Experiences of a PCV with Autotune on a 2004 VFR800

[Guest GPM]

Some of you have mentioned talking with a tech at PC. How did that go? I've got to look at my connections AGAIN, as I enabled map by gear and I got nothing in the trims. When I tried to manually calibrate, it wasn't sensing me being in gear, so I'll be redoing that connection.

After that, I guess I'm going to have to talk to someone, since I still get no afr/temp anything but rpm on my gauge panel.

Sorry Popsrcr, I forgot to reply to you...

Try going for a nice ride, so 30-60 mins, return home, leave the bike running, put it in neutral, lift onto the centre stand, plug in the PCV to your laptop, pop the bike into gear, drag a little rear brake and slowly increase the trottle - see if you start getting any readings then (speed and gear is what you are after, AFR shouldn't be affected by these things, why it wont display is a mystery).

If still nothing it's time to contact Dynojet - and your PCV or Autotune may be faulty

[Popsrcr]

Some of you have mentioned talking with a tech at PC. How did that go? I've got to look at my connections AGAIN, as I enabled map by gear and I got nothing in the trims. When I tried to manually calibrate, it wasn't sensing me being in gear, so I'll be redoing that connection.

After that, I guess I'm going to have to talk to someone, since I still get no afr/temp anything but rpm on my gauge panel.

Sorry Popsrcr, I forgot to reply to you...

Try going for a nice ride, so 30-60 mins, return home, leave the bike running, put it in neutral, lift onto the centre stand, plug in the PCV to your laptop, pop the bike into gear, drag a little rear brake and slowly increase the trottle - see if you start getting any readings then (speed and gear is what you are after, AFR shouldn't be affected by these things, why it wont display is a mystery).

If still nothing it's time to contact Dynojet - and your PCV or Autotune may be faulty

Thanks for all the replys. When I connected the other day, it was after a long ride. I have to assume my tap is no good for the gear sensor....OR, I still have a botched firmware upgrade (odd since it shows the new version.)

Maybe I'll try reloading the software on my netbook, and then try flashing the PC again. Can't hurt.

[coderighter]

If you have to take 20% of fuel out of a mixture to get to 13.7, then that means the starting mixture was 11.3? That don't sound right.

It could be because I'm running 98 RON octane. It's what you would call 95 I believe, and at least here in Australia it is a denser fuel which results in a richer mixture per injector pulse/charge.

Putting in the 98 was probably a dumb idea for the stock target AFRs. Only time and experience will confirm that though.

I was thinking about your issue you got going on but first I think we need to talk about the octane rating of gas.

A higher octane rated gas (OK, petrol), in no way contains more energy. Really, it could be said that it contains less energy. The octane rating is a measure of the resistance of petrol to autoignition in an internal combustion engines. It's a measure of the fuel's tendency to burn in a controlled manner, rather than exploding in an uncontrolled manner. Where octane is raised by blending in ethanol, energy content per volume is reduced.

This uncontrolled ignition is caused by heat, heat from cylinder temp and heat from the act of compressing the mixture. Compression is static and not controllable. However, there are ways to control cylinder temp. Mainly, engine timing and mixture (leaner is hotter), can be controlled to manage cylinder temp. We hear this uncontrolled ignition as a knocking sound. This sound is cause by the mixture igniting while the piston is to low in the cylinder, trying to push it in the wrong direction.

