Two Brothers Header Replication!

[stryker]

First of all we have to source a tbr donor pipe, and tyga will make a copy of that. Understandably it isn't possible to choose from different types of setups etc. This will be a header and link pipe only, so everyones free to use whatever silencer they like. If i remeber correctly the tbr exhaust is 2" which opens upp for many different silencers, as this is a pretty common diameter.

Performance wise the tbr header is the best. Google it and you should find some info.

As for quality Tyga is top notch from what i have heard, check out their homepage tyga-performance.com

[750]

Performance wise the tbr header is the best.

This is a massive claim. Every bike is marginally different, every bike will more than likely need additional jetting adjustment and rolling road tuning. If anyone tells you there's a simply drop in kit, they're talking out their arse.

80bhp here. Have to say that's ridiculously low, mine with dyno kit, RR set up and Sebring left exit made 93rwhp.

[stryker]

Who said anything about not having to jet the bike correctly? Please tell me if there are better exhausts out there...

80hp... don't think its the exhaust fault.

[750]

Not saying it's the exhausts fault, not saying anyone mentioned not jetting either. Stop getting your knickers in a twist, it's just advice as I've been down this route before, albeit I came out the other side placing no orders due to people pulling out when they found out the pricing.

There will be plenty of people who tell you that you can simply bung a left exit onto the bike and ride away. You may well be able to, but I can promise you that there'll be flat spots in the low to mid range that really do affect the ride enough to warrant a great deal of disappointment. So it's an additional cost.

Again, people will buy Dynojet kits and assume they need to bang the biggest jets in and don't need rolling road action, in virtually all cases, you need the smallest jets available...and they don't come as part of the kit for the VFR750, so more additional cost.

Left exit's are an inherently expensive choice, the system = £££, jetting (most would be wise to have this done at a specialist) incuding dyno time (as you will NEVER know if it's right without this) = ££££. It's a bike that's 14 years old at it's youngest, 25 at it's oldest, and generally worth little more than £1500 in any part of the world. It takes a pretty big love and thought of keeping the bike forever to want to sink that kinda money into the VFR750. You may see this as being negative but I see it as being realistic. I've been there, I've done it and I simply won't ever sell the bike as it's clear it'd get me a laughably low amount of money back. Most people don't contemplate this in advance, they just see "two brothers" and get all giddy, very few go ahead with it as the costs become very real very quickly.

[stryker]

How much $$$ people are willing to put into their bike is up to each and everyone, i've put more than enough into mine because i love the bike more than the r1 and xr 650 i had, and i'm fine with that, it's a hobby.Using factory pro jets and their recommendations you get pretty close, never used dyno jet. But if you want it perfect, then of course you need dyno runs. I just think it's inspiring with all the people trying to improve these bikes. There has been some excellent builds.?

[jerritt]

I'm in for the 5 gen and i don't plan on backing out. I have a ker ker on my 82 cb750k and 4 pod style air filters and I bought this kit from dynojet and played around with the jets and needles, I found the original needles I went with mid position and a shim worked best I think I went up to 74 and 112 on the primary and secondary jets which is what worked on that bike where I didn't get much mid range hesitation the provided needles had steps which made the throttle twitchy that's why I used the original. Regardless of what you do you'll have to play with it. I have a gpr can and bmc air filter a pc III and i plan on polishing and porting my heads and installing r6 velocity stacks when I get my Tyga pipes and then having my bike dyno'd. so don't make assumptions on what people plan on doing to their bikes because I spent $1700 on having my forks and new shocks built for my 30 year old cb

[stryker]

Well spoken jerritt!

[750]

I'm in for the 5 gen and i don't plan on backing out. I have a ker ker on my 82 cb750k and 4 pod style air filters and I bought this kit from dynojet and played around with the jets and needles, I found the original needles I went with mid position and a shim worked best I think I went up to 74 and 112 on the primary and secondary jets which is what worked on that bike where I didn't get much mid range hesitation the provided needles had steps which made the throttle twitchy that's why I used the original. Regardless of what you do you'll have to play with it. I have a gpr can and bmc air filter a pc III and i plan on polishing and porting my heads and installing r6 velocity stacks when I get my Tyga pipes and then having my bike dyno'd. so don't make assumptions on what people plan on doing to their bikes because I spent $1700 on having my forks and new shocks built for my 30 year old cb

How few and far between are nutters like us though? VERY, is the answer.

[Andy Griff]

I'd be interested in a Tyga 4th Gen system, but would like to know what the expected power increase would be when using their replicated TBR system.

Not being fussy, but it seems Honda did a good job with the design of their OEM system, all be it a bit agricultural.

