Power Commander 5 W/autotune Update 2

[coderighter]

So I got about 6k miles on the combo and all is well.

I did find one "issue". I started noticing that some times when leaving a light, I would get a ever so slight hesitation.

After some testing and research I found what caused the "issue". To understand, you need to keep in mind that checking the air fuel ratio with an O2 sensor is getting the info is after the fact. That is, the mixture has all ready been made and ignited. The "issue" was that when I would come to a light, I would down shift through the gears. I would throttle up to "catch" those the gears. The Autotune would try and tune to the fuel ratio that I had in the table for those RPM / throttle positions. The problem is that what the ECM wants is super lean for those RPM / throttle positions under deceleration. That's alot different mixture than what it calls for under cruise. Under this situation, the Autotune sets the trim table way rich (limited by the max increase possible you set in the Autotune). When you go to accelerate from the light, the trim table for those areas are rich and it takes a split second for the O2 sensor to read the mixture and correct it, making all well again. This can also be a problem when trying update the trims to your table, since some my not be "correct".

Well, I came up with a very easy fix. The PC5 has connections to switch the Autotune on and off. I happen to have a adjustable vacuum switch left over from another project that I decided to wire to that on / off switch connection. I disconnected the vacuum solenoid and connected that vacuum line to my hand vacuum pump to use it's gauge, since that's the one I'm going to use to set the switch. I put the pump in the window pocket of my tank bag and went for a ride. The port was very stable, about 7-11 inches at cruise. I used that info to set the vacuum switch to trip at 14 inches and greater, which are the readings under deceleration. This turns the Autotune off while I'm decelerating. The switch resets at 12 inches which gives a real nice buffer area so that you don't get in a constant on/off, on/off. Problem solved, the Autotune on / off is seamless and all is now perfect.

In my testing, I found that the Evap solenoid opens at around 15mph (ever notice a surge there?!?) and stays open until you either pull in the clutch, throttle to zero, or shift into neutral. I find this strange, I would think the canister would be purged under deceleration. I decided this could only cause problems with the Autotune, so I removed the Evap system and I'm using that vacuum source for my vacuum switch and I'm using the bolt hole that held the solenoid to mount the switch with a stainless angle bracket I had.

I also got tried of dealing with the mounting of velco on the curved plastic, so I came up with this:

.

PC mount

I can still get in tool kit under it and it keeps the electronics secure and away from the heat, while still giving good access to the USB port.

[Guest Action]

Nice find. I don't know if I'll ever switch over to a PC V, but it's cool to know none the less.

Action

[JES_VFR]

That is an important and interesting bit of info.

Kudos on the solution to the issue, but it makes me wonder about a couple of things.

Why isn't the canister purged at high vacuum levels??

I wonder, does the ecm not see zero load when you blip the throttle to match revs??

I though this new ecm strategy used calculated load based on TPS, rpm, gear and Delta Rpm direction..

If so I would try setting the adjustments in the table at zero loads to very lean all the away along the row or column.

Then it would quickly want to trim back and not get the autotune module confused.

Also is there any "throttle position latency" factor, if so cut it down until it starts to be touchy at steady cruise. Like the old dashpot dampers on carbureted engines there is a function built into the EFI to prevent it from shutting off to quickly or too long to prevent stalling. The PCV may or may not be able to alter that. If it can I'd say have at it.

One last question, is there anyway to adjust the O2 sensors delay for less hysteresis in the autotune module?

I have some experience with some of these factors on automotive systems and I'm sure that they exist in MC tuning.

[coderighter]

That is an important and interesting bit of info.

Kudos on the solution to the issue, but it makes me wonder about a couple of things.

Why isn't the canister purged at high vacuum levels??

I wonder, does the ecm not see zero load when you blip the throttle to match revs??

I though this new ecm strategy used calculated load based on TPS, rpm, gear and Delta Rpm direction..

If so I would try setting the adjustments in the table at zero loads to very lean all the away along the row or column.

Then it would quickly want to trim back and not get the autotune module confused.

Also is there any "throttle position latency" factor, if so cut it down until it starts to be touchy at steady cruise. Like the old dashpot dampers on carbureted engines there is a function built into the EFI to prevent it from shutting off to quickly or too long to prevent stalling. The PCV may or may not be able to alter that. If it can I'd say have at it.