In a car, the engine management system includes a knock sensor. When the sensor 'hears' knock, the computer adjusts timing, and mixture to prevent knock. In theory, the leaner the mixture and the more spark advance, the more power and economy. So using this theory, the higher the octane rating, the more resistance to knock and the less fuel and the more timing advance can be used. Because the AFR has to be controlled for other reasons also, it mostly timing that is adjusted. The computer runs the timing up to the knock, quickly backs off a hair then creeps back up until knock is heard then quickly backs off again. It does this over and over, really fast, to maintain max performance for the fuel that being used. Oddly enough, alot of the time the improvement in economy, doesn't always make up of the extra price of the premium fuel. Most the time when it says "premium recommended", it's for the manufactures benefit. Any improvement, no matter now small, helps them meet their EPA goals. Yes, the premeim will gain you a little, tiny, amount of power but whats your needs? Track car, by all means get the premium. My wife's "premium recommend" BMW, never sees it. I've tested on road trips, premium increases the MPG less than .5 MPG. At 30 MPG (highway) that's an improvement of 1.6%. Currently, in my part of the world, regular is about $2.90 and premium is $3.10 which makes it about 7% price difference. Now cars are different, so your results may vary. Also, some are "premuim required", so beware.

Before i get off my soapbox, EPA MPG ratings are the same reason for the flood of cars recommending 0w-20 oil. Anything to up that MPG number, even a hair. I, for one, will never put 0W anything in a internal combustion engine!

Sorry, back to the VFR and octane. Motorcycles don't have knock sensors. They can't adapt to a fuel with a increased octane rating. Anything over the octane rating required by mother Honda (86, for 6th gen VFR) buys you nothing and depending on now the rating is raised, it may actually hurt you.

Motorcycles, in general, are not know for their hot ignition systems. This is mainly do to trying to keep the bikes weight to a minimum. Your bike is older and has more KM's than most so I'm guessing the spark hasn't gotten any brighter over time. Is it possible that your running such a high octane rating that your ignition system is not hot enough for complete combustion causing the autotune to think the bike is running richer than it really is ?

[kaldek]

A higher octane rated gas (OK, petrol), in no way contains more energy.

True - but the fuel I'm talking about - irrespective of its octane rating - is denser. Here's an interesting document from Shell themselves that proves it: Shell Optimax and motorcyles

Is it possible that your running such a high octane rating that your ignition system is hot enough for complete combustion causing the autotune to think the bike is running richer than it really is ?

That's also a possibility. Time to run this tank dry and go back to regular 91 RON (87 octane).

For a bit of a laugh, I fitted a switch to enable/disable Autotune this afternoon. I'll test it out tomorrow - should be a hoot.

[coderighter]

A higher octane rated gas (OK, petrol), in no way contains more energy.

True - but the fuel I'm talking about - irrespective of its octane rating - is denser. Here's an interesting document from Shell themselves that proves it: Shell Optimax and motorcyles

Is it possible that your running such a high octane rating that your ignition system is hot enough for complete combustion causing the autotune to think the bike is running richer than it really is ?

That's also a possibility. Time to run this tank dry and go back to regular 91 RON (87 octane).

For a bit of a laugh, I fitted a switch to enable/disable Autotune this afternoon. I'll test it out tomorrow - should be a hoot.

Even if it is denser, whatever is added to increase the octane rating displaces some hydrocarbons by volume. If there was a way to adjust timing (read 'advance'), you could tune for the fuel. That Shell link seemed more like a sales flyer than a fact document backed with any kind of testing results.

Please let us know what happens with the 87 octane.

[Guest GPM]

That's also a possibility. Time to run this tank dry and go back to regular 91 RON (87 octane).

Most petrol stations seem to want to pass off 91RON with 10% ethanol poison - seeing as ethanol is often used to raise octane ratings (as well as its other features) you can imagine the 'quality' of that fuel before 10% ethanol was added to get it to pass muster as 91RON.

If you have trouble finding real 91RON fuel try a Caltex/Woolworths, most of their stations seem to stock it. I find myself switching between 91 and 95RON unleaded depending on what the station has on offer.

