Cat-less Exhaust. Why?

[Guest thedrunknmastr]

Seen some posts regarding people installing cat-less exhausts. What is the advantage of doing such a thing? Noticable performance difference? I'm always looking for something to tinker on my bike and was trying to figure out why and what would be diff, knowing I have LV cans installed.

[Guest]

The fact that Honda screwed up and used mild steel instead of SS on bikes tells me two things.

Not defending Honda (or any of the other motorcycle manufacturers), the move to stainless steel for exhaust systems was part of the Clean Air Act. It seems like from 2002 on, all vehicles sold in the US had to have exhaust systems that would last either 50,000 miles or the life of the vehicle, I can't remember which. All of the cars went to stainless at the same time also.

Honda used mild steel on the earlier models because it's cheaper and they could from a legal stand point. It all comes down to $$$$.

[Baileyrock]

The fact that Honda screwed up and used mild steel instead of SS on bikes tells me two things.

Not defending Honda (or any of the other motorcycle manufacturers), the move to stainless steel for exhaust systems was part of the Clean Air Act. It seems like from 2002 on, all vehicles sold in the US had to have exhaust systems that would last either 50,000 miles or the life of the vehicle, I can't remember which. All of the cars went to stainless at the same time also.

Honda used mild steel on the earlier models because it's cheaper and they could from a legal stand point. It all comes down to $$$$.

So true! :biggrin:

It might even be 100,000 miles. Every car needed to be able to pass emissions levels w/o a tune-up or maint. for that entire time period, this is where the super plugs, SS exhaust and more advanced engine management came from! :cool:

[TimC]

I know this isn't the point of this thread, but personally I'm OK with keeping the cat on my '04. Unless I'm mistaken, it's environmentally friendlier than cat-less bikes, and I'm trying live 'greener' than I used to.

You would think that shiny things would automatically produce more HP.

I think that's the reasoning behind chrome plating everything possible on a cruiser, right?

Sorry, couldn't resist. :biggrin:

[Ryanme17]

It might even be 100,000 miles. Every car needed to be able to pass emissions levels w/o a tune-up or maint. for that entire time period, this is where the super plugs, SS exhaust and more advanced engine management came from! :biggrin:

Off-topic, but makes me wonder if Iridium plugs offer any real value other than lasting forever...

I know this isn't the point of this thread, but personally I'm OK with keeping the cat on my '04. Unless I'm mistaken, it's environmentally friendlier than cat-less bikes, and I'm trying live 'greener' than I used to.

Yes, your bike with the Catalytic convertor is MUCH more environmentally friendly than one without. Without, you are spewing unburnt fuel, hydrocarbons, and much, much more CO2 and CO (carbon monoxide). They do make a big difference. Driving a 40 mpg motorcycle without a catalytic converter isn't much better than driving an SUV with a cat. Obviously the less fuel used, the less emissions (cat or not).

For proof of this, simply be in the area of a running bike with or without a catalytic converter, you'll easily be able to smell the difference.

[FotoMoto]

Yes, your bike with the Catless headers is MUCH more environmentally friendly than one without.

Sweet. My 4gen must be real clean with it's stainless steel TwoBrothers header! :cool:

I think you need to remove the "less" part out of that sentence. :biggrin:

[Ryanme17]

Yes, your bike with the Catless headers is MUCH more environmentally friendly than one without.

Sweet. My 4gen must be real clean with it's stainless steel TwoBrothers header! :cool:

I think you need to remove the "less" part out of that sentence. :biggrin:

Oooops! Fixed, thanks.

[Guest]

I know this isn't the point of this thread, but personally I'm OK with keeping the cat on my '04. Unless I'm mistaken, it's environmentally friendlier than cat-less bikes, and I'm trying live 'greener' than I used to.

You would think that shiny things would automatically produce more HP.

I think that's the reasoning behind chrome plating everything possible on a cruiser, right?

Sorry, couldn't resist. :laugh:

I chrome plate my chrome just to make sure it's really shiny. Then I polish it with chrome polish.

