JES_VFR

Well I thought the integrated switch was nice, but I like a dial your heat thermostatic control. Also add in that I like the added thickness that my hot grips have. It really helps with my screwed up hands. If I went with the Honda heated grips I'd have to get some sort of over-grip for general comfort. Maybe if they made them for say the Stateline or something with a fatter grip, then I could install them instead. Its pretty bad when you actually look for a fat grip so that you can keep you hand more open while riding.

Your welds look fine, if they are bothering you that much you could always hit em with a flap wheel to clean them up a bit. as for removing the restrictions, nice job, who ever put those together did not even make a real attempt at matching holes. I've jigged up a couple of really weird merged connections (for a turbo kit) and an x-pipe or two for cars. The guy who does my welding is always telling me I should just learn how to weld and finish the job myself. I would not have left that much of a mess behind. I would have had a small lip left because I'd be leaving enough metal for Ceasar to weld, but we talking 1/8 to a 1/4 inch tops, not that. Poor quality control like that makes me want to do something crazy like apprentice with Ceasar and then start bending my own stuff.

Well I would think that we could trim it back so it would fit. Not unlike having to trim back the center of the dust boot to fit an aftermarket shifter on a mustang. Anyway the dust boot would be the least of my worries.

I saw that picture and thought that you had painted the bright silver accent and mirrors. I really like that darker metal look in that lighting. can't wait to see the tinted aftermarket screens come out for the 7th gen. Nice work HS. I'd gladly take the heat 'troller off your hands to replace the broken warm and safe on my RC51. I agree it looks industrial at times, but the one from hot grips on my vfr has held up way better than the warm and safe controller. I partially blame myself for the pot and led board getting damaged, but W&S could have given us option of a small case to support the mount better. Not sure what I'll go with when I get my 7th gen, but I know I want more adjust-ability than the Honda control offers. What is so darn hard about designing a PWM heat control? Do you have any concern about hitting the "flasher" button when reaching for that heat controller button? Still, your farkles just make me like the bike even more.

Tight, If I was local, I'd be over there already. I'll take a set if you can do it for $30 more.

Stupid question for you T. You keep saying that the 5th gen's have a different bulb, but you state that the 6th gen uses H4's in the low beams. . I have H4's in my 5th gen and have for years. Not the Honda mutated H4's, but regular H4's. Never did more than snip the bottom tabs off before. If I was doing an H4 hid conversion I would cut the correct tab slots into the back of my headlight assembly rather than remove the tabs on the bulbs. But then it would pretty much have to be the bi-xenon bulbs. Oh and as for the flash to pass switch on my left pod, It powers the high beams without cutting power to the low beams. So as long as a 5th gen owner used a bi-xenon bulb, they would still be able to retain the quick flash. How much for a bi-xenon kit for H4 bulb's in 4500 color? I know its going to be more than the 135 for the low beam only kits.

But the 5th gen takes a pair of H4's and just uses both the high and low filaments. If you have the HID bulbs that move the bulb capsule to retain the high and low beam functionality then it should work a treat. In fact I'd be in for the kit and a VFRness in a flash. I'm currently running standard car H4's with snipped tabs, and would love to get more light from less watts. If the bulb moves for the high beam I can probably keep the flash to pass switch I added, which would be all sorts of cool. To use this as a power savings, we went with the 35W bulbs. 3 times more light than the halogen bulbs should be sufficient....right? We also opted for the 5000K color, but any color would be available given a bit more lead time. Well the 5000k would get me slammed by the local LEOS, the state-ies and bounced come inspection time. 4300k is okay as it is just to the yellow side of white, which the state DOT has to accept. This kit with the dual beam (bi-xenon) bulbs and LED's in all the other 'external' lights would pretty much free up enough watts for me to go with just about any size HHO Cell from the company. Oh yeah, work out the dual beam part and I'm definitely getting it.

but wait a minute all you guys that are saying you need to tweak the delkevic's have vtec bikes. Honda lists a totally different header for the vtec bikes compared to the 98-01 bikes. Delkevic doesn't even list the header for the Vtec, they only list it for the 98-01 bikes.

Well I spoke with an engineer for a local coatings company. He's done a lot of work on his FJR with various versions of the coatings. I'm meeting up with him Tuesday to rid his FJR and see for myself how it goes.