Another thing to try, disable the autotune but continue to use the trimed based map - I have noticed that when I am running along before the autotune enables (I have mine set to 80 degrees now, in light of Coderighter's posts on the impact of temp on Honda's ECU) the bike runs just amazingly, after the autotune kicks in I can feel it adjusting when I am commuting. I am now almost certain this is due to large number of speed/RPM/throttle adjustments I have to go through in heavy traffic to/from work, resulting in the decel issue (and a nice smooth map being turned into a chaotic jumble). Compared highway or twisty riding, where throttle is either constantly steady or going up/down in smooth, broad movements commuting with the autotune just doesn't feel as good. Not dangerous or horrible, just not as enjoyable. Hopefully I'll have this issue resolved soon - Coderighter has set me up with what I need to get a vacuum switch going (much kudos to you Coderighter!). Once I get the parts I'll hook it up (and produce a nice install guide). Hopefully it'll even out the commute!

And while I am on issues - another I have noticed a few times (and a solution too!). Occaisionally, after going for a bit of a ride and stopping the bike (say for a petrol or food stop), I would hop back on and suddenly the bike would run like crap. I could feel the autotune mucking things up (and it was not enjoyable at all - I would even go dangerous!). This problem would eventually right itself, but it would take a few minutes.

I noticed this problem only seemed to happen when I took off again with the bike still hot from the previous ride. I figured out that the problem was that the engine temp was still high (deep in the bowels anyway), but the headers, and O2 sensor, had cooled significantly - end result, the PCV would see a good engine temp, and enable the autotune, but the O2 sensor itself wasn't at operating temp and so it was producing very bad readings, resulting in terrible running.

Solution was simple, I set the PCV to wait 60 seconds AND have an engine temp of over 80 degrees Celsius before enabling the autotune - problem has gone.

Extrapolating this, if your bike is running like absolute crap with autotune, check to make sure that the O2 sensor is operating correctly. Could be it isn't up to operating temperature, could be it is just putting out bad readings.

[coderighter]

That's also a possibility. Time to run this tank dry and go back to regular 91 RON (87 octane).

Most petrol stations seem to want to pass off 91RON with 10% ethanol poison - seeing as ethanol is often used to raise octane ratings (as well as its other features) you can imagine the 'quality' of that fuel before 10% ethanol was added to get it to pass muster as 91RON.

If you have trouble finding real 91RON fuel try a Caltex/Woolworths, most of their stations seem to stock it. I find myself switching between 91 and 95RON unleaded depending on what the station has on offer.

Another thing to try, disable the autotune but continue to use the trimed based map - I have noticed that when I am running along before the autotune enables (I have mine set to 80 degrees now, in light of Coderighter's posts on the impact of temp on Honda's ECU) the bike runs just amazingly, after the autotune kicks in I can feel it adjusting when I am commuting. I am now almost certain this is due to large number of speed/RPM/throttle adjustments I have to go through in heavy traffic to/from work, resulting in the decel issue (and a nice smooth map being turned into a chaotic jumble). Compared highway or twisty riding, where throttle is either constantly steady or going up/down in smooth, broad movements commuting with the autotune just doesn't feel as good. Not dangerous or horrible, just not as enjoyable. Hopefully I'll have this issue resolved soon - Coderighter has set me up with what I need to get a vacuum switch going (much kudos to you Coderighter!). Once I get the parts I'll hook it up (and produce a nice install guide). Hopefully it'll even out the commute!

And while I am on issues - another I have noticed a few times (and a solution too!). Occaisionally, after going for a bit of a ride and stopping the bike (say for a petrol or food stop), I would hop back on and suddenly the bike would run like crap. I could feel the autotune mucking things up (and it was not enjoyable at all - I would even go dangerous!). This problem would eventually right itself, but it would take a few minutes.

I noticed this problem only seemed to happen when I took off again with the bike still hot from the previous ride. I figured out that the problem was that the engine temp was still high (deep in the bowels anyway), but the headers, and O2 sensor, had cooled significantly - end result, the PCV would see a good engine temp, and enable the autotune, but the O2 sensor itself wasn't at operating temp and so it was producing very bad readings, resulting in terrible running.

