make sure the front 2 match ditto for the rear 2.. its possible all 4 are the same . but its just as likely they will be different.remove the carb tops and the springs and slides..place the cabs in the foil bottom side down. and shape the foil to get a good fit.. place in another foil pan.. just incase the 1st will leak.. and repeat..you will now place this in the kitty litter plastic tray.pour the gunk carb dip into the foil and let the carbs soak.. drop your jets in there too.. and in a few hours go check them.. if the brass looks like new..and you can SEE through all of the jet holes. you're ready to rinse it all off.you MUST rinse it with water until the run off stops turning white.!!!!let dry.. or blow it off.blow out all the holes in the carb with air compressor.. or carb spray.reinstall the jets and floats and float bowls, ditto for the slides and tops.lube all pivots with silicone spray..lube all choke slides ect etc..lube the intake boots..install the front 2 carbs FIRST! they will pop right in. next..lower the rear 2 and then place the pry bar tips just inside the lip.. press down on the carbs.. the prybars will act like a shoe horn and presto! your in! ! if not..you may need the rubber mallet to drive the carbs down. install the top clamps and all the other stuff.honestly.. i can never understand why people complain about installing and removing the carbs. my 1st try took 5 min off and 5 min on. that was 25 years ago.. my god i am getting old! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottay951 Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 DO NOT GET BERRYMAN DIP!! it SUCKS SUCKS SUCKS!!!!!!!! I think he's trying to tell us something...but I'm not sure exactly what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erbilabuc Posted September 24, 2014 Author Share Posted September 24, 2014 your pilot jets are clogged . the carbs need cleaning.. as for the air passageways giving mcrwt644 problems. use a very thin stiff wire like on the K&L carb cleaner wire set. its NOT the same as a welding tip cleaner. there are 3 super fine wires in there.. if you want to take a shot yourself.. i will start with i am a honda tech..and i have had lots of VFRs since my 16th bday.. :) step one..DOWNLOAD THE MANUAL if you bike has been sitting with gas in the carbs.. YOU'RE GOING SHOPPING NOW!!! 30 bucks.. a one gallon can of GUNK CARB DIP.. this is NOT spray. gunk is the brand. DO NOT GET BERRYMAN DIP!! it SUCKS SUCKS SUCKS!!!!!!!! did i mention berryman brand sucks?? $4 a spray bottle of silicone lube. $4 a spray can of carb cleaner.. if you have an air compressor.. that would be great. $15 get 2 cheap pry bars about footlong and a big rubber mallet. $1 each get several aluminium foil baking pans 1x1 or about that. $1 plastic pan the size of a kittylitter tray. $1 a small flat blade screw driver that will be used to get out the pilot jets.. which i can promise you are clogged up. the same size as the pocket drivers the snap-on guts give out. and you should already have a 6 , 7, 8,10 12, 13, 14, 17 18, 19 sockets.. you will only need the 7mm here. $7 a cheap impact driver.. the floatbowl screws may be 'screwed" if others screwed them up. $5 a hammer. first up.. you all ready have the tank off.. and the air box.. leave the 4 carbs connected!!there is no reason to separate them from the plenum . next.. unscrew the 2 screws holding the throttle cable clamp in place to the carb... and you remove the cable in 30 seconds. since you have the airbox off.. you can how the choke cable come off.. use your finger to slide the choke.. and pull the slack cable out .and remove if from the carb. loosen the front top clamps on the intake boots.. and REMOVE the rear 2 place the 2 pry bars under the rear carbs. right where they meet the rear head.. and gently pry them up both at the same time. bet they pop up in 5 seconds. if they dont.. make sure you loosened the clamps.. now that the back 2 are out the front 2 pop up with a gentle push with the pry bars under the front.. very easy.. now that the carbs are out.. remove the float bowls. and the jets.. PAY ATTENTION TO THE JETS!>> make sure the front 2 match ditto for the rear 2.. its possible all 4 are the same . but its just as likely they will be different. remove the carb tops and the springs and slides.. place the cabs in the foil bottom side down. and shape the foil to get a good fit.. place in another foil pan.. just incase the 1st will leak.. and repeat.. you will now place this in the kitty litter plastic tray. pour the gunk carb dip into the foil and let the carbs soak.. drop your jets in there too.. and in a few hours go check them.. if the brass looks like new..and you can SEE through all of the jet holes. you're ready to rinse it all off. you MUST rinse it with water until the run off stops turning white.!!!! let dry.. or blow it off. blow out all the holes in the carb with air compressor.. or carb spray. reinstall the jets and floats and float bowls, ditto for the slides and tops. lube all pivots with silicone spray..lube all choke slides ect etc.. lube the intake boots.. install the front 2 carbs FIRST! they will pop right in. next.. lower the rear 2 and then place the pry bar tips just inside the lip.. press down on the carbs.. the prybars will act like a shoe horn and presto! your in! ! if