BiKenG

That's what I'm doing. The legs of the puller are underneath the sprocket flange. In theory, the outer should simply pull off, but it's stuck on real tight.

Yes, that's true. Well, it's a combination of weight and linkages. The 3rd and 4th Gens did have different linkages. Not sure about the actual ratios, but they are the 'other way around'. The 4th Gen uses plates and the 3rd Gen uses a cast knuckle. I prefer the latter, but the former certainly makes it easier to adjust things, just by making different plates.

Currently the cush drive is one complete assembly. I've been trying to pull it all off in one go. But as it's being so stubborn, I'm going to try pulling the outer off first. Not so easy to grip that though. I may end up destroying it. Oh well, at least I never intended to actually use it. I just need to get all this stuff out of the Swing-Arm so that can be used. Oh, I need the eccentric too. You know what I'm doing with it.

This relates to a 3rd Gen, but is not confined to that. I'm trying to remove the axle from the Swing-Arm. The big axle nut that holds on the cush drive assembly is off and the cush assembly should now slide off the axle. But it doesn't. I currently have a large 3 leg puller on it, but it simply won't budge. Has anyone struggled with one of these and got it off in the end? What's the secret? Will I just have to lift it up into the hydraulic press and just use more brute force till it shifts? Suggestions welcome

Yes the different mount could explain the length difference. But as you say, the 3rd Gen is 5 kg heavier, yet it has a lower spring rate. Odd.

I was under the impression that the 3rd and 4th Gen S/As were basically the same apart from the suspension mount. But just looking at some specs and according to them, the 3rd Gen is 5mm longer @ 565 and 15 mm wider @ 250 mm. But a rough measure of a 4th Gen frame suggests a 3rd Gen S/A would in fact fit no problem. Can anyone confirm this difference, or are the specs that I looked at wrong and more specifically, can a 3rd Gen S/A be used in a 4th Gen frame? I had thought they were interchangeable, but maybe that's not the case. So would be good to hear from anyone who's done the swap.

Interesting that the 3rd Gen is so much longer and although the sizes of the 4th and 5th Gen are so similar, the spring rate is even higher than for the 1200. I wonder what factors made them make those decisions.

That's a shame. I have a couple of spare VFR1200 shocks I was hoping to use, but these days I'm looking for more suspension travel, not less, in order to provide some measure of comfort when navigating the appalling (and still deteriorating) UK road surfaces. The solution would be to make some different linkage plates that would provide the desired wheel travel for the shorter shock movement. You could also then allow for the harder spring. BTW, how do those shock lengths and travel compare to the 750 RC36?

Regarding Steen's (VFRRR) conversion pieces, anyone know for sure the materials they're made from. Steel and Al alloy I know, but exactly what alloys? The axle extension is very magnetic which suggests it's not stainless and Steen made no mention of this so it's likely to be mild steel. In which case, how is everyone who uses one actually protecting the metal? If left bare it will surely rust badly. Paint it? And what about the alloy nut. 7075 perhaps? Or what? Anyone know? Of course Steen knows, but he's kinda busy and I hoped someone else would know for sure.

Hey CraigG, how are you dealing with the VFR1200 front brakes. As you will know (or by now have found out) the VFR1200F forks require the calipers also from that bike. Their mount spacing is unique so NO other calipers can be used. How are you connecting them?

That sounds wrong, even if Terry meant it correctly. The BIGGER the Master Cylinder piston, the more fluid it moves which means the HARDER the brakes will feel, but the LESS pressure on the pads and so REDUCED actual braking force and vice versa. For the caliper it's the opposite, so the BIGGER the caliper piston, the LESS it moves, the SOFTER the brake will feel and GREATER the pressure applied and hence actual braking power. I'm sure Mohawk's maths were good, but it's the general principle one needs to understand. Too many times I have seen people confused by this and think bigger Master Cylinder means more braking. They feel harder brakes and think that is giving them more braking power when in fact the reverse is true. Don't get me started on the 'Brembo effect'. As with many things, it's all a compromise between hardness of feel and braking power. You can't have both. The reality is though that with hard lines you can achieve mega performance from brakes these days (as long as you junk all that linking and ABS crap). Don't forget, Honda's aims are not necessarily the same as yours. They want (and design) brakes that will provide sufficient stopping power, but are hard to lock up. ABS of course confuses the issue, but their desire to not have too much power is not necessarily what the experienced rider wants. I like a LOT of braking power so I can e.g. dash into mountain hairpins just using 1 or 2 fingers on the front brakes. This is not what Honda are designing for. But happily, there's lots of stuff I can swap to achieve what I want. For the OP, if you have delinked the brakes and the rear 17.5 mm Master Cylinder is directly coupled to the caliper and it feels too hard with not enough braking power, use a smaller M/C. The obvious swap is to a 14 mm one and happily they are not hard to find. Beware though, some FireBlades have the reservoir connection between the mounting lugs, whereas most have it on the opposite side from the lugs which is what the VFR needs so just take care when looking and before you buy, check that it's the right one.

