SLO97VFR Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 I have a spare set of forks that had LE stickers on them bought from EBAY. I needed to change my fork oil (ATF found in it) anyways. I disassemble the LE spare forks and found that they were not progressive but a larger coil and Shorter. The Longer Spring are the ones I took out of my shocks (looks progressive) stock? The shorter ones with spacers are the ones that had the LE stickers on the tubes. Sorry for the out of focus pic... Questions: Are the stock spring progressive like this one? Should I go ahead and try the shorter springs? What weight oil recommended If I do use the shorter springs? Anyway to tell spring rates? Next I have to try to find if someone has shown how to change the fork seals. I was playing with the Bad shocks but I could not get the bottom allen bolt out of the cartridge. Thanks for any help / suggestions . Brian le springs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Call these guys tomorrow and see what they say about the springs they sold for the VFR http://www.le-suspension.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLO97VFR Posted February 21, 2007 Author Share Posted February 21, 2007 Call these guys tomorrow and see what they say about the springs they sold for the VFRLindeman Engineering Thanks. Do you have their telephone number ? Can you call for me ? :joystick: :warranty: And if thats a link, it no work ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer fallzboater Posted February 21, 2007 Member Contributer Share Posted February 21, 2007 I have a spare set of forks that had LE stickers on them bought from EBAY. I needed to change my fork oil (ATF found in it) anyways. I disassemble the LE spare forks and found that they were not progressive but a larger coil and Shorter. The Longer Spring are the ones I took out of my shocks (looks progressive) stock? The shorter ones with spacers are the ones that had the LE stickers on the tubes. Sorry for the out of focus pic...Questions: Are the stock spring progressive like this one? Should I go ahead and try the shorter springs? What weight oil recommended If I do use the shorter springs? Anyway to tell spring rates? The stock springs are progressive, the shorter ones are not. Yes, you should try them. The stock springs are much too soft for anyone. The others will be closer, even if not optimal. Try going up in oil viscosity by 2.5 or 5 over stock. LE may use Race Tech springs. See if you can find markings on them. Try calling LE or Race Tech and see if they'll help you identify the springs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baileyrock Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 If your lucky they replaced or re-valved the stock valving too! :thumbsup: I would have just slapped the new forks in and see how they felt! Wire dia. can also be used sometimes to determine spring rate. If you have a digital mic you can compare to stock, which are rated at .740 kg or 41.51 lbs., most ofter a .90 kg spring or stiffer is needed if you weigh anything over 170-180. ps see HS's how to on fork rebuilds :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer vfrjim2002 Posted February 21, 2007 Member Contributer Share Posted February 21, 2007 Take a close look at the springs in the LE forks. If they're RaceTechs (they do look like RTs) they may have the spring rate stamped (in indelible ink) on the spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Brian,....i can go home real quick and look at them if you want..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLO97VFR Posted February 21, 2007 Author Share Posted February 21, 2007 Thanks guys for the replies. The R/T springs came in some bent fork tubes to had to R/R. I will look closer at the springs for markings. If the cartridge was revalved I will have to get the stripped allen bolt out of the bottom first to pull them and see if there is a difference. Thanks :thumbsup: Tori, it wont matter but if your home for lunch and want to take a look .......... go right ahead and let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted February 21, 2007 Member Contributer Share Posted February 21, 2007 Stock 4th gen springs look like the bottom ones, the ones above it are Wilbers aftermarket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer thx1139 Posted February 21, 2007 Member Contributer Share Posted February 21, 2007 I will look closer at the springs for markings. If the cartridge was revalved I will have to get the stripped allen bolt out of the bottom first to pull them and see if there is a difference. For removing those cartridge allen bolts, I've had success using a 3/8ths butterfly impact wrench with a 2" section of cut-off allen and a matching size socket. Sometimes you can pull up on the cartridge rod to stop the cart from spinning. I always undo that lower bolt first, before removing the fork caps and springs. Once they start to spin it's a real PITA. Count me among the curious as to the valving in those LE carts. I've seen the Traxxion setup... wanna trade recipies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Brian,..... no paint markings, but it looks like they have a " 1 " stamped into the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLO97VFR Posted February 23, 2007 Author Share Posted February 23, 2007 Ok so tonight Tori and I got the cartridges out of the bent LE forks - drilled one bolt (stripped it) then for bolt #2 got out a few adapters, 6mm allen, cut off wheel, and a 1/2 inch impact and #2 bolt came out just fine. LE wrote me back and stated the spring maybe stamped/marked. The only thing we found is at the end of the spring looks like a 1. He also said if the nut on the end of the dampener valve was ground down then he did modify the valves. I was in luck as it was ground down (We assume this is to improve flow). So we swapped everything, springs/valves, into my stock fork tubes. Now I have read several different levels of oil. I used Honda Pro extreme oil 5wt habut manual states 177 mm below tube, I read elsewhere 120 and even 150 ? So what have you guys done with you 4th Gen? I wanted to get 1 fork together so we bleed the system as I have read and filled to 150mm below the top (with fork tube compressed and no spring in tube). This took about 440 cc of oil. I have to do the other fork still and can add or take out as I need. So if anyone has any firm level measurements this would be a good time to speak up...Thanks for the help and I will take pics of the internals and post up soon. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer thx1139 Posted February 23, 2007 Member Contributer Share Posted February 23, 2007 He also said if the nut on the end of the dampener valve was ground down then he did modify the valves. I was in luck as it was ground down (We assume this is to improve flow).The nut that holds the rebound valve on the rod is staked at the factory to prevent it from coming loose. Evidence of grinding just shows the staking had been removed so the rebound valve could be dis-assembled and modified; probably with an altered shim stack. (use a little loctite on that nut when re-assembling.)Another place you might see grinding is on the shim-surface of the compression valve. genIV VFRs (my '96 anyway) have 3 tiny notches on the valve under the shims. This provides the low-speed compression bleed. Many tuners surface that side of the valve to remove the notches, and then drill a calibrated hole in the valve (#53 to #58 drill size) to affect a new bleed rate. When swapping in F3 adjustable rebound cartridges, either the F3 rebound valves can be used, or the VFR rebound valves should be first modified by likewise grinding off their bleed notches. A preferred method is to sand the valve against some emery cloth placed flat on a piece of glass. (I like to finish them with a honing stone to be sure they are perfectly flat.) I'd suspect a "1" on the springs refers to 1.0kg/mm rate, which is appropriate for a 200lb rider on a VFR. 5 wt oil seems a little thin. Is that what LE recommends? Honda advises Showa SS-8 on their most recent 41mm cartridge forks, which translates roughly to a 10wt oil. Oil viscosity primarily affects the low speed damping and is particularly important on non-adjustable forks with fixed bleeds; like the VFR. Oil height provides a progressive air spring effect toward the end of the fork travel. If you are bottoming the fork over large bumps or heavy braking, the course of action would be raising the level. I revalved and rebuilt my genIV forks with .90 springs and "10wt" oil with about a 145mm air gap IIRC. I'd like to try raising the level to 125-130mm, as I think the fork could be a little firmer on the brakes. Thanks for the help and I will take pics of the internals and post up soon. Brian measure those shims by any chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLO97VFR Posted February 23, 2007 Author Share Posted February 23, 2007 He also said if the nut on the end of the dampener valve was ground down then he did modify the valves. I was in luck as it was ground down (We assume this is to improve flow).The nut that holds the rebound valve on the rod is staked at the factory to prevent it from coming loose. Evidence of grinding just shows the staking had been removed so the rebound valve could be dis-assembled and modified; probably with an altered shim stack. (use a little loctite on that nut when re-assembling.)Another place you might see grinding is on the shim-surface of the compression valve. genIV VFRs (my '96 anyway) have 3 tiny notches on the valve under the shims. This provides the low-speed compression bleed. Many tuners surface that side of the valve to remove the notches, and then drill a calibrated hole in the valve (#53 to #58 drill size) to affect a new bleed rate. When swapping in F3 adjustable rebound cartridges, either the F3 rebound valves can be used, or the VFR rebound valves should be first modified by likewise grinding off their bleed notches. A preferred method is to sand the valve against some emery cloth placed flat on a piece of glass. (I like to finish them with a honing stone to be sure they are perfectly flat.) I'd suspect a "1" on the springs refers to 1.0kg/mm rate, which is appropriate for a 200lb rider on a VFR. 5 wt oil seems a little thin. Is that what LE recommends? Honda advises Showa SS-8 on their most recent 41mm cartridge forks, which translates roughly to a 10wt oil. Oil viscosity primarily affects the low speed damping and is particularly important on non-adjustable forks with fixed bleeds; like the VFR. Oil height provides a progressive air spring effect toward the end of the fork travel. If you are bottoming the fork over large bumps or heavy braking, the course of action would be raising the level. I revalved and rebuilt my genIV forks with .90 springs and "10wt" oil with about a 145mm air gap IIRC. I'd like to try raising the level to 125-130mm, as I think the fork could be a little firmer on the brakes. Thanks for the help and I will take pics of the internals and post up soon. Brianmeasure those shims by any chance? Well I guess I will run with the 150 mark and see what happens. My current weight is 185 lbs so Ill see how the 5wt oil reacts. I have drains at the bottom of my forks so I can always drain most of it out and change if needed. When I do the other fork tomorrow Ill measure out the shims for you best I can and post some pics. Thanks Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted February 26, 2007 Member Contributer Share Posted February 26, 2007 So what have you guys done with you 4th Gen? 10wt oil, 170mm air pocket with the Wilbers aftermarket. w/o gear I weigh 90ks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer thx1139 Posted February 27, 2007 Member Contributer Share Posted February 27, 2007 So what have you guys done with you 4th Gen? rebound adjustable cartridges .90 Eibach fork springs. re-shimmed VFR valves. (Showa 3-port, not HMAS) ISO 36 weight oil, equivalent to Honda-Showa 10wt 145mm oil height Observations thus far: I think the stock VFR compression valves have too much low speed bleed. I'm going to try a single #58 size bleed hole next. Oil height might still be a little low, seems like I'm using a lot of the travel on the brakes with the .90 springs. Maybe my riding just sucks. I weigh 175 w/o gear. Ride quality is comfy on Bridgestone BT010s; Haven't tried a sport-touring tire but might be harsh with this setup. Feedback is kind of numb; again, not enough low-speed compression/ too much bleed. I have a good idea where I need to go now to dial the forks in perfect. But as it is they're so improved I have to fix the shock next. Like Baileyrock experienced, with only the fork stiffened the bike feels a little 'wollowy' in turns once leaned over. I can feel the shock spring is too soft now after the fork upgrade; feels like there's a big hinge in the middle of the bike. (which of course, there is.) Need to get a stronger coil. After mucking around with my pre-loads the sag is probably all over the place too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer thx1139 Posted March 4, 2007 Member Contributer Share Posted March 4, 2007 When I do the other fork tomorrow Ill measure out the shims for you best I can and post some pics. Thanks Brian Ever get those numbers and pics? Enquiring (and bored) minds want to know... :goofy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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