Solution was simple, I set the PCV to wait 60 seconds AND have an engine temp of over 80 degrees Celsius before enabling the autotune - problem has gone.

Extrapolating this, if your bike is running like absolute crap with autotune, check to make sure that the O2 sensor is operating correctly. Could be it isn't up to operating temperature, could be it is just putting out bad readings.

I've got my wait time set for 120 secs. This helps insure that I don't 'pollute' any cells. I'm really trying hard to only be 'tuning' when the bike is running as normal as possible. Right now I'm working on a project with Tightwad and as soon is as I get that done, my next job is to find a way to turn off the Autotune at 200 degrees and above. I'm told the EMU really starts to richen it up at higher temps to help bring the temp down. First, I don't want the PCV to work against that, and second, I don't want to pollute cells.

[Guest GPM]

I've got my wait time set for 120 secs. This helps insure that I don't 'pollute' any cells. I'm really trying hard to only be 'tuning' when the bike is running as normal as possible. Right now I'm working on a project with Tightwad and as soon is as I get that done, my next job is to find a way to turn off the Autotune at 200 degrees and above. I'm told the EMU really starts to richen it up at higher temps to help bring the temp down. First, I don't want the PCV to work against that, and second, I don't want to pollute cells.

Hmmm, 200 is 93 degrees celsius, which on a normal day would be within my normal operating temps (the bike tends to sit somewhere between 90 and 100 degrees, with it going up to 105 when sitting still for a few minutes).

My thoughts on the solution would be to fool the ECU into thinking it was always a particular temp, that way the ECUs adjustments for temp are constant. If my autotune is succesfully countering the ECUs adjustments (ie. bringing the mixture back to what it wants, thus negating the cooling effect) then feeding a constant temp isn't likely to do any harm - my bike isn't running any hotter now then it was, and I was running the autotune through the later part of our summer. Maybe I should set my enable point to 85 or even 90 degrees....

It would be interesting to know just how much Honda tries to richen things up. I guess the message here though is autotune users should set a high enable temp, something a little below what would be lowest temp you would expect on proper usage. To low and the autotune will end up, as you say, polluting cells, and if you accept trims from a short (cool) ride, your autotune and ECU will end up locked in battle next time around.

[coderighter]

I've got my wait time set for 120 secs. This helps insure that I don't 'pollute' any cells. I'm really trying hard to only be 'tuning' when the bike is running as normal as possible. Right now I'm working on a project with Tightwad and as soon is as I get that done, my next job is to find a way to turn off the Autotune at 200 degrees and above. I'm told the EMU really starts to richen it up at higher temps to help bring the temp down. First, I don't want the PCV to work against that, and second, I don't want to pollute cells.

Hmmm, 200 is 93 degrees celsius, which on a normal day would be within my normal operating temps (the bike tends to sit somewhere between 90 and 100 degrees, with it going up to 105 when sitting still for a few minutes).

My thoughts on the solution would be to fool the ECU into thinking it was always a particular temp, that way the ECUs adjustments for temp are constant. If my autotune is succesfully countering the ECUs adjustments (ie. bringing the mixture back to what it wants, thus negating the cooling effect) then feeding a constant temp isn't likely to do any harm - my bike isn't running any hotter now then it was, and I was running the autotune through the later part of our summer. Maybe I should set my enable point to 85 or even 90 degrees....

It would be interesting to know just how much Honda tries to richen things up. I guess the message here though is autotune users should set a high enable temp, something a little below what would be lowest temp you would expect on proper usage. To low and the autotune will end up, as you say, polluting cells, and if you accept trims from a short (cool) ride, your autotune and ECU will end up locked in battle next time around.

Ya, mine just doesn't run that hot. As long as I am moving, I am under 200. A 205 switch might be a better choice.

[sa1713]

To address the heat issue, why not just add some fuel when the engine temps hit a certain mark? That option is available to us no?