Thanks, I did a search, but the engine did not find this. I thought the front running/turn signals on the 5th gen where something small like a 194 or something, I did not realize they were that big. How different are the 7443's to a 3157??

Thanks, I did a search, but the engine did not find this. I thought the front running/turn signals on the 5th gen where something small like a 194 or something, I did not realize they were that big.

Real easy, what type of bulbs are in the Instrument Panel, license plate light and in the front turn signals on a 5th gen VFR? I'm trying to order the LED bulbs for everything on my VFR, my RC51 and my Wife's car, but I'm not near the bikes. I know the brake/tails are 3157's and the rear turns are 3156's, but I can't find the bulb types for the panel lights, license plate light or the front turns in the shop manual. Can anyone here tell me what they are so I can get this order placed today. Also what relay did you guys use for the turn signals? thanks

I've tried them and they work. I just found the bigger grip was more important for comfort than the soft. At one point in time I slipped a hard rubber sleeve over the grips on the rc51 (before I installed the hot grips). They are even harder than the hot grips, but the larger than average diameter was much more comfortable. My beaten up hands, work better if I don't have to crunch them down so much. I do better with a big old fat bat handle than, one of those new skinny neck softball ones.

You mean 7th gen. But I would do the grips now for two reasons. 1. you'll get used to their feel now while its no big deal to change them out again. 2. the epoxy will set much better in warmer weather.

I found the larger diameter of the much firmer hot grips worked best for me. I have fairly large hands and have had a few surgeries on them (the last was Carpal Tunnel relief back in 2001). I don't do well on the smaller diameter gel grips, where as the larger ones work great.

Well, I think your right about the lean points and what it takes to really fix the tune. I've still got to install autotune on my bike.

I'd look into the new oxford heated grips, they are supposed to be about the same thickness as a normal sport grip. try TT - oxford heated sport grips here.

So would most of us here,... Still I like the new VFR1200F and wouldn't toss one out of the garage. But that thing looks like they beat it with the ugly stick, set it on fire and then spray painted the results. I wonder how much of all the new wiz bag gadgetry is on the bike an how much is programming in the PCM???? I bet within one year of the "T"'s debut there were be a ton of parts bin swapping to make custom vfr1200's that are mix of F and T models. Paging Veefer800Canuck....

- Just a stab at it - probably your keeping more heat internal to the engine causing it to run hotter - I dont think I would wanna do that. I'm sure engine engineers plan for some radiant heat to keep the thing alive. ---Sounds like a discussion to have over a few brews....... :beer: I did do the heat wrap on the the headers. I wont say if it added power or not, mostly it was to try to lessen heat to keep off the expensive Penske shock. I'm sure I'm radiating less header heat on the front side too. - I'm liking my little experiment. In the past I did the heat wrap thing and ended up with heat accelerated rot in the headers. and since my header already looks like crap, I'm not about to push it. But I think I have a line on tbr header which in a better stainless steel and I know that I'm going to get it ceramic coated before I install it. Plus since there is no cat, can have the insides done as well. I was just thinking that if the covers and out side of the block was ceramic coated the heat would stay in the coolant. I figured that I might need a larger oil cooler (or maybe not since it won't be sitting in the heat soak central just above the front header pipes. I mean the back and forth that Codewriter and I keep having is whether the heat soak area created by the heat radiated from the block affects the ability of the cooling fan to be effective when it pushes the heated are from the hot soak area across the radiator. I say that it effects the cooling of radiator only for a moment when the fan starts up, and secondly that it is still heat that is being removed from the system. I mean think about it on a car we put the ac coil out in front of the radiator and let it heat the air before it get to the radiator, but that doesn't make the rad fail. I think there is always enough delta T between the incoming air and the coolant in the rad that it can and will work. You have much bigger problems than engine cooling if the incoming air is hot enough to prevent the radiator from cooling, Like maybe you are on fire. Will keeping the heat in the coolant raise its temperature, I'm not so sure.. The thermostat will still open at the same temp (just sooner). The rads will see warm coolant more, but I don't think it will be all that much hotter. I do think that it will make the fan run significantly more as the coolant is going to get to 220 (or 223 or whatever temp the oem switch actually closes at) much more often. But I look at it this way. Combusting the gasoline makes X btu's of heat and Y btu of it go into the coolant in the block, now if we stop the block from radiating it away on the outside and send it through to the radiators, did we change how much heat we are 'venting', no we just changed how we do it. I'm actually going to talk to a guy that is an engineer for a ceramic coatings company, next week. I was just putting it up here first to see what our group here thought.