One last question, is there anyway to adjust the O2 sensors delay for less hysteresis in the autotune module?

I have some experience with some of these factors on automotive systems and I'm sure that they exist in MC tuning.

I'm not sure why Honda decided to purge the canister when they do, but I hooked a really bright LED to the connection for the solenoid and it is what it is. My experience with cars, is they purge under high vacuum, which makes more sense to me since the mixture is less critical. Besides nothing pulls air (purges) better than high vacuum. Maybe EPA thought that hydrocarbons introduced in the engine at high vacuum, won't get burned good enough. After all, they're making manufactures shut the fuel off at zero throttle (above highest possible idle of course).

The problem has nothing to do with the bike ECM. It's operating correctly. When your decelerating it goes lean to lower emissions and save gas. The bike can go lean when it's not under load, nothing will be harmed, it's a win, win. The problem is the Power Commander only looks up a mixture correction map based on throttle position and engine RPM. It has no way of knowing engine load, especially when you're not doing gear-by-gear mapping. Image, 1st gear down a steep hill, 10% throttle, 4k rpm. Well, that would be deceleration to the bikes ECM, lean mixture (>15 to 1). Now, level ground, 6th gear, 10% throttle 4K, ECM see engine under load, much richer mixture (around 13.5 to 1). Well the Power Commander only see the RPM and throttle position. To the Power Commander, there is no difference and the Autotune it will try and fix the lean mixture to match the table. Now this an extreme example, just to illustrate my point. Having gear-by-gear Power Commander maps will help a lot.

The Power Commander only knows where the throttle is at, not which direction its traveling or how fast, as it pertains to mapping. It does look at it for their 'accelerator pump' feature, which works well. I currently have that feature turned off because I'm trying to pin down a really good base map.

One of the most important differences between autos and bikes, is that bikes don't have airflow meters. This is very important. If you do a stuff to make the bike breathe better, it has no way of knowing. You'll make an already lean mixture, leaner. If you make a car breathe better, the airflow meter will see the increased airflow and tell the ECM to toss a little more fuel in, hence the power gain. All of this is with reason of course.

[JES_VFR]

I'm not sure why Honda decided to purge the canister when they do, but I hooked a really bright LED to the connection for the solenoid and it is what it is. My experience with cars, is they purge under high vacuum, which makes more sense to me since the mixture is less critical. Besides nothing pulls air (purges) better than high vacuum. Maybe EPA thought that hydrocarbons introduced in the engine at high vacuum, won't get burned good enough. After all, they're making manufactures shut the fuel off at zero throttle (above highest possible idle of course).

The problem has nothing to do with the bike ECM. It's operating correctly. When your decelerating it goes lean to lower emissions and save gas. The bike can go lean when it's not under load, nothing will be harmed, it's a win, win. The problem is the Power Commander only looks up a mixture correction map based on throttle position and engine RPM. It has no way of knowing engine load, especially when you're not doing gear-by-gear mapping. Image, 1st gear down a steep hill, 10% throttle, 4k rpm. Well, that would be deceleration to the bikes ECM, lean mixture (>15 to 1). Now, level ground, 6th gear, 10% throttle 4K, ECM see engine under load, much richer mixture (around 13.5 to 1). Well the Power Commander only see the RPM and throttle position. To the Power Commander, there is no difference and the Autotune it will try and fix the lean mixture to match the table. Now this an extreme example, just to illustrate my point. Having gear-by-gear Power Commander maps will help a lot.

The Power Commander only knows where the throttle is at, not which direction its traveling or how fast, as it pertains to mapping. It does look at it for their 'accelerator pump' feature, which works well. I currently have that feature turned off because I'm trying to pin down a really good base map.

One of the most important differences between autos and bikes, is that bikes don't have airflow meters. This is very important. If you do a stuff to make the bike breathe better, it has no way of knowing. You'll make an already lean mixture, leaner. If you make a car breathe better, the airflow meter will see the increased airflow and tell the ECM to toss a little more fuel in, hence the power gain. All of this is with reason of course.

Okay I get it. The issue is more with the PC V's programming or the Autotunes programming.