not..you may need the rubber mallet to drive the carbs down. install the top clamps and all the other stuff. honestly.. i can never understand why people complain about installing and removing the carbs. my 1st try took 5 min off and 5 min on. that was 25 years ago.. my god i am getting old! thanks but now that I remember earlier this year when I returned from deployment on startup my carbs where leaking from somewhere. Im sure my floats where stuck as a tap with a screw driver got it to stop. Should I replace them also or are they just dirty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer gll429 Posted September 24, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted September 24, 2014 mostly just stuck.. i have only seen a BAD float once in 20 years of working on bikes. and it wasn't a honda.. do look at the tip of the float needle they have rubberized tips that may dry out and crumble if sitting too long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted September 24, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted September 24, 2014 What is "horrible hard starting issue"? I learned pretty quickly with my -bought when new- 97, that you must touch the right buttons to fire her up (sounds familiar eh? ). Choke all the way open push starter button once, let go push again and hey presto! idle will run up quickly, so push half way down. after 10 seconds push choke all the way in YMMV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erbilabuc Posted September 24, 2014 Author Share Posted September 24, 2014 What is "horrible hard starting issue"? I learned pretty quickly with my -bought when new- 97, that you must touch the right buttons to fire her up (sounds familiar eh? ). Choke all the way open push starter button once, let go push again and hey presto! idle will run up quickly, so push half way down. after 10 seconds push choke all the way in YMMV full choke and hit start button about 10 seconds, repeat about 4 times and she will start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer gll429 Posted September 24, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted September 24, 2014 yep.. your pilot jets are clogged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erbilabuc Posted September 25, 2014 Author Share Posted September 25, 2014 yep.. your pilot jets are clogged. can i access them by taking just the air filter housing off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squidzilla Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 I would try some STP multipurpose motor treatment. My gen 4 would not start without the choke on and would not idle without the choke on. Although after running some generic carb cleaner I got it to the point where if I got the bike hot, I could give it some throttle and it would not die on me. I bought that STP stuff last week since it also doubles as a fuel stabilizer and I only expected marginal gains with the idle issue. Well, after a 100 mile ride it is all fixed. Idles just fine. I still need to use the choke to start it but once it is kind of warm it will now idle on its own. There are several people on this forum that will say cleaners do not fix issues like this or that you have to take apart the carbs, but my experience has proven otherwise. My gas mileage even jumped to almost 50mpg. I was getting 38 tops before I used this stuff to clean out the carbs/jets. Just dump it in your tank and go for a ride. http://www.stp.com/products/multipurpose-additives/multipurpose-motor-treatment/ You might have to run it through a few tanks. It fixed mine after using 2.5 gallons of fuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer gll429 Posted September 25, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted September 25, 2014 you can try the above method of spending $$ on gas additives.. and have a hard time starting your bike, until they do their job.. and it may or may not work..depending on how dirty they are.. or you do as i said.. and DOWNLOAD THE MANUAL 1ST.. and clean the pilot jets. NO you cant get to them from the top. .. at a bare minimum of cleaning just the pilot jets and blowing out the other passage ways, require the carbs to come off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squidzilla Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 Its a 7.00 cost for the bottle. Mine was pretty bad which is why I picked it up for 1400.00. And it worked. To each his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer taglicious Posted September 28, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted September 28, 2014 Did you check/replace your plugs by any chance? I must have been tired when I posted earlier, but thats the 1st place I would start. Run cr8 or cr9 ngk. 9 for racing around, 8 for distance without mobbing around or racing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slovcan Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 OK, I don't believe in carb cleaner fixing what should be done properly, BUT on the advice of my local Honda shop tech I put some Gunk brand stuff in my Trophy. I had let it sit too long with untreated gas and it got a pretty big stumble off idle. It did clear it up about 95%. Still no substitute for a proper cleaning though. Below is a link to an outside forum. I suspect it is not good protocol to link outside, but it is all about Honda V4's. Billy C. is a carb guru who is dedicated to help us V4 Honda guys. He doesn't do any other carbs. He also sells different levels of rebuild kits with detailed instructions. No better guy for this and his prices are designed for us poor folk. He also sells his services/kits on eBay if the link doesn't work without membership. I can put you in communication with him if need be. Cheers, Glenn http://v4hondabbs.com/index.php?board=92.