A "performance product" such as this would surely require prototype testing on a stock RC36 in order to evaluate the new systems performance, fitment and general effect on AFR.

Tyga's reputation could be at stake if it wasn't up to scratch.

Griff.

[festertruck]

Depending on final cost I would possibly be interested in a high mount left exit. Been looking for one for quite awhile.

[slovcan]

I'd be interested in a Tyga 4th Gen system, but would like to know what the expected power increase would be when using their replicated TBR system.

Not being fussy, but it seems Honda did a good job with the design of their OEM system, all be it a bit agricultural.

A "performance product" such as this would surely require prototype testing on a stock RC36 in order to evaluate the new systems performance, fitment and general effect on AFR.

Tyga's reputation could be at stake if it wasn't up to scratch.

Griff.

Well, Griff, I would say for the 4th gen you would get the highly coveted high mount, left exit pipe to which you attach whatever can makes your hair stand up at all rev ranges (for me that's Supertrapp) and a power/torque increase of ZERO. The 4th gen's don't have collector boxes, so no power left on the table - at least none you would notice. Just my humble and realistic opinion.

Cheers,

Glenn

[750]

Wouldn't it just be easier to cut a 4th gen system and weld on a link pipe that pops out under the swing arm? MUST have been done by someone at some point.

[JZH]

I'd be interested in a Tyga 4th Gen system, but would like to know what the expected power increase would be when using their replicated TBR system.

Not being fussy, but it seems Honda did a good job with the design of their OEM system, all be it a bit agricultural.

A "performance product" such as this would surely require prototype testing on a stock RC36 in order to evaluate the new systems performance, fitment and general effect on AFR.

Tyga's reputation could be at stake if it wasn't up to scratch.

I don't know for sure, but the distinct impression I have always had from TBR is that, for the VFR at least, their headers were never intended to be "performance enhancing". About ten years ago they pretty much stopped manufacturing complete systems for Hondas, and said this in their 2006 catalog:

There have been drastic improvements in today’s modern sportbikes over the past 10 years. It used to be easy to get 8, 10, or even 15 extra HP form an aftermarket exhaust system. Those times have passed, however, and the OEMs (Original Equipment Manufacturers) now use titanium headers with special collectors, crossover tubes, power valves, etc. It is not reasonable to believe that an aftermarket company can improve upon what the factory has spent countless dollars and hours designing around the ENGINE that they also developed.

Some improvement is possible, but I don't think TBR spent a lot of time on a dyno developing their VFR exhaust headers to their maximum potential.

Ciao,

[The Phantom]

I'd be interested in a Tyga 4th Gen system, but would like to know what the expected power increase would be when using their replicated TBR system.

Not being fussy, but it seems Honda did a good job with the design of their OEM system, all be it a bit agricultural.

A "performance product" such as this would surely require prototype testing on a stock RC36 in order to evaluate the new systems performance, fitment and general effect on AFR.

Tyga's reputation could be at stake if it wasn't up to scratch.

I don't know for sure, but the distinct impression I have always had from TBR is that, for the VFR at least, their headers were never intended to be "performance enhancing". About ten years ago they pretty much stopped manufacturing complete systems for Hondas, and said this in their 2006 catalog:

I'm pretty sure I remember topics on the 'big list' fifteen years (!) ago where 4th and 5th Gen owners were reporting dyno-proven gains of 10hp up top with TBR full systems (and probably a K&N and desnorkel), but losing midrange torque. Which you'd expect from a 4-1 system.

Staintune topics of the era suggested that a Staintune slip-on was worth zero gain on a 4th Gen and 6-7hp on a 5th Gen.

I'm not surprised at the reasons they pulled out of full systems, though - Staintune are gone for exactly the same reason. I was in the closed Staintune factory in October and the walls are literally lined with half-finished systems and mufflers...

[Andy Griff]

I've read a few articles on modifying RC36's over the years, both on line and in various publications.

Based on results contained within these write ups I tend to agree with what Phantom is saying in that the original Two Brothers system did actually produce a reasonable power increase over stock - whilst most other systems did not. Hence my comment that the OEM system was designed well by Honda. I wish I could find the article(s).

There where also limited 4-1 (racing) systems produced for the Mk1 RC36 models ! Mainly marketed in the U.S.

I'm not too sure on performance test results for these, but jetting mods would certainly be required to suit and I'm pretty sure there would be a noticeable sacrifice of mid range to gain top end power. I'll try and find some pics for those who might be interested.

[750]

I've read a few articles on modifying RC36's over the years, both on line and in various publications.

Based on results contained within these write ups I tend to agree with what Phantom is saying in that the original Two Brothers system did actually produce a reasonable power increase over stock - whilst most other systems did not. Hence my comment that the OEM system was designed well by Honda. I wish I could find the article(s).