Are you planning on going to Gear by Gear mapping as it still sounds like it would help with this issue.

Also is there a load offset map that would allow you to offset the rpm ranges across the cells when you us gear by gear maps? Then the 6th gear maps could have more resolution at the lower load ranges (say every 5% instead of 10%, until you pass 30%).

Still Gear by gear would be the best way to handle this, since as you pointed out low load conditions vary the most as you go up and down through the gears.

I know that bikes don't have Air flow meters, but not all car systems do either. A lot of race systems are 'speed density' and work from "known" airflow calculations. I used them on turbo motors as high boost could exceed the metering capabilities of a small mass air and a large one would not have enough sensitivity at low flow.

[Baileyrock]

Fun, educating & entertaining stuff here guys, I'm enjoying the process.

Thanks :blink:

[coderighter]

I'm not sure why Honda decided to purge the canister when they do, but I hooked a really bright LED to the connection for the solenoid and it is what it is. My experience with cars, is they purge under high vacuum, which makes more sense to me since the mixture is less critical. Besides nothing pulls air (purges) better than high vacuum. Maybe EPA thought that hydrocarbons introduced in the engine at high vacuum, won't get burned good enough. After all, they're making manufactures shut the fuel off at zero throttle (above highest possible idle of course).

The problem has nothing to do with the bike ECM. It's operating correctly. When your decelerating it goes lean to lower emissions and save gas. The bike can go lean when it's not under load, nothing will be harmed, it's a win, win. The problem is the Power Commander only looks up a mixture correction map based on throttle position and engine RPM. It has no way of knowing engine load, especially when you're not doing gear-by-gear mapping. Image, 1st gear down a steep hill, 10% throttle, 4k rpm. Well, that would be deceleration to the bikes ECM, lean mixture (>15 to 1). Now, level ground, 6th gear, 10% throttle 4K, ECM see engine under load, much richer mixture (around 13.5 to 1). Well the Power Commander only see the RPM and throttle position. To the Power Commander, there is no difference and the Autotune it will try and fix the lean mixture to match the table. Now this an extreme example, just to illustrate my point. Having gear-by-gear Power Commander maps will help a lot.

The Power Commander only knows where the throttle is at, not which direction its traveling or how fast, as it pertains to mapping. It does look at it for their 'accelerator pump' feature, which works well. I currently have that feature turned off because I'm trying to pin down a really good base map.

One of the most important differences between autos and bikes, is that bikes don't have airflow meters. This is very important. If you do a stuff to make the bike breathe better, it has no way of knowing. You'll make an already lean mixture, leaner. If you make a car breathe better, the airflow meter will see the increased airflow and tell the ECM to toss a little more fuel in, hence the power gain. All of this is with reason of course.

Okay I get it. The issue is more with the PC V's programming or the Autotunes programming.

Are you planning on going to Gear by Gear mapping as it still sounds like it would help with this issue.

Also is there a load offset map that would allow you to offset the rpm ranges across the cells when you us gear by gear maps? Then the 6th gear maps could have more resolution at the lower load ranges (say every 5% instead of 10%, until you pass 30%).

Still Gear by gear would be the best way to handle this, since as you pointed out low load conditions vary the most as you go up and down through the gears.

I know that bikes don't have Air flow meters, but not all car systems do either. A lot of race systems are 'speed density' and work from "known" airflow calculations. I used them on turbo motors as high boost could exceed the metering capabilities of a small mass air and a large one would not have enough sensitivity at low flow.

I am doing gear by gear, which is by far the best way to go. All the map resolutions are the same but remember the PCV gives you the added 15% throttle that the PCIII doesn't have. I would say that it's more of a hardware issue with the PCV. If it had a provision for monitoring manifold vaccum this "problem" wouldn't be a issue. By the way, all the Autotune programming is part of the PCV. The Autotune is just a dumb wide band sensor feeding A/F ratio info to the PCV. I bought my Autotune back in May when they were just coming out and the box actually had a Autotune sticker over a Wide Band 2 label and the warranty card inside was for a Wide Band 2. I don't know this for a fact, but you may be able to connect a Wide Band 2 to a PCV, enable Autotune feature, and it just might work. Of course they may add a special device ID for the bus that stops you from cheating like that. If anybody out there has a Wide Band 2 and buys a PCV, they should try it and pass on the info. I they cost the same. The advantage would be if you all ready had the Wide Band 2.

