Balu Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 I'm a bit at a loss at what to do, if someone has any suggestions I would appreciate it. I had a leak at the SMC so I replaced it. While I'm at it I also rebuilt the front left caliper (all OEM parts). After assembling everything together and bleeding the brakes I noticed the rear wheel is stuck. Front is perfect, no issues what so ever. But the rear I can only move with extreme effort (basically if I push full force I can barely move the bike). At this point I was a bit stumped but figured perhaps the rear caliper needs rebuilding too since who knows when (if ever) the PO did it so I rebuilt both the rear caliper and the front right caliper too so I don't have to think about brakes for a while. I replaced the pads a few months ago (EBC HH) so those are fine. However after putting it all back together and bleeding the same issue happens again. I went and took apart the RMC hoping it was gunked up and that's what the issue was but no such luck. It was quite clean but I cleaned it myself anyway and put it back together. I bled the brakes again but the issue is still there. I must have bled the brakes like 10 times today. There are no bubbles anywhere and I tried following literally every bleed order I could find from the Honda manual to random forum posts but nothing made a difference. So I took the rear caliper off and looked at the pistons - the 2 outer ones appear fine but the middle one is pushing the pad at all times. I can push it in a bit with a lot of force but it will immediately push back out. The piston is not stuck (if I open up the bleed valve on the PCV it goes back in effortlessly). What else could it be? Faulty PCV? I tried this test posted here with the PCV and fluid comes out. Is that test a conclusive test? Maybe some gunk from the lines somewhere somehow clogged the new SMC? The old SMC leaking caused all the fluid from the rear reservoir to drain out (I don't know exactly when) so could having air in the system for a while have damaged the PCV or something else? I don't know how long it was like that since I only just noticed it a couple weeks ago (bike is just sitting in garage over winter and it made a small puddle). So to sum it up I have: - Replaced the SMC (brand new) - Rebuilt all 3 calipers with all new OEM parts - Took apart and cleaned the RMC - Bled everything like 10 times - no air anywhere - Looked at the bike angrily for hours Bike is a 2002 non-abs model with 55k on the clock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer dawson Posted January 29, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted January 29, 2015 Isn't that piston controlled from the chummyjigger on the front left caliper? Chummyjigger being the technical term for the bit that actuates when torque is applied by the front caliper and rotor... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Duc2V4 Posted January 30, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted January 30, 2015 Isn't that piston controlled from the chummyjigger on the front left caliper? Chummyjigger being the technical term for the bit that actuates when torque is applied by the front caliper and rotor... Which is better known as the SMC (Secondary Master Cylinder). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balu Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share Posted January 30, 2015 Took apart the (brand new heh) SMC to see if maybe I screwed up something there. All looked fine so I gave it a quick clean and put it back together and still the same issue. I've ordered a PCV off eBay now (OEM price is $600... are you serious Honda???) so we'll see if that's the problem when it arrives next week. Will update the thread then. If anyone has any other ideas I'm all ears. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer dawson Posted January 30, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted January 30, 2015 Thanks for the word Duc! Now I'll have the try to use it in a sentence three times today to remember it... Good luck Balu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer HighSideNZ Posted January 30, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted January 30, 2015 The SMC is fed from the rear master cylinder reservoir. Just make sure that it isn't over filled. Also, make sure that the push rod on the RMC is free and not holding the piston up over the feed hole in the MC. I kind of had a similar thing a few years ago. Can't remember exactly the cause but I think it was one of the above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balu Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share Posted January 30, 2015 The SMC is fed from the rear master cylinder reservoir. Just make sure that it isn't over filled. Also, make sure that the push rod on the RMC is free and not holding the piston up over the feed hole in the MC. I kind of had a similar thing a few years ago. Can't remember exactly the cause but I think it was one of the above. The reservoir is at like 50% (cap is off too so it shouldn't matter). Checked the push rod just now and adjusted it as much as possible and no luck there either. I don't think it's pushed in at all when the pedal is not pressed down. Thanks for the suggestions. It definitely seems to be an issue of fluid getting back to the cylinder. If I pop the PCV bleed valve just a touch the wheel spins freely. Press the rear brake once and let go the wheel still spins but it takes quite a bit of effort. Press the rear break again and it's almost impossible to move the wheel now (with hands anyway). But if the RMC is fine and fluid comes out from the metal pipe on top of the PCV then what else is left that could cause the issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer gmtech94 Posted January 30, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted January 30, 2015 It could also be a bad line that is coming apart inside causing a flapper valve effect . I have seen this on lines that have been crimped of using vice grips ,the inside liner seperates and and stops fluid from returning quickly . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balu Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share Posted January 30, 2015 It could also be a bad line that is coming apart inside causing a flapper valve effect . I have seen this on lines that have been crimped of using vice grips ,the inside liner seperates and and stops fluid from returning quickly . Interesting... it sounds possible since I think after a few hours the wheel is movable again until the brake is pressed again. How would I go about figuring out which line exactly collapsed? I suppose it could be anything between SMC <-> PCV <-> rear middle piston? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balu Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share Posted January 30, 2015 Man... screw it. Just the excuse I needed to get stainless steel lines. Ordered a kit. If at the end of all this it turns out to be something else I'm gonna laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balu Posted February 6, 2015 Author Share Posted February 6, 2015 Alright so another update. I'm not a mechanic and I try and learn all this stuff as I go so please excuse my dumbness on this. I did some more testing yesterday and I pumped the brakes a few times to get them to lock and then I opened the line at the SMC that goes to the PCV just a touch. The rear middle piston disengaged immediately. Then I pumped it again but this time I opened the line that goes into the SMC and the rear middle piston did not disengage and it was like I didn't do anything. So clearly the PCV is not the issue nor the lines. So the problem was in the SMC after all I thought. But I put a brand new one in so I was just confused. Turns out the little teal filter that sits between the SMC and the incoming line was the cause. Once I removed it the rear middle piston no longer sticks. The only issue now is oil leaks at that spot. I'm guessing pressure pushes that filter and the little rubber o-ring into place there and thus makes a better seal than there is without it. Since the plastic on the filter is broken (was like that when I took it out) and I don't see that as a separate thing that can be ordered from Honda I've ordered another replacement caliper from eBay and will just take out the filter from there. I guess I must have put it in the wrong way after cleaning or the broke plastic caused it to not work right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balu Posted February 11, 2015 Author Share Posted February 11, 2015 Got the replacement caliper from eBay and just took out the little filter and dropped it into mine and voila - everything works perfectly now. Too bad you can't order the filter separately but at least I have a spare caliper now if I ever need it. I always thought the bike was heavy to push around - now it feels 10 times easier and both wheels spin freely (well the chain slows down the rear one but you get what I mean). Now just for some nice weather... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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