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer gll429 Posted September 29, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted September 29, 2014 OK, I don't believe in carb cleaner fixing what should be done properly, BUT on the advice of my local Honda shop tech I put some Gunk brand stuff in my Trophy. I had let it sit too long with untreated gas and it got a pretty big stumble off idle. It did clear it up about 95%. Still no substitute for a proper cleaning though. Below is a link to an outside forum. I suspect it is not good protocol to link outside, but it is all about Honda V4's. Billy C. is a carb guru who is dedicated to help us V4 Honda guys. He doesn't do any other carbs. He also sells different levels of rebuild kits with detailed instructions. No better guy for this and his prices are designed for us poor folk. He also sells his services/kits on eBay if the link doesn't work without membership. I can put you in communication with him if need be. Cheers, Glenn http://v4hondabbs.com/index.php?board=92.0 glen.. he needs his pilots cleaned not a rebuilt kit filled with stuff he doesn't need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slovcan Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 OK, I don't believe in carb cleaner fixing what should be done properly, BUT on the advice of my local Honda shop tech I put some Gunk brand stuff in my Trophy. I had let it sit too long with untreated gas and it got a pretty big stumble off idle. It did clear it up about 95%. Still no substitute for a proper cleaning though. Below is a link to an outside forum. I suspect it is not good protocol to link outside, but it is all about Honda V4's. Billy C. is a carb guru who is dedicated to help us V4 Honda guys. He doesn't do any other carbs. He also sells different levels of rebuild kits with detailed instructions. No better guy for this and his prices are designed for us poor folk. He also sells his services/kits on eBay if the link doesn't work without membership. I can put you in communication with him if need be. Cheers, Glenn http://v4hondabbs.com/index.php?board=92.0 glen.. he needs his pilots cleaned not a rebuilt kit filled with stuff he doesn't need. Yes, I know that. Maybe I was thinking faster than I could type. Then I digressed. My Trophy's issue was the pilots, hence my mention of the Gunk carb cleaner - although I do recommend proper cleaning. Still, it worked for me (only 95%, IMO) and may be worth a try. My info about Billy and the specialized service he gives us Honda V4 owners (and only us) was meant to be viewed by the "masses" in case somebody else among us might want to check out his parts and services. Cheers, Glenn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcrwt644 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 I have the K n L tool and couldn't get the smallest wire in there. A few drops of 'the works' and it opened both of them right up. No more issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erbilabuc Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 well i lowered the idle to 1000rpms which i had no idea its what it was supposed to be at and it helped a lot. I just did it 2 days ago and so far it starts right up but won't hold idle unless it has a little bit of throttle but it beats the 2-3 minutes of on and off cranking and playing with choke before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer taglicious Posted October 22, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted October 22, 2014 Eric. I ran into this/these symptoms in the last couple of days. After checking everything fuel related, i came to the conclusion that it was indeed electrical. If you have the shop manual, check out the troubleshooting section in 16-3 through 16-4... ignition system. I am lucky enough to have a multitude of spares here and threw a new, albeit used, pulse generator in... BAM no more hard start... easy idle, choke works the way she should. Check it out... post your findings...good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erbilabuc Posted March 4, 2015 Author Share Posted March 4, 2015 well almost a year after and a 5,000 mile move from Hawaii to North Carolina I have had enough. Bike wouldn't even start once I got to NC so tore into it. Used Zep purple cleaner once we ran a visual test on what it would do to the jets and it worked great. 3 of 4 pilot jets where clogged. 2 of 4 mains where clogged. Thanks for everyones response. It took me 90 minutes from beginning to end. dirty dirty engine Zep treated while the jets soak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer taglicious Posted March 4, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted March 4, 2015 Nice job eric! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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