Craigande Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 I have an 06. I have been chasing/battling a surging issue for the last two years. The local Honda shop is NO help at all. See, there are only 3 VFR's, that I know of, in the State of Utah. Here is the issue. When cold starting, the motor runs and idles very well. When the motor get up to operating temperature, it starts to surge.. So much so that it will die at intersections and most times when I let off the throttle. If this was a car, I would suspect the Throttle Position Sensor. I will admit, I play with cars a lot more than I tinker with my bike. I know, from reading posts in the group, the bike does have a TPS. Where is it located? What does it look like? I want to clean it and see how that will help. Any help, and photos, would be greatly appreciated. I do have the tank and the air cleaner off the bike at present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted March 7, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted March 7, 2016 Hi Craigande. Poor performance at low throttle settings is generally caused by poor Starter Valve Synch, there's tonnes of info on this site about this issue. Are you getting any error codes from the FI Light? If you are not getting any error codes then What is the state of your Air Filter? and possibly Fuel Filter? Fuel Pressure Reg? Vac Hoses? Get yourself a shop manual I think you can download the 6th gen for free. Hope this is a good starting point for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 Add the fuel pump to Grum's list of fuel and air concerns. Test the battery voltage at idle and at 5,000 RPM when fully warmed up and inspect the power connections for corrosion or heat damage. Such might flake out when hot. The high power charging system connectors and ground terminal blocks are of particular concern. Since it seems heat related another possibility is the coolant temperature sensor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 If you have a bazzaz/power commander/rapid bike it is pretty easy to read your throttle position, when plugged into a lap top and therefore determine if your tps is actually faulty or not calibrated right. (Which i doubt there is a problem with the tps as I have never heard of a vfr800 tps failing) Have You tried adjusting the idle? Sync your starter valves and properly adjust your idle. I am sure that will clear up your problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigande Posted March 7, 2016 Author Share Posted March 7, 2016 Gentlemen, There are no error codes. The Honda shop did check for that. The bike is bone stock, as far as the motor is concerned. I have had a new fuel pump put in. They replaced the entire wiring harness to fix the possibility of the harness recall, and put in the larger fuse just to the rear of the battery. The battery is new, last year, and I just recharged it. The air filter I do not know about. I presume, forgive my ignorance of my own bike, the air filter is the entire part that covers the velocity stacks? I have looked at all of the hoses and lines I can see. There are no cracks or other issues, again, that I can see. I will have to get that shop manual. Thank you. Any other suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 The 2006 did not get the wire harness recall. The 2002-2005 was the one with the wire harness recall. Yes the air filter covers the velocity stacks. The larger main fuse was a good idea, as the main fuse does fail and is a common occurrence. I would not have bothered with the honda shop, as they typically do not know what they are doing and even a perfect working stock/new 2006 vfr800, does struggle with surging. I would look more into, having the injectors ultrasonic cleaned and balanced and doing a starter valve sync and replacing all the vaccuum lines. Then once thats sorted out I would do the typical drivability mods that the dealership will not touch, like power commander/tune, o2 sensor eliminator, pair valve block off, flapper/snorkle delete etc.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 Did you buy the bike with this issue or did it develop during your ownership? Did it happen right after any maintenance? This is probably redundant to the above, but just in case: The air filter element is in the air cleaner. Here is a pic: http://www.hondapartshouse.com/oemparts/a/hon/5053f5f8f870021c54be7cfc/air-cleaner Do you have the base of the air cleaner off and have you inspected the lines underneath for connection and correct routing? Graphic: http://www.hondapartshouse.com/oemparts/a/hon/5053f5dbf870021c54be7ce2/throttle-body-assy Starter Valve procedure: http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/33-starter-valve-syncronization-vtec/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 Guys, can any sensor connections (such as TPS) be mistakenly swapped on this bike, causing this issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 Oh yeah. The crank position sensor connector and the other connection right next to it can be easily plugged in wrong, but I think they are color coded. Also