[coderighter]

To address the heat issue, why not just add some fuel when the engine temps hit a certain mark? That option is available to us no?

The last I was told, setting a percent temp increase, doesn't turn off the autotune. If you wanted a 5% increase and your upper limit was set at 10%, you would need to set the increase on temp to 15% to override the autotune. Of course, that would pollute any cells you passed by during that time. I should check, maybe they fixed that in the latest firmware.

[Popsrcr]

Gents - I decided to download everything and start from scratch. Reloaded the software, etc. I just flashed the PCV and......IT WORKED! I get AFR, Temp, EVERYTHING!! Woo hoo! I guess my connections were ok after all.

So, I dont know that I'll have much time to play,given the holiday and family, but I'm on my way!! Thanks for getting me to recheck recheck and recheck!

[Guest GPM]

Gents - I decided to download everything and start from scratch. Reloaded the software, etc. I just flashed the PCV and......IT WORKED! I get AFR, Temp, EVERYTHING!! Woo hoo! I guess my connections were ok after all.

So, I dont know that I'll have much time to play,given the holiday and family, but I'm on my way!! Thanks for getting me to recheck recheck and recheck!

Excellent! :rolleyes:

I guess that means that if something isn't working right, try reflashing the device and see how that goes. Much quicker then having to send it back to Dynojet for them to do it

[Popsrcr]

Gents - I decided to download everything and start from scratch. Reloaded the software, etc. I just flashed the PCV and......IT WORKED! I get AFR, Temp, EVERYTHING!! Woo hoo! I guess my connections were ok after all.

So, I dont know that I'll have much time to play,given the holiday and family, but I'm on my way!! Thanks for getting me to recheck recheck and recheck!

Excellent! :rolleyes:

I guess that means that if something isn't working right, try reflashing the device and see how that goes. Much quicker then having to send it back to Dynojet for them to do it

That was easily the 4th time I had flashed it. Every other time it didn't seem to complete right, but would add in a recovery step and it *looked* correct. This time it went through start to finish no issues. Whew.

[kaldek]

That was easily the 4th time I had flashed it. Every other time it didn't seem to complete right, but would add in a recovery step and it *looked* correct. This time it went through start to finish no issues. Whew.

Yeah looks like the firmware update process is a little dodgy still. I guess the PCV is still only about a year old and Dynojet haven't got their code running clean enough yet. Which isn't really acceptable, but it is what it is.

[TX_CLG]

That was easily the 4th time I had flashed it. Every other time it didn't seem to complete right, but would add in a recovery step and it *looked* correct. This time it went through start to finish no issues. Whew.

Yeah looks like the firmware update process is a little dodgy still. I guess the PCV is still only about a year old and Dynojet haven't got their code running clean enough yet. Which isn't really acceptable, but it is what it is.

I had to flash mine three times. It would be nice if the firmware loader popped a message that said sucess / failure or even what the current revision is of the PCV.

[kaldek]

Please let us know what happens with the 87 octane.

OK so I've been riding the bike with 87 octane, with a switch for Autotune installed. It was leaning the mixture out, but I'll be buggered if I could tell the difference between the system with the switch on or off. There are negative values in the cells as expected, and I tested it a number of times and sure enough the switch works (by running on the centrestand and looking at the "fuel" values changing or not depending on if the switch was on or not). It was still getting progressively worse/crap around small throttle openings on a zero map, Autotune or not.

Today I rode to work with the PCV disconnected. It was much better, and I found it to be a pleasure to ride.

I just think there is no such thing as a true zero map. My assumption of *why* this is the case, is the fact that the Powercommander is a two-dimensional overlay on an internal ECU's three-dimensional map. Even with zero in every cell, the lower resolution of the power commander must be causing it to behave in an unforeseen way. Powercommander don't even offer zero maps anymore, and maybe there could be good reasons for this?

