Pc V On A 5th Gen

[JES_VFR]

Here goes,

Since the pc III USB for both 5th and 6th generation VFR's is the same box and harness with different maps in it.

and The PC V is backwards compatible when it comes to the 6th generations. I was wondering.

Has anyone tried to make a PC V work on a 5th gen???

The reason is I'm working on a "Special" project and will need to be able to swap between maps on the test bike (which right now is going to be my VFR).

If I go with the PC III USB, there are several additional pieces (multi function hub, map switch module, etc) I will need to make it work which will just about double the cost of the PC install.

That and the specific maps for each gear could be important to the success of this project.

So has anyone tried it yet???

I'd hate get it on this shoe string budget right now, not have it work at all and have to sell it to get the PC III only to have some one else sort out.

Anybody

SEB?

BLS?

[Baileyrock]

John,

I don't see why the PCV wouldn't work for you and be the same price or cheaper than a PCIII, but someone has to be the 1st one to try it! :fing02:

[JES_VFR]

John,

I don't see why the PCV wouldn't work for you and be the same price or cheaper than a PCIII, but someone has to be the 1st one to try it! :fing02:

If the pcIII did all that I wanted it to without needing extras, I would not even be asking questions.

But it doesn't, not without at least 2 more modules (all though if I'm reading there site correctly its four modules), which just about triple the cost.

The PCV will do the things I need without all those extra modules and would be a great big savings.

See with this project, I need things like a map switch and storage for at least two maps, as well as gear specific mapping, as well as a couple of other little features.

I guess I'll just have to scrape together the $$ for a PCV for it and find out for myself.

Now I have no idea what I'm going to use when I step up to putting it on the RC51.

[coderighter]

If you KNOW that a 6th gen PCIII (#111-411 and/or #126-411) works 5th gen then you should have no problem. The map can be made by copy and pasting cells over from a PCIII map file. You'll have to average 10% and 20% to make the 15% row then tweek from there.

[JES_VFR]

If you KNOW that a 6th gen PCIII (#111-411 and/or #126-411) works 5th gen then you should have no problem. The map can be made by copy and pasting cells over from a PCIII map file. You'll have to average 10% and 20% to make the 15% row then tweek from there.

Well I called Dynojet for support just a week or so ago. The tech that I talked to said that they were the same units with different maps in them.

So that's great. PC V it is.

[Ryanme17]

I'll repeat what everyone else said. I see absolutely no reason why it wouldn't work. However, if for some strange reason it does not work, you can probably sell your PCV on here for only a slight loss.

[JES_VFR]

Actually I've had this confirmed and even found a vendor that says that they already have the correct maps and that it can work with the Autotune on 2000-2001 5th gen's.

[wera803]

Hmm, so you have to have the 00-01 header though so you have the 02 sensors though, right?? Or if you have a 98-99 header, you can just weld in the bungs?

[sa1713]

Forgive my ignorance, but what exactly will the PCV provide that the PCIII does not?

[coderighter]

Forgive my ignorance, but what exactly will the PCV provide that the PCIII does not?

The PCV gives you all PCIII features plus-

1. Autotune option.

2. Mapping by gear, which is needed to do a proper map on '06-'09 because they have factory "map-by-gear". On any model, you don't have to run cruise settings in 1st, 2nd and/or 3rd making those gears much smoother.

3. Enrichment by temp, could use this on warm-up or add more fuel when running hot to help cool things down.

4. Operate Dynojet Quick shifter

5. For those of you thinking blower, there's a input for a pressure switch (0-5 volts) so that you can add fuel based on boost pressure.

6. You can load 2 maps (if not using Autotune) that can be toggled on-the-fly.

7. Comes with 02 eliminators included.

8. About half the size.

[Ryanme17]

Forgive my ignorance, but what exactly will the PCV provide that the PCIII does not?

The PCV gives you all PCIII features plus-

1. Autotune option.

2. Mapping by gear, which is needed to do a proper map on '06-'09 because they have factory "map-by-gear". On any model, you don't have to run cruise settings in 1st, 2nd and/or 3rd making those gears much smoother.