Already done that, but they're still not showing up. Never mind, I've gone off the Triumph idea. I'll be modding a 916 wheel to fit the NC30 axle instead.

Oldish topic, but found it while trying to find some info about the Triumph rear wheel. Unfortunately none of the pictures posted by YoshiHNS can be seen, so perhaps someone could help. What is the offset of the Triumph (Sprint) 3 spoke wheel? I.e. the distance from the centre plane of the rim to the hub mounting surface. All the chain driven VFRs have a -19mm offset, but what offset is the Triumph wheel?

As I've said before, braking power is all about leverage and friction. The former is determined by the relative ratios of hydraulic piston sizes (Master Cylinder and calipers), M/C lever design and disc size (plenty of potential with all that to customise to one's personal preferences). The latter is governed by pad and disc material (can't really improve on what Honda have figured out there). Nowhere in the mathematics is there anything about the direction of the caliper mount bolts. Simply changing that will NOT improve your (potential) braking performance. Any such swap will often also involve other changes that do affect braking and mask the fact that the axial -> radial change (or vice versa) made f**k-all difference. If you want to fit radial calipers for the bling, I'm all for that - go for it.

If you're talking SP-1 or SP-2, the adapters to fit radial calipers are probably still available. In fact virtually all these Showa forks can be swapped around. As long as the inner leg diameter is the same (43 mm for these and most others) any outer leg can be used. The overall length is then determined by the length of the damper assembly and although that can be modified (by shortening or lengthening the rod, within reason regarding the inner/outer overlap) the stroke cannot be so easily changed. In fact, it can't be changed at all. It can be possible to swap around damper rod assemblies, but how their top and bottom fittings vary can restrict what will fit with what. Be aware however that Honda have used some Kayaba forks and they seem to prefer a 55 mm bottom yoke clamp diameter and a different thread for the top cap. JZH, let me know when you're done with those SP-2 outers John.

Hey Ghostrider (or anyone else), can you find out the PCD and wheel offset for the 1800 Gold Wing (and the new one)? Oh and also the PCD for the CB1000R and 8th Gen VFR? Unfortunately I don't have access to any of those to measure.

I had a go at measuring my 1200F wheel (as Seb says, same PCD and offset as CrossTourer). This is done just with a tape measure, nothing particularly accurate, but enough to give us an idea. The (5 bolt) PCD of the VFR1200 (7th Gen) is 80 mm which makes sense as the 750/800 uses a 4 bolt with 100 mm, so likely to be another round number. The offset seems to be about -1" to -1.25", it's hard to get any closer than that without taking the wheel off, but it's certainly not the -3/4" of the 750/800. Interestingly, I was also able to measure the rear wheel of a Rune which is likely to be, but not necessarily the same as a Gold Wing. The 5 bolt PCD is again 80 mm (as close as I could measure), but the offset is very different at +1.5" (again as close as I could measure it) which is the other way so a much deeper dish. By which time my hands were getting numb with cold, so that's all I could do. Warmer weather will mean better measurements.

Could you measure the PCD on yours? Not easy to do accurately but we should be able to do it well enough to compare 7th and 8th Gen and decide if it is the same. Most of the SSSA bikes seem to use a 19mm (3/4") offset of the wheel, I'm not sure about 7th Gen (1200) though yet. When the weather warms up I'll take my rear wheel off and measure it - and the PCD.

Am I right in thinking that you used an 8th Gen axle? The question then however is whether the 5 x wheel mount stud PCD is the same on the 8th Gen (800) as the 7th Gen (1200). No-one has so far answered that.