There where also limited 4-1 (racing) systems produced for the Mk1 RC36 models ! Mainly marketed in the U.S.

I'm not too sure on performance test results for these, but jetting mods would certainly be required to suit and I'm pretty sure there would be a noticeable sacrifice of mid range to gain top end power. I'll try and find some pics for those who might be interested.

I've read a few articles on modifying RC36's over the years, both on line and in various publications.

Based on results contained within these write ups I tend to agree with what Phantom is saying in that the original Two Brothers system did actually produce a reasonable power increase over stock - whilst most other systems did not. Hence my comment that the OEM system was designed well by Honda. I wish I could find the article(s).

There where also limited 4-1 (racing) systems produced for the Mk1 RC36 models ! Mainly marketed in the U.S.

I'm not too sure on performance test results for these, but jetting mods would certainly be required to suit and I'm pretty sure there would be a noticeable sacrifice of mid range to gain top end power. I'll try and find some pics for those who might be interested.

Absolutely this. My Sebring has definitely forsaken some low end pick up in favour of some pretty barmy action above 7krpm

[JZH]

The TBR left-exit exhaust system was 4-1, while my FP's current TBR right-exit system is 4-2-1. I suspect TBR did no dyno testing at all on those designs--just tubing welded together in such a way to fit the bike and put the end can where they wanted it. Looks nice, though!

Ciao,

[slovcan]

I will say it again - if you put this on a bike that had a collector box, you will need to re-jet and certainly see a performance gain. If you don't re-jet but only readjust I seriously doubt you will get any performance gain (no, you won't), but may still be rideable enough UNTIL you get the re-jetting done.

If you put this on a bike that currently has no factory collector box there will be no performance gain whether or not you re-jet. Re-jetting might even hurt performance in some way (torque curve/power band?). On this bike you'll get great looks and sound (by choosing your ideal can) and that's it.

For me, I would LOVE to have the left exit high mount. That said, the performance I have, even with the collector box exhaust and Supertrapp can, is MORE than I use, need or want. To each their own. Just don't think you'll get something out of this that isn't there.

Like I said, I would LOVE to have the left exit high mount!

Now I'm not an engineer with a dyno, but I have done some car engine building and performance tuning including jetting dual Webers on my race car in a previous life. I have maintained/repaired engines and mechanicals from lawn mowers to commercial jets. I am a realist due to my experience.

Cheers,

Glenn

Cheers,

Glenn

[750]

Yeah, nothing special is going to happen other than exposing the rear wheel fully, which in my opinion is done just as effectively with a high level. Honda got it just about perfect with this bike.

[mattiep321]

I'm in for a 4th gen left high

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[Andy Griff]

I'm not bothered if it's left or right exit. However, what I would really like is a quality system that does away with that heavy sub manifold / flange which connects the OEM downpipes to the rear cylinders, so the replacement headers would bolt directly to the rear cylinder head as per RC30. I'd pay the extra for this, although I know it's unlikely Tyga would deviate from the basic OEM design.

[750]

I'm not bothered if it's left or right exit. However, what I would really like is a quality system that does away with that heavy sub manifold / flange which connects the OEM downpipes to the rear cylinders, so the replacement headers would bolt directly to the rear cylinder head as per RC30. I'd pay the extra for this, although I know it's unlikely Tyga would deviate from the basic OEM design.

Sebring system.

Or, if you're willing to risk it....Black Widow exhausts, I'm pretty sure they're Sandy Bike Spares though, and we all know how shit they were. So shit that they had to fold that company and roll it into another with a spiders name.

[Andy Griff]

Yeah, I did buy a used SBS system to evaluate quite some time ago.

It looked fine externally, and was much lighter than OEM, but the internal port matching was awful (as we know) and I'm quite sure it would have lost power over the OEM system - not what I'm looking for, but probably OK as a budget stainless replacement.

It would be interesting to see a dyno comparison of OEM vs Stock SBS vs internally optimised SBS with dyno set up.

I wish I had a dyno.

[JZH]

I'm not bothered if it's left or right exit. However, what I would really like is a quality system that does away with that heavy sub manifold / flange which connects the OEM downpipes to the rear cylinders, so the replacement headers would bolt directly to the rear cylinder head as per RC30. I'd pay the extra for this, although I know it's unlikely Tyga would deviate from the basic OEM design.

The TBR design does not use the manifold, so neither would a TBR replica. I would assume.

Ciao,

[stryker]

That's correct, the TBR connects directly to the head. I will make a "commit to buy" list when Tyga is ready to start this project. But first they have to get the 5/6th gen exhaust ready. So will porbably take a while.