the o2 sensors have been known to be plugged in to the opposite plugs, which could very well cause bad lean surging. A quick check for this would be plugging in o2 eliminators and seeing if it still surges.... The fuel injectors could easily be mixed up as well and cause some surging. I believe those connectors should be numbered. The velocity stacks are of a staggered front to rear arrangement and have been known to be mixed up, but that would not effect idle, only large throttle openings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted March 8, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted March 8, 2016 CandyRedRC46, agree the sensors you mention are both 2P connectors, but, a missing or faulty Cam Pulse Generator or Ignition Pulse Generator signal = DEAD ENGINE and surely would cause an error code? If a couple of injector plugs were swapped, wouldn't the bike run like a bag of sh@t all the time? Craigande is concerned about his TPS, surely if the TPS was operating outside the ECM tolerance wouldn't this trigger a fault code? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigande Posted March 8, 2016 Author Share Posted March 8, 2016 Okay. Based on information given. My velocity stacks were put back in wrong by the local shop. The bike ran great for many years. Two years ago, when I pulled it out of the garage for the spring. It had the problem. It just magically started. I will check the air filter and find a Nanometer? I think that is what you called it. Anyway, I will check the Start valve adjustment. Do they just go out of adjustment like that? Okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted March 8, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted March 8, 2016 Okay. Based on information given. My velocity stacks were put back in wrong by the local shop. The bike ran great for many years. Two years ago, when I pulled it out of the garage for the spring. It had the problem. It just magically started. I will check the air filter and find a Nanometer? I think that is what you called it. Anyway, I will check the Start valve adjustment. Do they just go out of adjustment like that? Okay.Wonder if having the bike untouched for two years that the fuel in the tank would have turned to crap upsetting the fuel system.Perhaps good fresh fuel and a good dose of injector cleaner may help solve your issues. It may take a few tanks with injector cleaner before you notice a subtle improvement, it's well worth a try. If you are referring to what you use to synch your starter valves, its a Manometer (4 column) or set of vacuum gauges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 CandyRedRC46, agree the sensors you mention are both 2P connectors, but, a missing or faulty Cam Pulse Generator or Ignition Pulse Generator signal = DEAD ENGINE and surely would cause an error code? If a couple of injector plugs were swapped, wouldn't the bike run like a bag of sh@t all the time? Craigande is concerned about his TPS, surely if the TPS was operating outside the ECM tolerance wouldn't this trigger a fault code? I agree with you about the crank position sensor, I doubt it would run with out it, but not about the injectors. If you mix up the order of the injectors it will run, but you will possibly get some surging here and there. Okay. Based on information given. My velocity stacks were put back in wrong by the local shop. The bike ran great for many years. Two years ago, when I pulled it out of the garage for the spring. It had the problem. It just magically started. I will check the air filter and find a Nanometer? I think that is what you called it. Anyway, I will check the Start valve adjustment. Do they just go out of adjustment like that? Okay.Wonder if having the bike untouched for two years that the fuel in the tank would have turned to crap upsetting the fuel system.Perhaps good fresh fuel and a good dose of injector cleaner may help solve your issues. It may take a few tanks with injector cleaner before you notice a subtle improvement, it's well worth a try. If you are referring to what you use to synch your starter valves, its a Manometer (4 column) or set of vacuum gauges. As the throttle body butterflies wear against the bores and the starter valves wear into their associated bores, they can begin to let in slightly more or less air relative to each other. Also as the engine itself breaks in or begins to wear out, you can have one cylinder that is slight more or less strong than another cylinder, though I doubt this plays as strong of a role as the throttle body wearing in, the starter valves will need to be re-optimized for these new variances. Don't bother with fuel injector cleaner, for the most part, it is just snake oil. If you want to actually do your bike a favor, pull out your fuel filter and injectors. Then replace the fuel filter with a new oem filter and send your injectors out to be rebuilt and ultrasonic cleaned by https://precisionautoinjectors.com/or a similar shop near you that does the like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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