[ermisVFR]

................. I happen to have a adjustable vacuum switch left over from another project that I decided to wire to that on / off switch connection. ..........

Can you tell me the type of the vacuum switch you used?

Do you think that we could have the same result if instead of the vacuum switch to use the electrical circuit of the PAIR valve that is mainly activated while decelerating?

[TomN]

Earlier this year I purchased a 2007 VFR and overall, I like the bike however, I am disappointed in the smoothness of the power delivery below 6000 rpm. There are several flat spots where you give it throttle and the bike stumbles, hesitates or does not accelerate, apply more throttle and the bike responds.

I have read quite a few threads about the PCIII and the PCV upgrades VFR owners have installed and most people think it is the solution to the problem. As I understand it, the main difference between the two is the PCV has an additional throttle position (15%), tune by gear and can be used with the Autotune 200 module.

I have the stock exhaust and I don’t plan on changing it anytime soon. I also have the stock air filter, should I change it to a K&N before I install the PC?

There are quite a few comments about which PC can be used with which year VFR and also a lot of discussion about the various maps. If I Purchase a PCV I think it has to be the 2009 model as they do not list a PCV for a 2007 VFR. From the threads, the maps are the same as the PCIII maps with the exception of the 15% throttle position.

Having never had a PCIII/PCV, I assume you change maps via a laptop with a USB cable. How easy is it to change maps?

I do not want to spend hours changing maps and fine tuning the system, I want something that will work well (not race tuned) with the least amount of time. In relation to the Autotune 200, it’s not an issue of money, just time spent tinkering, I don't have the time. I have spent countless hours in the shop tinkering with race bikes and cars and now I want to ride a nice smooth bike without the hassle of fiddling with it. Additionally, I am not Randy Road Racer trying to squeeze every ounce of power from the motor, just smooth and reliable power delivery.

So, I am looking for recommendations should I get a

PCIII, install the cozye map and ride it

PCV, install the cozye modified map and ride it

PCV with AT200, tinker with it and ride it

Other, you tell me

Thanks, Tom

[coderighter]

Earlier this year I purchased a 2007 VFR and overall, I like the bike however, I am disappointed in the smoothness of the power delivery below 6000 rpm. There are several flat spots where you give it throttle and the bike stumbles, hesitates or does not accelerate, apply more throttle and the bike responds.

I have read quite a few threads about the PCIII and the PCV upgrades VFR owners have installed and most people think it is the solution to the problem. As I understand it, the main difference between the two is the PCV has an additional throttle position (15%), tune by gear and can be used with the Autotune 200 module.

I have the stock exhaust and I don’t plan on changing it anytime soon. I also have the stock air filter, should I change it to a K&N before I install the PC?

There are quite a few comments about which PC can be used with which year VFR and also a lot of discussion about the various maps. If I Purchase a PCV I think it has to be the 2009 model as they do not list a PCV for a 2007 VFR. From the threads, the maps are the same as the PCIII maps with the exception of the 15% throttle position.

Having never had a PCIII/PCV, I assume you change maps via a laptop with a USB cable. How easy is it to change maps?

I do not want to spend hours changing maps and fine tuning the system, I want something that will work well (not race tuned) with the least amount of time. In relation to the Autotune 200, it’s not an issue of money, just time spent tinkering, I don't have the time. I have spent countless hours in the shop tinkering with race bikes and cars and now I want to ride a nice smooth bike without the hassle of fiddling with it. Additionally, I am not Randy Road Racer trying to squeeze every ounce of power from the motor, just smooth and reliable power delivery.

So, I am looking for recommendations should I get a

PCIII, install the cozye map and ride it

PCV, install the cozye modified map and ride it

PCV with AT200, tinker with it and ride it

Other, you tell me

Thanks, Tom

First, PCV by itself, will do everything the PCIII will do in a smaller package, for the same money (plus or minus a couple bucks). The PCV will also do things a PCIII won't, mainly map by gear, 0-5v input to connect sensors to further alter mapping, and of course the all mighty Autotune. You don't have to use any of these features now. but at least if you change your mind in the future you can. Any map that works on a PCII and be made to work on a PCV.

