Grum

Hi Tom. Bit of info that you may not be aware of and could be related to some of your problems. These bikes (as well as my 2013 Mazda 3 car and 8gen vfr) do not like being started then stopped Before the engine gets warm. Rich fuel can remain in the cold cylinders for days. The next time you attempt to start the engine is now in an Over Rich flooded state extremely reluctant to Start. That is the reason for a Flooded Start procedure in the Owners Manual. Requires the throttle to Fully open while cranking, this shuts Off injectors and purges the engine of excess fuel, eventually the engine will cough and splutter into life. Bit of a heavy drain on the battery. So whenever starting the engine Always run it for a good few minutes to get the engine warm, no need for full hot! And Yes as mentioned. Any doubts about the age and health of the battery - Replace it always a good investment. Cheers.

Apologies if this thread has become a tad messy. It took time to get a grip on the actual fault symptoms. Here's some bottom line stuff. On occasions, bike doesn't Crank, Neutral Light dims, Starter Relay Click is heard with Every press of the Starter Switch. If this is the case in Both a Neutral start AND/OR Clutch In, Sidestand UP start, then........ - Low battery voltage. New battery has been fitted But battery voltage needs to be measured when Starter Switch pressed. - Fault is between Battery to Starter Motor. - Voltages and operation checks of Starter Relay needed, faulty/intermittent Starter Relay, or possible low coil voltage. - Voltage and continuity checks of Starter Motor power and ground cables. - Possible faulty Starter Motor.

Hi Kyle. What a bloody mess! You could have all sorts of damaged wires and connector issues. OK. So the obvious thought is your ECM is completely unpowered, this could be either Power Or Ground wise. The other issue is your Fi Light Not coming On, it should be On if the ECM is unpowered. Is the Instrument Panel or it's wiring damaged? The fact your bike cranks over, means your Main Fuse A 30amp power is good. Do you have a wiring diagram And the Service Manual? Downloadable from this site? Hopefully the attached drawing will help. With the status of your bike you're going to need to measure voltages and do continuity checks, just visually looking ain't good enough. So for starters look at what's going on with Main Fuse B 30amp power. This fuse feeds all your EFI stuff including the Fuel Pump. Follow these steps trust you have a multimeter......... Clip your meter black lead to the battery Negative and start probing voltages with the other lead. Measure 12v on both sides of Main Fuse B the fuse has tiny metal test points on the top of the fuse probe these. Next measure 12v at the 18p Blue connector probe both sides where the Red/White wire enters and exits the connector. Now up to the ESR Engine Stop Relay measure the 12v at the Relay Base, Red/White wire. Now with Ignition to On Kill Switch to Run make sure you measure 12v on the Black wire for the ESR coil. Note - This Black wire is Positive 12v from the Kill Switch. Does the ESR energise? If it does you should now have 12v on the all important Black/White wire at the ESR and at the FCR Fuel Cut Relay. Get back to us regarding these first few checks.

Mate, you're funny! I asked you to confirm or deny 4 Questions and you just say "Yes exactly", never mind.....and.... What shop?? Ok so if you're hearing the Starter Relay Click EVERY time, then you most likely have an issue with the Relay internals, or a faulty main cable to the starter motor, or starter motor fault. See attached photo and remove the Starter Relay cover. When the fault is active. Grab your voltmeter, Ignition to Off. With your black meter lead to battery Neg terminal, now probe the two Main Terminals (4 see pic) on the Starter Relay with the other meter lead. One terminal should measure 12v. Now turn Ignition to On, bike in Neutral. Now probe the other Starter Relay Main Terminal, press the Starter Button. Do you hear the Relay click AND Measure 12v.? Is the Starter Motor spinning? If you hear the Relay Click but Don't measure 12v. = Probable Starter Relay faulty/Intermittent. Another brutal Test is to simply use a couple of screwdrivers shorting the two main relay terminals. Do this with Ignition Off and Make sure you're in Neutral. The Starter Motor should spin over every time you make the short, if it does then you don't have a starter motor or main cable issue. You can download the Service Manual from this site if you don't already have it. It will show how to fully test the Starter Relay. By the way. What was the brand, type and part number of the new Battery you fitted? And it's Fully Charged? Bedtime for me. Let's know you get on. Nighty night!