3. Enrichment by temp, could use this on warm-up or add more fuel when running hot to help cool things down.

4. Operate Dynojet Quick shifter

5. For those of you thinking blower, there's a input for a pressure switch (0-5 volts) so that you can add fuel based on boost pressure.

6. You can load 2 maps (if not using Autotune) that can be toggled on-the-fly.

Doesn't it also come with 02 eliminators at the same price as a PCIII without?

[coderighter]

Forgive my ignorance, but what exactly will the PCV provide that the PCIII does not?

The PCV gives you all PCIII features plus-

1. Autotune option.

2. Mapping by gear, which is needed to do a proper map on '06-'09 because they have factory "map-by-gear". On any model, you don't have to run cruise settings in 1st, 2nd and/or 3rd making those gears much smoother.

3. Enrichment by temp, could use this on warm-up or add more fuel when running hot to help cool things down.

4. Operate Dynojet Quick shifter

5. For those of you thinking blower, there's a input for a pressure switch (0-5 volts) so that you can add fuel based on boost pressure.

6. You can load 2 maps (if not using Autotune) that can be toggled on-the-fly.

7. Comes with 02 eliminators included.

8. About half the size.

Doesn't it also come with 02 eliminators at the same price as a PCIII without?

Why yes sir, you'd be correct. It's also about half the size.

[wera803]

Forgive my ignorance, but what exactly will the PCV provide that the PCIII does not?

The PCV gives you all PCIII features plus-

1. Autotune option.

2. Mapping by gear, which is needed to do a proper map on '06-'09 because they have factory "map-by-gear". On any model, you don't have to run cruise settings in 1st, 2nd and/or 3rd making those gears much smoother.

3. Enrichment by temp, could use this on warm-up or add more fuel when running hot to help cool things down.

4. Operate Dynojet Quick shifter

5. For those of you thinking blower, there's a input for a pressure switch (0-5 volts) so that you can add fuel based on boost pressure.

6. You can load 2 maps (if not using Autotune) that can be toggled on-the-fly.

Doesn't it also come with 02 eliminators at the same price as a PCIII without?

How can you do autotune without the 02 sensors?? Or do you eliminate the stock ones and use theirs?

[coderighter]

Forgive my ignorance, but what exactly will the PCV provide that the PCIII does not?

The PCV gives you all PCIII features plus-

1. Autotune option.

2. Mapping by gear, which is needed to do a proper map on '06-'09 because they have factory "map-by-gear". On any model, you don't have to run cruise settings in 1st, 2nd and/or 3rd making those gears much smoother.

3. Enrichment by temp, could use this on warm-up or add more fuel when running hot to help cool things down.

4. Operate Dynojet Quick shifter

5. For those of you thinking blower, there's a input for a pressure switch (0-5 volts) so that you can add fuel based on boost pressure.

6. You can load 2 maps (if not using Autotune) that can be toggled on-the-fly.

Doesn't it also come with 02 eliminators at the same price as a PCIII without?

How can you do autotune without the 02 sensors?? Or do you eliminate the stock ones and use theirs?

You eliminate the stock ones and use theirs.

[sa1713]

So, the PCV is only useful for 00-Current model years. No worky with the 98-99 years?

[JES_VFR]

Hmm, so you have to have the 00-01 header though so you have the 02 sensors though, right?? Or if you have a 98-99 header, you can just weld in the bungs?

Since the sensors are pre-cat, I would say that you probably don't need the 00-01 header. Bungs in the header should do just fine.

The autotune is going to need them to mount its own 02 sensor for feedback on its adjustments.

At least that is my thinking, that is the only difference that matters here.

Forgive my ignorance, but what exactly will the PCV provide that the PCIII does not?

The PCV gives you all PCIII features plus-

1. Autotune option.

2. Mapping by gear, which is needed to do a proper map on '06-'09 because they have factory "map-by-gear". On any model, you don't have to run cruise settings in 1st, 2nd and/or 3rd making those gears much smoother.