Loading the maps are very easy. Hook-up a computer (USB), open the program then click the "send map" button and about 3-4secs later, it's done.

Install of a Power Commander by it's self is about a half hour plug and play, tops.

Autotune adds 1 to 2 hours. You need to disable PAIR. If you map by gear, you have to connect to the vehicle speed sensor and do a little calibration work. Then if you want not sample until you get up to temp, you have to connect to the temp sensor, and calibrate that. Once that's all done, you only spend much time tinkering as you want. It pretty much takes care of itself, hence the term "Autotune".

My 2 cents.

[JES_VFR]

Well, I came up with a very easy fix. The PC5 has connections to switch the Autotune on and off. I happen to have a adjustable vacuum switch left over from another project that I decided to wire to that on / off switch connection. I disconnected the vacuum solenoid and connected that vacuum line to my hand vacuum pump to use it's gauge, since that's the one I'm going to use to set the switch. I put the pump in the window pocket of my tank bag and went for a ride. The port was very stable, about 7-11 inches at cruise. I used that info to set the vacuum switch to trip at 14 inches and greater, which are the readings under deceleration. This turns the Autotune off while I'm decelerating. The switch resets at 12 inches which gives a real nice buffer area so that you don't get in a constant on/off, on/off. Problem solved, the Autotune on / off is seamless and all is now perfect.

Hey can you give us the source for the vacuum switch? I may need this for more than just a way to switch off the Auto-tune on a project I'm working on.

Also can you confirm for me, if the pair solenoid is activated or deactivated on deceleration? For some reason I thought it was deactivated, but someone else here said its activated on decel.

Lastly, you said the temperature sensor has to be calibrated, which is the first I've heard about this. Is it a difficult process, can you describe the procedure?

At this point I think the PC5 + autotune and a vacuum switch is going to about half of the hardware costs on this project.

At least I'm hoping so.

hoping to find some simple answers to some complex questions.

[coderighter]

Well, I came up with a very easy fix. The PC5 has connections to switch the Autotune on and off. I happen to have a adjustable vacuum switch left over from another project that I decided to wire to that on / off switch connection. I disconnected the vacuum solenoid and connected that vacuum line to my hand vacuum pump to use it's gauge, since that's the one I'm going to use to set the switch. I put the pump in the window pocket of my tank bag and went for a ride. The port was very stable, about 7-11 inches at cruise. I used that info to set the vacuum switch to trip at 14 inches and greater, which are the readings under deceleration. This turns the Autotune off while I'm decelerating. The switch resets at 12 inches which gives a real nice buffer area so that you don't get in a constant on/off, on/off. Problem solved, the Autotune on / off is seamless and all is now perfect.

Hey can you give us the source for the vacuum switch? I may need this for more than just a way to switch off the Auto-tune on a project I'm working on.

Also can you confirm for me, if the pair solenoid is activated or deactivated on deceleration? For some reason I thought it was deactivated, but someone else here said its activated on decel.

Lastly, you said the temperature sensor has to be calibrated, which is the first I've heard about this. Is it a difficult process, can you describe the procedure?

At this point I think the PC5 + autotune and a vacuum switch is going to about half of the hardware costs on this project.

At least I'm hoping so.

hoping to find some simple answers to some complex questions.

Will, I thought I had two sources but the one on Ebay for $50 (with shipping) was a 1 to 6 inch hg where the model I have 6 to 24 inch hg. The other source was $20 a piece (plus shipping), however when I went to order one (for brake light experiment) I found they had a 5 piece min. Went ahead and ordered 5 thinking I would either use them or sell them on Ebay. I should get them next week. Would you like 1 or more of them? By the way, they have a normally open and normally closed contact rated @ 15 amps, 120v.

I hooked a led to the PAIR solenoid and the only time I could get it to light was closed throttle. However, I have since read that it is also on when the temp is below 160. I have not tried this but have read several accounts in a couple different places. The day I tested, I had done a couple our things on the bike and I believe when I left, it was over 160, but I'm not positive. I didn't think the engine temp would play into it. I removed my so don't feel the need to revisit this but if anybody finds out anything different, please pass it along. If this is true, the only advantage to disconnecting might be smoother off idle. Other than that, it's a none factor.