Ok...at last, we getting there I think! So I think what you're saying is that there are problems with Both a Neutral Start AND a Sidestand UP Clutch pulled In Start. Is that Yes or No.? And you can hear the Starter Relay (not the starter button/switch) click when pressing the Starter Button every time? Yes, No or Sometimes? Do you have a basic understanding of electrics, have and know how to use a voltmeter? Let's get testing!

Now we're almost getting there BUT...... You see, I've mentioned the combination of Clutch In and Sidestand Up.!! Does this always operate the Starter when pressing the Start button? Very Important to know this. This is the alternate path for the Starter Relay to energize Rather than the Neutral gear path. So establishing which path is faulty will zoom in on the faulty area. Info - On an 8gen Neutral Indication and Starter Relay coil grounding is done very differently to previous VFR'S.

A youthful Giacomo Agostini - Lady killer!

Mate. Is there something wrong with my English? I seem to have this problem a lot! In trying to help you, I asked a couple of simple questions, important in diagnosing your issue and I don't get an answer! Thanks regarding your Battery Terminals, good to know they are fine! Again....Is your fault specfic to No Cranking OR Does it always Crank over but doesn't Start??? There's a Big difference between the two situations. Again.... If its a No Cranking Issue - Does attempting to Crank the bike in the Fault condition Change when Starting with the Clutch Pulled in and Sidestand UP? If your're saying there are NO Cranking issues AND only raising the Sidestand definetly cures the Fault and the engine starts, then this could relate to the ECM NOT seeing the Neutral Ground ( ECM Safety Interlock logic). Another important confirmation needed. You stated your problem was to do with "warm" starting, and now your saying the fault is there when "completely cold"? PLEASE be specific about these questions, without proper answers, we are on yet another wild goose chase!. Specific answers will put us on the path to fault finding............Hopefully!

Good news thanks for the feedback. Don't hear of the Frame Grounds going loose like that too often!

Make sure Battery Terminals are clean and tight. - When the fault is there. Does raising the Sidestand and pulling in the Clutch and press the Starter make any difference? Need to be clear On this..... Your saying when the fault is there you Press the Starter Button and the engine doesn't Crank?

I've calmed down a little.... So you're trying to tell me you purchased the bike Not Running from a forum member TDChip who was Well informed his ECM was blown caused by his incorrect FCR bypassing, and you knew nothing about it? He completely hid this info from you? You knew nothing about his forum posting and only discover it today? Hmmmm! Very very interesting....!!!!!

Hi Tom, welcome. Nice detailed write up. - The stored historical codes you had relate to the MAP and IAT sensors, they would have stored a fault code if the Starter Valves had been synched at some stage, as these sensors would have been unplugged during the synch process. The important thing is you have no current active fault code being displayed (Sidestand needs to be in down position for fault codes to display- if there are any). - Your fuel smell, difficult starting and poor running might be caused by a leaky injector or two, or a ruptured Fuel Pressure Regulator diaphragm which will dump raw fuel into cylinders 3 and 4 via the vaccumm hoses. Check the vaccumm hoses are dry and no fuel dripping from the FPV vaccumm connections. - As for your battery if it charges ok runs the headlights and offers a few good cranks of the Starter with normal good cranking speed it could be OK. Your Off, On and cranking voltage seem normal. But if you're unaware of it age, or health and not able to have it load checked, then it might be worth replacing. - The Orange Ground block you're referring to above the chain guard is for the 5gen. Good Luck.