[Guest]

No, Honda doesn't list anything in the fiche about the headers fitting multiple machines (like they do for other bits) and the 6th gen is a totally different part number (not just a finish code).

also look at the differences in the headers, the six gens cross the front pipes and the rear pipes where as the motads and delkevic's don't

I'd have to see a picture of the 5th gen cat headers to see what they do, but I don't remember the fronts crossing.

That means that exhaust pulse scavenging is quite different in the 6th generations pipes as compared to the delkevic's and the motads.

Is it better or worse I don't know I just can see that it is going to be different.

JES,

On the Delkevics the front and rear pipes are paired up the same as stock. They are not crossed in front but they don't cross in the rear either. I had the same thoughts on scavenging until I had them sitting side by side.

Action

[JES_VFR]

The fact that Honda screwed up and used mild steel instead of SS on bikes tells me two things.

Not defending Honda (or any of the other motorcycle manufacturers), the move to stainless steel for exhaust systems was part of the Clean Air Act. It seems like from 2002 on, all vehicles sold in the US had to have exhaust systems that would last either 50,000 miles or the life of the vehicle, I can't remember which. All of the cars went to stainless at the same time also.

Honda used mild steel on the earlier models because it's cheaper and they could from a legal stand point. It all comes down to $$$$.

Hey I get the part where the clean air act says that some emissions equipment must last 5 years and 50,000 miles (and some of it has to last 10 years and 1,000,000 miles). For cars that kicked in back in the 1990's as my 96 mustang, my sister-in-laws 98 minivan and the f150 I nearly bought all had SS exhausts.

Maybe that portion of the law did not effect bikes until later, but I would have thought that as soon as you put a catalyst in the exhaust to meet emissions requirements the exhaust would have to last for some length of time or mileage (or both). I mean the language had to be in the clean air act from before 2001, unless there were special exceptions for motorcycles.

Since the 2000-2001 VFR's have catalysts it just plain doesn't make sense for Honda to have used mild steel in the exhaust.

Imagine the disaster it would for them if they suddenly had to replace every catalyst equipped VFR's exhaust because the US states enforced the emission laws for motorcycles and rotting pipes would have to be replaced under warranty.

[vlj1216]

I'm waiting on my 5th Gen pipes to arrive, does anyone have the Honda part #s for all 6 gaskets...2 pipe/4 head?

And the gaskets I'll need will be for the 5th Gen not the 6th Gen pipe/head...right?

[vfrcapn]

This is really approaching a point where I have to make a decision as my 5th gen pipes are reaching the critical point.

I highly doubt that they can survive another winter of commuting on the salted roads of the area.

:laugh: :laugh:

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=55057

[JES_VFR]

This is really approaching a point where I have to make a decision as my 5th gen pipes are reaching the critical point.

I highly doubt that they can survive another winter of commuting on the salted roads of the area.

:warranty: :wheel:

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=55057

Well here are the problems with that.

1. Since I'm going to the PC V with auto tune, I'll still need to weld in o2 sensor bungs.\

2. I'll still have to have them cleaned and ceramic coated inside and out (add another 150) to cost of them.

3. I can get the Delkevic's for 130 + shipping and they are 304SS.

[Ryanme17]

3. I can get the Delkevic's for 130 + shipping and they are 304SS.

$130?? Where?!

[vfrcapn]

For you 6th gen folks that have converted to the 5g's non-cat pipes, what have you done for the center stand bump mount? I know something can be fabbed up and tacked on to the pipe but I don't think most people do that, so what was the solution, if any?

[JES_VFR]

3. I can get the Delkevic's for 130 + shipping and they are 304SS.

$130?? Where?!

oops my bad, I did not see that the price was the "starting at 129.99"

Even so 259 + shipping for 304SS is not a bad price.

[FotoMoto]

I used a longer bolt through the mid-pipe clamp that would reach the stand and stuck a rubber grommet on the end of the appropriate thickness to keep it off the header.