All the discussions about fans, fans switches, fan cutoff modules and ceramic coating headers, got me thinking. What would happen to all the cooling issues on our VFRs (and other bikes), if a person had their engine cases, covers, heads and exhaust coated with ceramic coatings for the maximum heat barrier properties. That means inside and out for most of the bits. That would mean that each part absorbs less heat, so it can radiate less heat to the atmosphere. Now that would mean more heat goes into the coolant, as more heat goes out the tailpipe, but it also means a slight increase in combustion efficiency. Would we be able to tune with PC's to take advantage of this small increase, I don't know (Codewriter and company, jump in on this one). Would the cooling system be able to handle it, Probably since the coatings would only be changing the way we try to radiate the heat to the atmosphere, not generating more or eliminating it . Well, what do you people think?

Strange, sitting at a long light, if the bike gets to 220, the fan kicks on. The temps immediately start to drop. With in a minute or two the temp hits 210 the fan turns off. I never have a problem stopped. The highest temp I've ever seen stopped is 221 and that was a 100+ degree day in eastern Washington. I'm not sure why you had such a issue with yours. The only time I have problem is if the light turn green while the fan is still running. I've never experienced the hideous heat vortex of which you speak. However bear in mind if the fan not running, the R/R could be dumping more current, making the frame hotter. It sounds like your fan runs alot more than mine. By turning fan into a pusher, you lower the efficiency of the fan by 20%, even with the correct fan blades. http://www.perma-cool.com/Catalog/Cat_page16.html Not only are you pushing hot air across the radiator, you're also pushing about 20% less CFM. I know that a pusher fan is less efficient than a tractor fan, unless is it's total surface is larger than the total surface of the radiator its has a complete shrouding duct. But the simple facts are these. when I had the stock fan blade and I came to a stop on a day like today (the high at 12:45 was 90f out in the open, the heat in traffic was 96f on the cars outside thermometer, and with 55% humidity the heat index was 112.). Temp would rise to 224 and the fan would kick on, and in 2 or 3 minutes it would have cooled down to 213-214 and the fan would shut off. As soon as the temperature would shut off the temp would start climbing again and in two minutes or so would be right back to 224. The fan would kick on for 5 or 6 minutes this time before it could get the temp down to 213-214 and cycle off. In about a minute (maybe minute and half) the temp would be back to 223 and fan would again come on. From here on the fan would run continuously (with the temp never really coming down), until either I got the bike moving at 30+ mph and clear of the traffic -or- it when past 238, at which point I'd shut off the damn thing, paddle foot it to the side of the road and wait for it to cool off (usually just in time to see the traffic jam start to move). But since I put the VTR fan on the bike, I never have this problem. Coolant temp gets to 223, fan kicks on. temp starts to drop. A couple of minutes go by temp drips to 213, fan kicks off. Minutes go by and temp creeps back up to 223, fan kicks on again, temp drops to 213 in a few minutes and fan cycles off. This cycle will repeat for at least half an hour without the temp climbing above 223 or the fan reaching a state where it can't cool enough to cycle on/off. The on cycles don't appreciatively longer unless the ambient temp also rising (like when you are sitting in that concrete canyon called Vine st in Philly in the noon day sun, where the outside temperature climbs as you watch!) so I'd say that in practice the superhawk fan is much more effective than the stock fan ever was. Tractor vs pusher fan, drawing air through the bike or not, It just plain works a world better in that concrete oven than the oem fan ever did. I've seen lots of post describing the same behavior from lots of people on the other VFR Lists so I know it is not just me and my VFR. In fact one of the big disappointments was that Honda supposedly fixed the heating issues with the Vtec editions, yet all through the summer's of 2002 and 2003 there were people complaining about their near meltdowns in high heat and traffic. I'm sorry Jon, but to me these people that have had issues and those that are just concerned with it now can't all be sniffing vapors, there is a problem with the fan when the bike is standing still. I don't care if you fill your system with "Pink" or 'limeade", that oem fan is not going to keep the bike down to reasonable temperatures for long when you meet the right conditions. Now I'm not saying that the superhawk fan blade is the ultimate solution to having the VFR keep it's cool. I'm just saying that it does a damn sight better than the crap design from Honda. That it is Honda part (so its not some unobtainium part from some rocket manufacturer). Its simple to try and in the end very cost effective. I haven't heard of anyone saying that it did not work better than the stock fan. I had the same problem with my RC51, cooking off in the heat from the day I got it. God I wish the solution had been as easy as just swapping a couple of VTR fan blades. In the end, I flipped the stock fan blades over with a little work and reversed the motors, all to try and get close to an efficient pusher fan operation. Even with all the flaws (not a pusher fan blade design, not ducted, drawing air from around the motor and header, less efficient as a pusher over a tractor fan, etc..), again the fans work, the bike doesn't overheat anymore and flatten the battery. I know that when time and funds allow I'll be back to this with carbon fiber ducts, spal fans and some sort of variable fan control system. Come to think of it I'll probably be at the VFR first with these things or at least some other heat management measures. Honda did us a major dis-service with both these bikes as neither one has an excess of cooling "power" built into it. Both want to run hot as per external laws, but they certainly need some system improvements. Jon, I'd bet you that if you tried the superhawk fan, you would suddenly realize that you don't need the control module to switch off the fan when you get moving.