YOU'RE JOKING. Why the hell didn't YOU mention this at the very Start!!!!! The answer to your Fault would be in three words - Replacement ECM Needed. But You already knew that! THE ANSWER WAS ALREADY THERE IN THAT OTHER POST - I Know of it Well. It pisses me off you've sent us on a wild goose chase, wasting time and effort and you not owning up to a known Fu@k Up with FCR Jumpering - No wonder I was suspicious. SHIT - I guess it sounds like I'm angry.

This may sound a little weird and I don't own a 1200. But just as a starting point. What is the age and health state of your Battery? A failing or weak battery can do strange things especially on the 1200 with its Throttle By Wire Technology. Also make sure battery terminals are clean and tight. Any doubts about the battery - Replace it. Maybe it was just the area you recorded the video or camera position, but your bike seems to have a few strange noises! The other strange thing that can be associated with a battery issue is the Flashing ABS light during the start of the video, prior to revving the engine. This is not normal, possible battery voltage below 10.5v

So with all the info provided, and a few more simple checks and tests to do, you're just going to ignore that and spend up big on a replacement ECM! Well, I sure hope your guess work gets the bike going for you! Your Fault could be as simple as a damaged wire, the Brown/Black ECM to FCR or a Ground problem with one of the ECM grounds mentioned! Then again, if you're unsure or don't want to admit to an accidental jumpering of the wrong wire at the FCR, then Yes, you will need a new ECM. Knowing that would have saved a whole lot of wasted time and effort. Good Luck and for the benefit of us all let's know how you get on.

Wow ya makin me blush! Many thanks Terry. Best Regards to You.

So the Ground block "looks good"! Did you happen to measure the two genuine Ground wires I mentioned within the block to ensure they are Properly Grounded? Have you checked the frame Grounds I mentioned? My last suggestions on your issue, I'm running out of ideas............. 1. MEASURE the ECM Grounds I've mentioned! A9 and A20 both Green/Pink wires AND B1 a Green wire. Unplug the ECM connectors, set you meter to the lowest Ohms range Black lead on the Battery Negative (Not Frame) probe these wires at the ECM connector. DO YOU READ ZERO OHMS?????? Refer to the attached partial wiring diagram and the ECM plug layout picture. 2. Verify you have Solid 12v at the Black/White wire at the ECM plug B8 Ignition to ON. 3. Check all ECM Pins and sockets for any sign of corrosion or oxidization due to moisture ingress. 4. Verify you have continuity/Zero Ohms on the FCR Ground wire Brown/Black from the ECM A5 to the FCR Relay Base. 5. Unplug one of the Sensors, be that the MAP, IAT, BARO or ECT. Turn on ignition, have the Sidestand DOWN. Does the ECM issue the appropriate Diagnostic Code for the sensor? If NOT this is further evidence your ECM could be toast. 6. If all Grounds, Power and wire continuity are tested as OK. Then there is a high probability your ECM is toast. INFO - As complex as the ECM is it is an incredibly reliable device. Generally it's Grounds, Power Supply, Sensors or wiring and connections that are at fault, rarely the ECM itself. Destroyed ECM's that I'm aware of have been caused by Overvoltage from a faulty R/R and the self induced incorrect jumpering of the FCR relay for Fuel Pump ops and Flow testing. Incorrectly placing 12v from the Black/White to the ECM grounding wire Brown/Black causing a dead short taking out the ECM. Good Luck and Happy Fault Finding!

If the Ground path control for the FCR within the ECM is blown there may be other consequences within the ECM. Having the Fuel Pump running constantly without ECM control removes a certain amount of safety protection, and anytime you have the Ignition on the Fuel Pump will be running constantly, not a really good scenario. But, its your bike and possibly doable provided there's no other damage to the ECM. But before going down that road, suggest the ECM Grounds and Orange Ground block need Very Good checking. Also check the Frame Grounds are clean and tight and have zero ohms continuity to the battery Negative terminal. Refer Section 1 of the Service Manual for Ground locations.