I am in a unique situation, in that my bike now runs richer than most and there probably isn't a map out there for me that will work. I need to piss off now and not come back to this thread until I have my headers fitted and a custom tune done!

[Guest GPM]

OK so I've been riding the bike with 87 octane, with a switch for Autotune installed. It was leaning the mixture out, but I'll be buggered if I could tell the difference between the system with the switch on or off. There are negative values in the cells as expected, and I tested it a number of times and sure enough the switch works (by running on the centrestand and looking at the "fuel" values changing or not depending on if the switch was on or not). It was still getting progressively worse/crap around small throttle openings on a zero map, Autotune or not.

According to my paper guide (that came with my autotune & PCV) when you 'switch' off the Autotune it will operate with on the base map + trims (ie. there should be no difference between autotune on and off with a switch, except it isn't updating the trims as you go). Your results would indicate that the materials they sent me is correct.

Today I rode to work with the PCV disconnected. It was much better, and I found it to be a pleasure to ride.

I just think there is no such thing as a true zero map. My assumption of *why* this is the case, is the fact that the Powercommander is a two-dimensional overlay on an internal ECU's three-dimensional map. Even with zero in every cell, the lower resolution of the power commander must be causing it to behave in an unforeseen way. Powercommander don't even offer zero maps anymore, and maybe there could be good reasons for this?

Depends on what you are expecting a PCV 0-map to do. Even if there is some 3rd dimensional element in Honda's map that we don't know about, all the Powercommander does is take ECU signal, alter as per the fuel adjustment (which in the case of a 0 map would be do nothing) and send the signal on its way again. The Powercommander itself works entirely on relatives - it only adjusts the signal being sent by whatever percentages, it has no idea on what the absolute numbers involved are (for example, say you have 2 cells, both with a 20% increase in the PCV map - for cell one the ECU signal results in 1 unit of fuel being used, for cell two the ECU signal results in 2 units of fuel being used - the PCV 'adjusts' both, cell one now results in 1.2 units of fuel, cell two results in 2.4 units of fuel - but the PCV has idea on what the end result is). So it is quite possible to have two adjacent cells, one with a -20% adjustment, the other with a +20% adjustment, resulting in exactly the same amount of fuel being used - it all depends on what the stock ECU is calling for. Of course, in reality the ECU has a reasonably smooth progression in the amount of fuel being applied, and as such, the PCV map should show this as well, though there are exceptions (particularly around the open/closed loop barriers).

Autotune changes this all somewhat, because it does provide an absolute - the end AFR. Granted we don't know how much fuel is being used, nor how much air, but we do know the absolute end result (expressed in a relative format). Using the autotune adds a bit of smarts to itself. If you have a cell set to aim for an AFR of 13.5, but when you hit the Autotune picks up an AFR of 15, the PCV knows there are too many units of air compared to units of fuel. It still doesn't know how many of each are in play, but it can increase the amount of fuel, by applying a relative alteration (in percentage form) to fix it up. Vice versa for cells resulting in a rich reading.

Ok, the actual point of all that rambling. I am coming to the conclusion that when you run an Autotune what it actually says in the fuel/trim map is not all that important, as it is all relative. If you have -20% across the board then clearly your bike was running very rich using just the ECU. Now, a huge uniform change in fuel adjustments would not be likely on a stock bike, but your bike isn't really stock any more, and any mods or maintenance (such as your recent injector cleaning) could explain such a shift. Sadly, all that is prefaced on the fact that the Autotune + PCV are working correctly, and I would say that as your bike is running like absolute crap that it probably isn't - but it's the crap running that indicates that, not the readings you are getting by themselves.

I am in a unique situation, in that my bike now runs richer than most and there probably isn't a map out there for me that will work. I need to piss off now and not come back to this thread until I have my headers fitted and a custom tune done!

Maybe you need to give the Popsrcr fix a shot - reinstall all the software and reflash - his problems were visually very apparent, but I suspect a not so good flash can take on other, more subtle, guises.