The temp is just a 0-5v sensor. The PVC has 2 to 10 cells temp cells, you choose. The more cells, the more accurate. Lets say you choose 4, you than give them a temps, say 150,170,190,and 210. You then use a volt meter, start the bike and measure the temp sensor to ground. As you get to those temps (150,170,190,210), record the voltage. Next, enter the voltage reading in the cells below the corresponding temp and your done. The PCV will use this info to figure all the temps in between. That's why the more you use, the more accurate. Or if you want, I can email you mine. I'm pretty OCD and did all ten, twice, just to make sure.

[JES_VFR]

Will, I thought I had two sources but the one on Ebay for $50 (with shipping) was a 1 to 6 inch hg where the model I have 6 to 24 inch hg. The other source was $20 a piece (plus shipping), however when I went to order one (for brake light experiment) I found they had a 5 piece min. Went ahead and ordered 5 thinking I would either use them or sell them on Ebay. I should get them next week. Would you like 1 or more of them? By the way, they have a normally open and normally closed contact rated @ 15 amps, 120v.

yeah I'd be interested in getting one, maybe two, but at least one. The first thought is duplicate your setup with one my 5th gen to shut off the autotune function on deceleration.

The second I'll use if the Pair Solenoid turns out to not run at lower engine temps as I need a way to shut off vapor flow from device on deceleration.

I hooked a led to the PAIR solenoid and the only time I could get it to light was closed throttle. However, I have since read that it is also on when the temp is below 160. I have not tried this but have read several accounts in a couple different places. The day I tested, I had done a couple our things on the bike and I believe when I left, it was over 160, but I'm not positive. I didn't think the engine temp would play into it. I removed my so don't feel the need to revisit this but if anybody finds out anything different, please pass it along. If this is true, the only advantage to disconnecting might be smoother off idle. Other than that, it's a none factor.

I've had block off plates on my VFR since before Toro was done with the prototyping of the toro-charger. I just capped the ports of the solenoid and the airbox and left it plugged in. But if it really only opens on deceleration, then I'd rather use it to control the vapor from a project device. If not I can always find a spot for another vacuum switch, a relay and another small ported solenoid.

The temp is just a 0-5v sensor. The PVC has 2 to 10 cells temp cells, you choose. The more cells, the more accurate. Lets say you choose 4, you than give them a temps, say 150,170,190,and 210. You then use a volt meter, start the bike and measure the temp sensor to ground. As you get to those temps (150,170,190,210), record the voltage. Next, enter the voltage reading in the cells below the corresponding temp and your done. The PCV will use this info to figure all the temps in between. That's why the more you use, the more accurate. Or if you want, I can email you mine. I'm pretty OCD and did all ten, twice, just to make sure.

Will your tables work with a set of 5th gen maps?

If not I'll just do it myself, it doesn't sound impossible.

I'm really hoping I can get some positive results with my project before I have to install the PC-V, autotune, the vacuum switch and more tuning stuff.

But we will see shortly.

[coderighter]

Will, I thought I had two sources but the one on Ebay for $50 (with shipping) was a 1 to 6 inch hg where the model I have 6 to 24 inch hg. The other source was $20 a piece (plus shipping), however when I went to order one (for brake light experiment) I found they had a 5 piece min. Went ahead and ordered 5 thinking I would either use them or sell them on Ebay. I should get them next week. Would you like 1 or more of them? By the way, they have a normally open and normally closed contact rated @ 15 amps, 120v.

yeah I'd be interested in getting one, maybe two, but at least one. The first thought is duplicate your setup with one my 5th gen to shut off the autotune function on deceleration.

The second I'll use if the Pair Solenoid turns out to not run at lower engine temps as I need a way to shut off vapor flow from device on deceleration.

I hooked a led to the PAIR solenoid and the only time I could get it to light was closed throttle. However, I have since read that it is also on when the temp is below 160. I have not tried this but have read several accounts in a couple different places. The day I tested, I had done a couple our things on the bike and I believe when I left, it was over 160, but I'm not positive. I didn't think the engine temp would play into it. I removed my so don't feel the need to revisit this but if anybody finds out anything different, please pass it along. If this is true, the only advantage to disconnecting might be smoother off idle. Other than that, it's a none factor.