3. Enrichment by temp, could use this on warm-up or add more fuel when running hot to help cool things down.

4. Operate Dynojet Quick shifter

5. For those of you thinking blower, there's a input for a pressure switch (0-5 volts) so that you can add fuel based on boost pressure.

6. You can load 2 maps (if not using Autotune) that can be toggled on-the-fly.

Of those six features

Only #4 is of no value on this project.

The biggest one is #6.

Now, the PCIII can do #5 and #6, but only if you buy the multi-function hub, Map switch harness, boost input harness and lcd display.

It's also not clear how it can do #2 even with using adding in the addition gear position harness.

these modules more than double the cost of the pcIII (approx $500 more) versus the pcV.

I still need to check on whether or not I need the ignition module with the pcV, but that is not a crushing add on, if it is still needed.

[Ryanme17]

How can you do autotune without the 02 sensors?? Or do you eliminate the stock ones and use theirs?

Right. You only use the 02 eliminators if you aren't running autotune. If you are, you have to use their 02 sensor. Out of curiosity, is it a wideband sensor, or just a more accurate one than the stock sensors?

[coderighter]

How can you do autotune without the 02 sensors?? Or do you eliminate the stock ones and use theirs?

Right. You only use the 02 eliminators if you aren't running autotune. If you are, you have to use their 02 sensor. Out of curiosity, is it a wideband sensor, or just a more accurate one than the stock sensors?

So here's the deal.

The bike operates in a open loop, following a predetermined (and lean) map. If the engine temp is above 160, RPMS are between 3.5K-5K, the throttle is held steady with openings greater than 5% and less than 40%, the bike will go close loop and try adjust the mixture. The map is set up to be rich in these areas so if there's a failure the bike will not be harmed by a over lean mixture. The signal from the oxygen sensor will to lean the mixture in order to achieve better fuel mileage and lower emissions. If the throttle is moved off of "steady", out of the 5%-%40 "window", the engine speed leaves the 3.5K-5K "cruise window", or temp goes below 160 (yah right), control will go back to the map. At times, the difference between closed-loop and open-loop can be fairly large and the "in and out" can be felt when you make small changes in the throttle. Variances in injectors, fuel pressure regulators, O2 sensors, and even the weather and altitude can make this vary from "not noticable" to "I'm trading this POS in".

A O2 sensor compares the oxygen content in the exhaust to the oxygen content on the outside of the sensor, which is handy because, in threoy, it should compensate for altitude. When the air/fuel mixture is rich and there is little O2 in the exhaust, the difference in oxygen levels across the sensing element generates a voltage through the sensor's platinum electrodes: typically 0.8 to 0.9 volts. When the air/fuel mixture is lean and there is more oxygen in the exhaust, the sensor's voltage drops to 0.1 to 0.3 volts. When the air/fuel mixture is perfectly balanced and combustion is cleanest, the sensor's output voltage is around 0.45 volts.

When you remove the sensor, the voltage output to the ECU is 0 volts. When the ECU sees zero volts, it believes that the mixture is already as lean as possible, so it takes no action to move it from its rich starting point as set by the map. Removing the sensor doesn't stop the closed loop from happening, it just convinces the ECU that the bike is already too lean and no changes are made.

The O2 sensor has 4 wires, 2 are the sensor output and the other 2 are for the heater. The O2 sensor doesn't operate correctly until it gets hot, so in order to speed things up, they have a heater. The ECU monitors the current going through the heater to make sure that it's operating properly. If the heater burns out or somehow becomes a open circuit (unplugged), the current will stop flowing and the ECU will trip the "FI" light. The 330ohm resistor is actually put in place of the 2 heater wires to make the ECU think the sensor is still connected and operating properly.

The Power Commander "alters" the stock map but once you get the in "close loop window" the ECU will use the O2 sensors to re-adjust your altered map. In most cases, this will not work very well, but it won't hurt anything. It some cases, especially on a stock bike, it might be handy. Using the sensors will get you the best fuel mileage with no real change in performance because they only come into play during "cruise". However, depending on your bike and tolerance for the "on-off" of closed loop, you might want sacrifice some fuel for smoother operation.