[Popsrcr]

Getting there. I rode today, and came home to NOTHING in my tables. So, figuring I had bunged it all up with my adventures, I went back to square one with the map. I reloaded the one from Dynojet, and enabled auto tune.

My question: Under advance/demote, what are you using for Fuel table and Target AFR? I know I want to be at gear advanced, but cylinder and gear for fuel and gear for afr, or???

Basic, i know, but I'm tired of starting over.

I'm waiting 120 sec, and I set temp @ 90, maybe should be higher?

Thanks gentlemen. Now I see I need to read the latest here.

[kaldek]

My question: Under advance/demote, what are you using for Fuel table and Target AFR? I know I want to be at gear advanced, but cylinder and gear for fuel and gear for afr, or???

If your bike is a 2002-2005 model, you don't need gear advanced. "Basic Fuel" and "Basic AFR" are all you need, as only the 2006-2009 models have per-gear ECU maps. I had my '02 configured with "gear advanced" and it was AWFUL, because it just took ages for the Autotune to learn anything due to me shifting gears all the time (do note however that I have been trying to trim my way out from a zero map!!). However for 2006+ owners, it's a demon they have to live with until their system trims itself out over a longer period of time.

I'm waiting 120 sec, and I set temp @ 90, maybe should be higher?

Have you calibrated your engine temps yet? Note that the calibrated values provided by GPM are for centigrade, not fahrenheit.

For now, disable the engine temperature checkbox for the Autotune and just go with the 120 second delay. Go for a ride - you will get trim values even within a few minutes!

To confirm the engine temperature stuff is working, you need to run the bike on the centrestand with the laptop connected, and make sure that the temperature reading in the Powercommander software shows up correctly, otherwise the temperature reading may never hit the value you have set in the Autotune.

Here is the best way to go about your temperature calibration:

• Put bike on centrestand
  
• Connect a multimeter to the negative battery terminal and the temperature wire which is connected to the powercommander
  
• Set the multimeter to measure in the 2000 millivolts range
  
• Write ten temperature values on a piece of paper, starting at the top from 198 and working down to 98
  
• Make sure the bike is cold, and start her up
  
• Let the bike run and begin to heat up
  
• Each time the temperature on the dash hits a value on your piece of paper, note the reading on the multimeter next to it
  
• Note that once the bike his 168 degrees, it will take a fair while to get up to 198 (because the coolant has to heat up)
  
• Keep this up until you have all the values from 98 to 198 written down
  
• Enter all these values (the temperatures and their respectice voltage readings) into the temperature calibration fields in the powercommander software
  
• Let the bike cool down completely
  
• Remove the seat, plug the laptop into the powercommander and leave it running on a stool or table nearby where you can see it
  
• Start the bike back up, let it warm up and make sure that the temperature shown on the dash matches (within a few degrees) the temperature shown in the powercommander software.
  
• Set your autotune to enable at 160 degrees (just below where the thermostat opens), and go riding!
  

The reason I don't like to enable my Autotune higher than the temperature where the thermostat opens, is that on cold days the bike will run right around that temperature and it's possible that your Autotune could flip-flop between being enabled and disabled. This would probably not feel good!

[Popsrcr]

My question: Under advance/demote, what are you using for Fuel table and Target AFR? I know I want to be at gear advanced, but cylinder and gear for fuel and gear for afr, or???

If your bike is a 2002-2005 model, you don't need gear advanced. "Basic Fuel" and "Basic AFR" are all you need, as only the 2006-2009 models have per-gear ECU maps.

I'm waiting 120 sec, and I set temp @ 90, maybe should be higher?

Have you calibrated your engine temps yet? Note that the calibrated values provided by GPM are for centigrade, not fahrenheit.

For now, disable the engine temperature checkbox for the Autotune and just go with the 120 second delay. Go for a ride - you will get trim values even within a few minutes!