I know what you're saying but there are caveats. E.g. the VFR1200 uses a Honda proprietary serial communication link between ECU and gauge cluster that transmits info including HISS, gear position, oil pressure, engine management and others and they (Honda) do NOT want you to know the actual protocol. They don't publish it and won't tell you and that makes matching gauge clusters on bikes like this well nigh impossible. But I'm still working on it... I also discovered that although the VFR1200 models (F and X) are so very similar, it can catch you out. One would imagine that most of the wiring harness was common, but despite the fact that they both employ the same physical connector to their respective gauge clusters and both carry the exact same signals using the exact same wires, they are NOT in the same positions in that connector. So woe betide anyone who thinks they can simply connect up either dash to either bike. In order to use the CrossTourer dash on my VFR1200F based eVo4 I had to remove all the wire terminals from the connector and refit them in different pin positions. Then it does work, but I hate to think what would occur if you didn't reposition them before plugging it in. There is also the problem that not all fuel gauges operate at the same signal range, so dash swapping tends to throw up issues with fuel gauges too. There are adapters available to correct the readings, but it's something to be aware of. Much as I like a good 'digital' display, with many coloured display screens being used these days, there is another issue I've not seen mentioned. First of all, despite the cheapness of the basic components, the dash/gauge cluster of a modern bike, e.g. Honda can be around £1,000. Some more, some less. Insanely overpriced, but that's commonplace these days. Many of us have no doubt had to replace a warning/illumination bulb in gauges, but these are all now LEDs on the main board and although less likely to fail than an incandescent bulb, if/when they do, you have to buy a whole new dash at the aforementioned eye-wateringly expensive price. All just because a single light has failed. To me this is preposterous. £1,000 just to fix what used to be a simple bulb that cost almost nothing. While on the subject of wiring and costs, anyone checked on the price of a VFR1200F wiring harness. £1,500. I kid you not. Well, £1,486 to be precise at the last check. Am I the only one who sees how utterly unacceptable this is? Anyway, I have now settled on a 6th Gen dash/gauge cluster as suitable for my requirements. So if anyone has one available to sell...

Those sensors would stop the spark and/or fuel, so if you have those, the sensors are unlikely to be at fault. Likewise the pulse generator must be working. Is it firing at all or just simply turning over? Basically, if you have air, fuel, compression, spark, and they're occurring at the right time, the engine must run. So one of those factors must be missing or wrong. Do you have a clip-on strobe light? Really useful to help diagnose ignition/timing issues.

Good to know. Thanks for that. A typical Honda MAP sensor (I just checked for the RVT1000) is £256. So for the CBX, that would be prohibitive. I also have a VTR1000F FireStorm (er, Super Hawk in the US?) that I'd like to inject. So another project to keep me busy. Possibly do that before the CBX. Just see how everything else pans out.

Yes, I've read most of it, but a power cut here prevented me from finishing it. I will go back and read the rest though. It has encouraged me to start looking again at adding CNC capability to my mill. That would be enormously helpful in so many ways. But I digress... I understand that modifying the TBs to suit won't be trivial, but Patrik and Durbahn both use the TBs from a totally different bike and then had to totally create their own maps etc. from scratch. I am currently of the opinion that using 5th Gen TBs will not actually be as difficult although I may change my mind once I start hacking them. However, if I can get the TBs to fit, the rest of the system is essentially off-the-shelf, just by using the 800 parts and it should even run like that with just minor tuning required with a PC. All that is a BIG advantage by using the VFR800 parts. I do have to add a Cam sensor, but that's been done before. Of course the first requirement is that I can get the TBs to fit and I'm waiting on a set of 5th Gens I can start work on. Currently I'm firmly of the opinion that it will be easier than modifying the carbs, but I guess I'll soon be finding out if I'm right or wrong on that. It's all good clean fun though.

I see, so there's a MAP sensor for each cylinder. I have a funny feeling Honda MAP sensors are rather expensive, but I guess he's using a more cost effective sensor. All food for thought re the CBX, but is another reason for grafting the 800s injection onto the 750 as provided it can physically be done, then it's relatively simple as there's a ready made wiring harness with all the required sensors and just the one ECU module. No other ancillary electronics required. Well, apart from a Power Commander or equivalent. At least I assume it will need some tweaking, although just have to see on that once it's running.

Aha, I've been thinking along those lines too, using the VFR750's carbs and I believe an early Kawasaki 900/1000 (I forget which) had a similar injector rail with suitable injectors. I've not discounted it and will be looking into that and the MicroSquirt for a similar project to inject a CBX1000 (6 cylinder), but that's further down the line. For this VFR750 I kinda want to make it as Honda as possible, so priority will be to see if I can use the 800 parts. If I can't use those TBs, I'll look for alternative TBs and if that fails, then it's modify carb time and a different ECU. But it's always interesting to see what others are doing to inject their bikes, even more so with regard to my CBX project. How does the MS use MAP sensor output to detect engine position? If the MAP sensor is connected to all intakes, how does it know which pulse is for which cylinder? BTW, why did you choose the MS over say Motec?.