I've had block off plates on my VFR since before Toro was done with the prototyping of the toro-charger. I just capped the ports of the solenoid and the airbox and left it plugged in. But if it really only opens on deceleration, then I'd rather use it to control the vapor from a project device. If not I can always find a spot for another vacuum switch, a relay and another small ported solenoid.

The temp is just a 0-5v sensor. The PVC has 2 to 10 cells temp cells, you choose. The more cells, the more accurate. Lets say you choose 4, you than give them a temps, say 150,170,190,and 210. You then use a volt meter, start the bike and measure the temp sensor to ground. As you get to those temps (150,170,190,210), record the voltage. Next, enter the voltage reading in the cells below the corresponding temp and your done. The PCV will use this info to figure all the temps in between. That's why the more you use, the more accurate. Or if you want, I can email you mine. I'm pretty OCD and did all ten, twice, just to make sure.

Will your tables work with a set of 5th gen maps?

If not I'll just do it myself, it doesn't sound impossible.

I'm really hoping I can get some positive results with my project before I have to install the PC-V, autotune, the vacuum switch and more tuning stuff.

But we will see shortly.

According to Bike Bandit, the 5th and 6th gen use the same temp sensor so I'm guessing it would work fine. Keep in mind the sensors my very slightly from unit to unit.

[JES_VFR]

According to Bike Bandit, the 5th and 6th gen use the same temp sensor so I'm guessing it would work fine. Keep in mind the sensors my very slightly from unit to unit.

Then yeah I'd appreciate the sensor tables.

Particularly since on the last ride, I did not wait to let the bike warm up and running in 45 deg air it took for ever to get warm.

And even with my nose, I was pretty sure it smelled rich to me until I really got it warmed up after a fuel stop (also got the worst mileage of the 500 mile trip).

Edited November 14, 2009 by JES_VFR

[jasonsmith]

Obviously your running the PCV on your 06, just want to clarify that it worked out of the box as Power Commander shows the setup for 09 and above. Thanks

[coderighter]

'jasonsmith'

Yes, just order the '09 works out of the box no problem. Heck, 'JES_VFR' VFR is an '01!

See this post for more info.

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=52266&view=&hl=&fromsearch=1

'JES_VFR'

Here's what I got for temps - volts

120 - 1.605

130 - 1.482

140 - 1.337

150 - 1.208

160 - 1.015

170 - .862

180 - .775

190 - .693

200 - .643

210 - .580

These my vary a little unit to unit. This should get you real close and you can tweek a little by connecting a computer to the bike while it's running and making changes. A voltage goes down as the temp goes up. Keep in mind that the temp on the right side of the screen is not correct while adjusting the table, you have to clink 'OK" to get the temp to update on the computer.

Just for info, once you set this up you can use the temp enrichment feature. You can set multiple points. I actually set one (10%) at 215 to help cool things down a little in traffic if need be. Just remember to subtract your max lean percentage from the number you want because the Autotune will try and lean it back out. For example, I wanted a 5% enrichment at 215 and my max lean percent on my Autotune is currently 5%. Add the two together and you get the 10% I put in the enrichment table. I'm guessing I could go 10% (15% in the table) but my bike never really gets hot. I think the most I've ever seen is 222. If you lived in a real hot climate, you could go 5% at 215 and 10% at 220 or something.

Let me know if you have any problems.

[JES_VFR]

'JES_VFR'

Here's what I got for temps - volts

120 - 1.605

130 - 1.482

140 - 1.337

150 - 1.208

160 - 1.015

170 - .862

180 - .775

190 - .693

200 - .643

210 - .580

These my vary a little unit to unit. This should get you real close and you can tweek a little by connecting a computer to the bike while it's running and making changes. A voltage goes down as the temp goes up. Keep in mind that the temp on the right side of the screen is not correct while adjusting the table, you have to clink 'OK" to get the temp to update on the computer.