Try here ktm bearing and seals You may have to scroll down the list to find your model and year. Or you could order ktm bits from these guys, but if you call them they can probably sell you aftermarket seals. ktm part shop

To me this sounds like the most simple and effective way to handle the heat issue.. :fing02: One question though.. are you running the stock fan or the superhawk fan?? I've even thought about just leaving the stock fan alone and adding a Superhawk fan to the right side hooked to a switch so I can cool it as needed. If there's no space for the fan on the inside, I wouldn't mind trimming the fairing and mounting it on the outside if it works. I'm more concerned about function over form with this bike. IIRC Ian is running the stock fan. And his argument holds water. You don't want you fan to try to work against the natural flow, You want it to be there to substitute for the natural flow then the vehicle is stopped or not really moving. You'd have to hack that fairing up pretty bad to get enough room for a fan in there. Even if you hung the radiator out on spacers, there isn't going to be a lot room to fit any fan on either side. I keep thinking about adding some heat baffles to both sides. Just a piece of aluminum sheet with ceramic barrier paint on both sides installed between the block headers and the radiators, That would further cut down on the heating of the air going to the rads from inside the bike, but it would only work for someone using the pusher fan (superhawk fan blade). It also would probably mean a custom V fairing piece with quite a few more vents, out rear the lowers to get cool air away from the headers in the first place, Sort of poorman's rad ducting.

I disagree with your saying that the Stock fan works better than the VTR fan when the bike is standing still. Its does not. My fifth gen would just get warmer and warmer if it was sitting idling in the driveway too long with the stock fan. The fan might actually move enough heat around once or twice to cool the bike enough to cycle off, but it would only do it once or twice, then the fan would run continuously and the bike would just keep heating up. Now the VTR fan kicks in and cycles maybe 17-18 times in a half an hour, but the temp is never above the 223-224 that the fan kicks on at. Yes the fan pulls from in front of the bike and that means that it gets heat off the exhaust and engine before it gets to the rads, but with VTR fan the heat gets pushed out of the bike. A few seconds after the fan has kicked on the temp is coming down and the momentary blast of heat from the left side vent has lessened. The stock fan sucks cool air in through the rad and then dump this heated air the engine bay, the heat doesn't travel anywhere really and just warms the entire bike, in an escalating cycle until the display is flashing to get you attention of the impending overheating. To me that just proves that the Stock fan is a turd. Any you are right no fan that size is going to make a significant contribution to cooling if the bike is traveling faster than 30 mph. But the point is that the stock fan is a poor design even when the bike is stopped. Keeping heat in the bike is not effective cooling. I'd rather spend an extra 15-20 seconds moving preheated air out of the bike, than just continuing to pump the heat around the bike. The absolute best of both worlds would be the pusher vtr fan and ducting that keeps the header and block heated air entirely away from the radiators. But those ducts are a project full of time and money that I don't have right now, maybe someday when I find someone that will, like there are people that will make those ducts for the rc51's.