Bottom line, hook up the sensors and go for a couple rides. If you like it, leave them and pocket the fuel saves plus there's the warm fuzzy you'll get for helping end global warming. blink.gif If you don't like how it runs, replace them with the eliminators. No harm, no foul.

Removing O2 sensors without Power Commander just makes the bike run in the rich, fail safe cruise.

If are using the Autotune, you must remove the stock O2 sensors and install the wideband sensor. Because you've removed the stock sensors you must install the O2 eliminators in to prevent the ECU from throwing a code and turning on the "FI" light.

[coderighter]

Hmm, so you have to have the 00-01 header though so you have the 02 sensors though, right?? Or if you have a 98-99 header, you can just weld in the bungs?

Since the sensors are pre-cat, I would say that you probably don't need the 00-01 header. Bungs in the header should do just fine.

The autotune is going to need them to mount its own 02 sensor for feedback on its adjustments.

At least that is my thinking, that is the only difference that matters here.

Forgive my ignorance, but what exactly will the PCV provide that the PCIII does not?

The PCV gives you all PCIII features plus-

1. Autotune option.

2. Mapping by gear, which is needed to do a proper map on '06-'09 because they have factory "map-by-gear". On any model, you don't have to run cruise settings in 1st, 2nd and/or 3rd making those gears much smoother.

3. Enrichment by temp, could use this on warm-up or add more fuel when running hot to help cool things down.

4. Operate Dynojet Quick shifter

5. For those of you thinking blower, there's a input for a pressure switch (0-5 volts) so that you can add fuel based on boost pressure.

6. You can load 2 maps (if not using Autotune) that can be toggled on-the-fly.

Of those six features

Only #4 is of no value on this project.

The biggest one is #6.

Now, the PCIII can do #5 and #6, but only if you buy the multi-function hub, Map switch harness, boost input harness and lcd display.

It's also not clear how it can do #2 even with using adding in the addition gear position harness.

these modules more than double the cost of the pcIII (approx $500 more) versus the pcV.

I still need to check on whether or not I need the ignition module with the pcV, but that is not a crushing add on, if it is still needed.

Nothing else is needed to do by gear mapping. The PCV firgures the gear your in by comparing bike speed to engine RPM. You simply have to run one wire to tap into the VSS sensor and calibrate which is very easy to do.

Map by gear is a great feature because you don't have to run those "cruise" mixtures in the lower gears. How I can quietly sneak through the neighborhood 30mph in third gear, around 3000-3200 rpm, smooth as butter. Before, anything under 4000 rpm was full of surging and snatching.

[JES_VFR]

Hmm, so you have to have the 00-01 header though so you have the 02 sensors though, right?? Or if you have a 98-99 header, you can just weld in the bungs?

Since the sensors are pre-cat, I would say that you probably don't need the 00-01 header. Bungs in the header should do just fine.

The autotune is going to need them to mount its own 02 sensor for feedback on its adjustments.

At least that is my thinking, that is the only difference that matters here.

Forgive my ignorance, but what exactly will the PCV provide that the PCIII does not?

The PCV gives you all PCIII features plus-

1. Autotune option.

2. Mapping by gear, which is needed to do a proper map on '06-'09 because they have factory "map-by-gear". On any model, you don't have to run cruise settings in 1st, 2nd and/or 3rd making those gears much smoother.

3. Enrichment by temp, could use this on warm-up or add more fuel when running hot to help cool things down.

4. Operate Dynojet Quick shifter

5. For those of you thinking blower, there's a input for a pressure switch (0-5 volts) so that you can add fuel based on boost pressure.

6. You can load 2 maps (if not using Autotune) that can be toggled on-the-fly.

Of those six features

Only #4 is of no value on this project.

The biggest one is #6.

Now, the PCIII can do #5 and #6, but only if you buy the multi-function hub, Map switch harness, boost input harness and lcd display.