Just for info, once you set this up you can use the temp enrichment feature. You can set multiple points. I actually set one (10%) at 215 to help cool things down a little in traffic if need be. Just remember to subtract your max lean percentage from the number you want because the Autotune will try and lean it back out. For example, I wanted a 5% enrichment at 215 and my max lean percent on my Autotune is currently 5%. Add the two together and you get the 10% I put in the enrichment table. I'm guessing I could go 10% (15% in the table) but my bike never really gets hot. I think the most I've ever seen is 222. If you lived in a real hot climate, you could go 5% at 215 and 10% at 220 or something.

Let me know if you have any problems.

Thanks for the table. I'll be dumping that in as soon as I get the PC V.

How did you make out on the vacuum switches?

I'm going to need one for switching the autotune on and off as well as one for possibly switching the output of this project on and off.

I might try to re-use the pair solenoid, driving by the switch to control the flow.

If you have found a use for the extra switches, can I get the source so that I can order several for myself.

I have a feeling I'll need several more of them in short order.

[TomN]

I got the PC V and Autotune a few weeks ago and finally got them installed today. I loaded the 2009 VFR map from the DynoJet website. The bike started right up and runs at least as well I think a little better. I think I followed all the instructions but am still having a problem. I went for several test rides and then am trying to look at the Autotune Trim map and it is always zeros. What am I doing wrong? Also what is the A/F ration at idle on your bikes? Mine is about 18:1

Any help would be much appreciated.

Cheers, Tom

[TomN]

Got it!!!

Well at least I got the trim table to start gathering data. Next step is to gather a lot more data before I accept the trim table. Is there any easy way to print maps and trim tables?

Cheers, Tom

Edited November 28, 2009 by TomN

[coderighter]

I got the PC V and Autotune a few weeks ago and finally got them installed today. I loaded the 2009 VFR map from the DynoJet website. The bike started right up and runs at least as well I think a little better. I think I followed all the instructions but am still having a problem. I went for several test rides and then am trying to look at the Autotune Trim map and it is always zeros. What am I doing wrong? Also what is the A/F ration at idle on your bikes? Mine is about 18:1

Any help would be much appreciated.

Cheers, Tom

Hmmm.... 18:1 isn't right. I think something might be wrong here. Did you-

1. Disable the PAIR?

2. Set up the Autotune to be disabled unitl at least 160 degrees?

3. Run the O2 sensor test, as per the Autotune manual?

4. If you bike is '06 or newer, did you setup for map-by-gear?

If you want I can send you my latest map. If so, PM me.

[sa1713]

4. If you bike is '06 or newer, did you setup for map-by-gear?

Any chance I could take advantage of the map by gear for my 5th gen?

Jim

[coderighter]

4. If you bike is '06 or newer, did you setup for map-by-gear?

Any chance I could take advantage of the map by gear for my 5th gen?

Jim

Yes, It's just that '06 and newer is map by gear from the factory so to have any Power Commander to work correctly, it needs to be map by gear also.

PCV map by gear is very useful to richen up things in the lower gears to make it run better and still have a fuel efficient (leaner) 5th-6th gear cruise. You could do that regardless of year.

Disclaimer: I've been told a PCV will work on a 5th gen, but never tried it myself.

[sa1713]

4. If you bike is '06 or newer, did you setup for map-by-gear?

Any chance I could take advantage of the map by gear for my 5th gen?

Jim

Yes, It's just that '06 and newer is map by gear from the factory so to have any Power Commander to work correctly, it needs to be map by gear also.

PCV map by gear is very useful to richen up things in the lower gears to make it run better and still have a fuel efficient (leaner) 5th-6th gear cruise. You could do that regardless of year.

Disclaimer: I've been told a PCV will work on a 5th gen, but never tried it myself.

Thank you as that is what I thought, that map by gear would also work on a 5th gen. That sure opens a great deal of options for us.

I've confirmed (thanks JES_VFR) that the PCV will work on the 5th gen (FUELMOTOUSA dot COM) as there are appications set up for the 00-09. I crossed the parts list and the sub wire harness the PCV plugs into is used on the 98-01. I believe the "only" reason Fuelmoto does not have apps for the 98-99 is because those do not use O2 sensors. The PCV will need a bung drilled into the header for it to get the most out of it.

[Popsrcr]

I just ordered a 5 and autotune for my 08. I've never messed with one of these before, so I'll be re-reading the threads to try and better understand.