Your ECM is not providing the required Ground on the Brown/Black wire to energise the FCR. 1. You haven't made it clear if you unknowingly or accidentally applied the Black/White wire power to the Brown/Black wire when jumpering? If you did then you've blown the internals of the ECM. If you saw zero volts with that test, then I'm thinking you have zapped your ECM! Even with a bad ground (unless its open circuit) you possibly should have seen some form of low voltage during the 3sec switch On prime. 2. If the above doesn't appply, then you need to check the ECM Grounds. According to my drawing the ECM Grounds are at A9 and A20 both Green/Pink wires and B1 a Green wire. These should measure near Zero ohms continuity back the the battery Negative terminal. This will most likley lead you to the dreaded Orange Ground junction Block located in the wire harness just above your Chain Guard. See pictures. Do a very close inspection of this. Bad Grounding within this block causes a multitude issues with sensors and the Fuel Pump FCR operation. Within the block there are Two Genuine Ground wires, all the other wires are joined up via a buss bar and connectors to the Genuine Ground wires. The repair is to cut the block out and neatly solder ALL wires together and heat shrink sleeve the bundle, then tape it back onto the wire harness.

You didn't answer if you hear the relay click/energizing at switch On? From your description it appears the Relay is Not being energized from the ECM. Another Important Question - When turning Ignition to ON, does your Fi Light come On then switches OFF after the 3secs fuel prime time, OR does it remain ON? If it remains ON Check your Ignition Switch wiring, does it have 4 wires and is one of them Pink? This Pink wire is a hot wiring security feature and if the correct voltage (set by a Zener Diode on the bottom of the Ignition Switch) of 9volts is Not sent to the ECM it will not enable the Fuel Pump. See attached picture of the Ignition Switch base. Don't forget, at switch On the Fuel Pump should only run for about 3secs. The Relay will only energize for that time. Once cranking and running is detected by the ECM the FCR is again energized running the Pump continuously. With your meter set to voltage and Red lead on the battery positive. Probe the Brown/Black FCR wire with your Black meter lead. At switch On are you measuring 12v for about three seconds then the voltage should disappear?

I sure hope when you did the Jumping that you Never accidentally applied the 12v Black/White wire power to the Brown/Black wire as this Will destroy your ECM? The ECM supplies the Ground side for the FCR coil on the Brown/Black wire to energize it and run the fuel pump. - Do you hear the FCR click at Switch On for a few seconds? - If you are only seeing 4v on the Brown wire for the Fuel Prime duration, you may have high resistance contacts within the Relay itself, a faulty relay or poor contact connections within the relay socket. Are there any visible signs of corrosion in the socket? - Try swapping the FCR with your Hi Beam Relay. The four relays being Hi Beam, Lo Beam, ESR and FCR are all the same type. Good Luck. Let's know how you get on.

So have you got the bike going after all your Ground and electrical problems? Considering all the input that went into that issue, it would be kind of you to at leat post What the fix was?? So we can ALL learn.

Hi Grum, Thank you for your donation of 50.00 USD. We look forward to improving the forums with your donation. Thanks VFRDiscussion

Wonder if your version VFR has this front harness Ground Block, needs a good inspection if you have.

- Check the BAS Ground wire for continuity back to Battery Negative. What do you measure? - Have a close look at where this wire goes through the 18P Blue connector, bad joints and problems have occurred here. For fault finding at this stage keep the BAS bypassed, it stays out of the equation that way. Get the wiring and bike running first Then go back to reconnecting the BAS back to normal. - If there is any suspicion of an issue with the ESR, replace it with the Hi Beam Relay. You can only have a partial short or bad Ground, otherwise you'd be blowing a fuse. So you've confirmed all major grounds including engine ground are clean and good (not just tight) and measure zero ohms back the battery Negative? See attached picture.