It's also not clear how it can do #2 even with using adding in the addition gear position harness.

these modules more than double the cost of the pcIII (approx $500 more) versus the pcV.

I still need to check on whether or not I need the ignition module with the pcV, but that is not a crushing add on, if it is still needed.

Nothing else is needed to do by gear mapping. The PCV firgures the gear your in by comparing bike speed to engine RPM. You simply have to run one wire to tap into the VSS sensor and calibrate which is very easy to do.

Map by gear is a great feature because you don't have to run those "cruise" mixtures in the lower gears. How I can quietly sneak through the neighborhood 30mph in third gear, around 3000-3200 rpm, smooth as butter. Before, anything under 4000 rpm was full of surging and snatching.

I meant that I did not know how the pcIII could to gear by gear tuning when they claimed it did not have enough memory???

I saw there is some input that the PCV needs to sense what gear your in, but that was all.

I wonder how much control you have over how lean the autotune will go, even with the wide band as this blend of fuel will need something a good bump higher than 14.7:1!

[coderighter]

Hummmm.... I've never had a memory problem. Where do they claim there's not enough memory? Maybe I'm missing something? I did have a problem with the temp input but the new 1.3.0 firmware back in June corrected that.

[JES_VFR]

Hummmm.... I've never had a memory problem. Where do they claim there's not enough memory? Maybe I'm missing something? I did have a problem with the temp input but the new 1.3.0 firmware back in June corrected that.

That was one I was told a couple of years ago buy a dynojet tech, when he was talking me up about the next generation of PC (which sounded exactly like the PCV).

Unfortunately that was right when the new owners were taking over and they were no better than the old owners.

We had no stock,

We had no way to get more,

We were still running on order everything for the customer.

Even though we had plenty of requests to become a Dynojet direct reseller, the new owner (a previously successful HD store owner) said no.

He had no clue how to run a big four Metric bike shop.

[sa1713]

John,

Any update on the use of the PC V over the PC III for the 5th gens? I'm super interested in this now as I may need to install one as I have an anticipated HUGE mod coming to me in the next year. The auto tune would be super splendid.

I spoke to the wonderful folks at DJ today and their tech said that the connectors are different from the V to the III. Do you have any other details?

Jim

[Avid One]

I'm really interested in trying the V with my 5th in the Autotune mode, so if anyone knows how to make this work, chime in!

[enzed_viffer]

So here's the deal....

That's a fantastic summary of things, coderighter. :fing02:

That should be made a 'sticky'.

Well done, Sir!

[coderighter]

John,

Any update on the use of the PC V over the PC III for the 5th gens? I'm super interested in this now as I may need to install one as I have an anticipated HUGE mod coming to me in the next year. The auto tune would be super splendid.

I spoke to the wonderful folks at DJ today and their tech said that the connectors are different from the V to the III. Do you have any other details?

Jim

Poppy-cock.

I love Dynojet, they make very cool products but their tech support is crap. You'd been better off calling my 99 year old grandmother in North Dakota for info on Dynojet. Several times I've gotten bad info from their tech support. You have to understand how their products work and figure it out for yourself. I just did that for you.

The PCIII and PCV work in the same manner for most bikes made. Ingenious really, they can use the same box for almost every bike, just change the connectors.

Here's how it works. They take in throttle position sensor signal and compute the engine RPM from the injector pulses. It uses this info to call up the approprite maps cells and alter the mixture by changing the length of the fuel injection pulses according to the value in the cell. That's it, no magic. So what the Power Commander (PCIII or PCV) needs to work is throttle position sensor signal and ability to intercept the injector signal (and power). It turns out that on the VFR, it's all in one connector (well except the power). The connector is known as the throttle body connector. Luckly, Honda used the same connector on VFR from '98-'09, wire for wire, at least according to the Honda service manuals and Dynojets own install instructions. See images below.

'98 connector from Dynojet PCIII install manual

Connector in '06 Dynojet PCIII install manual.

PCV '09 VFR manual connector

'98 connector wiring from service manual

vtec connector wiring from service manual