To confirm the engine temperature stuff is working, you need to run the bike on the centrestand with the laptop connected, and make sure that the temperature reading in the Powercommander software shows up correctly, otherwise the temperature reading may never hit the value you have set in the Autotune.

Here is the best way to go about your temperature calibration:

• Put bike on centrestand
  
• Connect a multimeter to the negative batter terminal and the temperature wire connected to the powercommander
  
• Set the multimeter to measure in the 2000 millivolts range
  
• Write ten temperature values on a piece of paper, starting at the top from 198 and working down to 98
  
• Make sure the bike is cold, and start her up
  
• Let the bike run and begin to heat up
  
• Each time the temperature on the dash hits a value on your piece of paper, note the reading on the multimeter next to it
  
• Note that once the bike his 168 degrees, it will take a fair while to get up to 198 (because the coolant has to heat up)
  
• Keep this up until you have all the values from 98 to 198 written down
  
• Enter all these values into the temperature calibration fields in the powercommander software
  
• Let the bike cool down completely
  
• Remove the seat, plug the laptop into the powercommander and leave it running on a stool or table nearby where you can see it
  
• Start the bike back up, let it warm up and make sure that the temperature shown on the dash matches (within a few degrees) the temperature shown in the powercommander software.
  
• Set your autotune to enable at 168 degrees, and go riding!
  

Its an 08, so that question stands. :-) I knew I wanted gear, but am unsure about gear + cylinder.

Temps on the laptop match those on the LCD, so seems close enough. I stole some values Codewriter had in another thread. Thanks! hehe

I just think my map got corrupted with all the messing around, so I think I'll be good now once I set the gear right.

[kaldek]

I know I said I would piss off from this thread, but I just couldn't stay away. I decided to not be afraid of my "-20" trim values I saw and decided to just drop in a zero map, some decent AFR tables, enable the Autotune and KEEP RIDING, MOTHERF***ER.

So anyway after four rides....I think it's bloody working.

Check out what my fuel table has in it after accepting 4 session's worth of trims. Whacky stuff, but the bike at the moment feels rather nice. :unsure:

4th session after trims accepted

It would be safe to say that my bike was running RICH AS A B*TCH after I had the injectors cleaned.

You watch though. I'll ride home tonight and she'll probably run like crap!! :fing02:

[kaldek]

Its an 08, so that question stands. :-) I knew I wanted gear, but am unsure about gear + cylinder.

Temps on the laptop match those on the LCD, so seems close enough. I stole some values Codewriter had in another thread. Thanks!

No, you don't want gear+cylinder. The Autotune is only monitoring two of four cylinders anyway.

What the powercommander will do by default is apply the percentage rich/lean values in each table to each cylinder individually.

For example, let's make up some numbers for a laugh and say that at X throttle and X rpm, the Honda ECU sends a value of "11" to cylinder #1 and "13" to cylinder #4. If your Powercommander has a value of, say, "10" for that same throttle and rpm location, then the result would be that cylinder #1 ends up being "21" and cylinder #4 ends up at "23".

So, only if the Honda ECU was making *wildly* different entries to each cylinder would a per-cylinder map have any value. Certainly your Autotune can't trim for it as there's only one autotune and four cylinders! A dyno tuner would have to put O2 sensors up *each* header pipe in order to tune for each cylinder, and even then your Autotune would only screw tha base map up because it's getting averaged values from two cylinders.

I've completely made up the numbers here of course, it's just an example.

[Popsrcr]

Totally makes sense, thanks. What's the per cylinder for then, the v-twin with two sensors, I guess?

[kaldek]

Totally makes sense, thanks. What's the per cylinder for then, the v-twin with two sensors, I guess?

Harley-Davidsons, mainly! It's why they have the AT-100 autotune kit with two O2 sensors in it.

And maybe race bikes looking for the sweetest custom tune possible.