dynajohn Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 There seems to still be some confusion on other forums over whether the 2012, 2013 models with traction control are still restricted in 1st & 2nd gears. I picked up my new 2013 1200F yesterday and put about a hundred miles on it. My first ride impression was that the bike was not that impressive in 1st or 2nd gear full throttle roll ons. It hesitates when rolling the throttle on hard for the first 200 or so RPM's and then comes on harder in both 1st & 2nd. I tried the same thing with the TC turned off and it ran the same. I came home and installed a Zbomb (easy job about 5 minutes) and went back out for another ride with the traction control enabled again. When I rolled the throttle on hard in 1st from about 3000 RPM the bike responded immediately and pulled hard to about 6000 RPM where the front wheel lifted and the traction control immediately shut the power down (like hitting the rev limiter). I repeated this scenario 2 more times and the TC shut down the fun each time as the bike started a power wheelie in 1st gear. Turned the TC off and the bike will do controlled power wheelies with the Zbomb installed. I will have the bike on a dyno some time before the end of October to get some stock baseline HP & TQ readings before installing a power commander and AKRA slip on later this fall. I will do a 2nd gear test run with & without the Zbomb to see if the results are close to those shown in the Bazzaz dyno charts on the 2010 model. I don't need a dyno to tell me there is still a significant power limit on the 2013 1200F in the first two gears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CornerCarver Posted September 27, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted September 27, 2013 DynoJohn sounds like the man for the job! Pics of the power wheelie would be fun too, love to see the Veefalo honing around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubbersidedown Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Thank you for finally addressing and attempting to answer this question for all of us. Too bad Honda didn't... Looking forward to the actual test results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vfrflanders Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 "My first ride impression was that the bike was not that impressive in 1st or 2nd gear full throttle roll ons. It hesitates when rolling the throttle on hard for the first 200 or so RPM's and then comes on harder in both 1st & 2nd. I tried the same thing with the TC turned off and it ran the same. " I think you're right. I might be wrong, but I think Honda didn't do anything about first and second gear on the 2012/2013 model. In first and second gear you have a big torque gap between 4000 and 5000 RPM. It builds up fast between 5000 and 6000 RPM. At +6000 RPM you have "normal" torque values. You can hear it as well. While in 3th gear the engine around 4500 RPM almost sounds like an old RC36, in first and second gear the engine sounds like badly tuned moped.between 4000 and 6000 RPM. Besides that, we have in Europe what we call an EC type-approval. If Honda changed the engine caracteristics, they need a new EC-type- approval, what's not the case for the 2012-2013 model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer luvtoleanit Posted September 27, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted September 27, 2013 Can't wait to flash the ecu and get rid of this nonsense. They can keep the traction control too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dynajohn Posted September 27, 2013 Author Share Posted September 27, 2013 Can't wait to flash the ecu and get rid of this nonsense. They can keep the traction control too. I decided to let you test the reflash with ECU Unleashed first after my experience trying to clarify where to send the ECU and what exactly they provided. I hope it out works out because that is the best answer as far as removing the ECU restriction on 1st & 2nd, removing the top speed limiting and raising the RPM limiter. I doubt they can furnish the best tune for fuel trims with a canned reflash because there are so many variables. I sent an e mail inquiry to the website of ECU Unleashed and got a prompt response. They referred me to the nearest authorized dealer they said was set up to do the reflash. The people they referred me to never heard of them and a second dealer in Texas listed as a authorized dealer didn't do reflashes for them on Hondas. I sent a second e mail explaining what had happened and asking what was up with their authorized dealers and didn't get any answer. Not very comforting. I decided to go ahead and purchase a PC 5 and have the bike custom dyno tuned. Lucky for me I have an excellent dyno tuning shop locally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer luvtoleanit Posted September 27, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted September 27, 2013 I do both, flash the ECU (for restrictions only) then adjust the fuel myself on the dyno. Then I hook up an autotune. If everything goes well I will send in mine in a month. crazy is going to send in his soon (Or I think he is going by in person) so he'll be the first one. He's been the one person in most contact with them over this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volfy Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Dynajohn, judging by your list of 2 and 4 wheel conveyances, I can see why having the 1st and 2nd gear with absolutely no hinderances would be a necessity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dynajohn Posted October 19, 2013 Author Share Posted October 19, 2013 Dynajohn, judging by your list of 2 and 4 wheel conveyances, I can see why having the 1st and 2nd gear with absolutely no hinderances would be a necessity. I am a bit obsessive compulsive about screwing around with motors. It isn't necessary any more than the long list of other stuff I ordered for this bike after placing my order for the new bike. I am just one of those guys (retired engineer) who likes to tinker with my bikes & get the most out of them without modifying the motors internally. Thank you for finally addressing and attempting to answer this question for all of us. Too bad Honda didn't... Looking forward to the actual test results. It will be some time in early to mid November before I get the bike on a dyno to compare 2nd gear runs with & without the Z Bomb on my 2013 model. I pulled the exhaust system to remove the cat and a custom pipe fab shop is fabbing & installing a 2 into one merge collector to replace the cat. This plus all the dyno jet stuff I ordered took longer to arrive than I originally was promised. The Akrapovic slip on still is on back order. i won't do any dyno tuning until the exhaust system is finished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AussieVFR Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 I am considering purchasing a 2013 VFR1200 when they become available in Australia. Can you tell me if they still need a zbomb to overcome the problem with 1st and 2nd gear power restrictions. I have seen a lot of discussion but no dyno charts that show the 2013 model still suffers from the power restrictions. Thanks Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crakerjac Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Yes. '13 models are better but still restricted. Sent from my SAMSUNG Galaxy SIII using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer hvfrdave Posted February 2, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted February 2, 2014 I can't understand why Honda would still have a reduction in power in 1st & 2nd when you have the traction control switched on, what is the point. yes when the traction control is switched off, now I can understand that, just goes to show how basic the traction control is on the VFR1200. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dynajohn Posted February 2, 2014 Author Share Posted February 2, 2014 I can't understand why Honda would still have a reduction in power in 1st & 2nd when you have the traction control switched on, what is the point. yes when the traction control is switched off, now I can understand that, just goes to show how basic the traction control is on the VFR1200. Interesting question Dave. I never experienced the TC kicking in until I installed the ZBomb and then it was to stop the bike from wheelying in 1st gear, not from loss of traction. It is not a subtle reaction to the front wheel leaving the ground, it is like hitting a hard rev limiter which slams the front end back down. My assumption is that the ECU is monitoring the wheel speed of both wheels and when it sees a sudden difference it cuts power. Makes me wonder how suddenly it would react to a real loss of traction leaned over in a corner. I haven't tried deliberately spinning the rear tire on a wet surface to find out how the bike would react. Honda has been really slow to introduce sophisticated traction control or active handling on their sport bikes like virtually all the other major manufacturers have. The TC on the VFR is laughable compared to the KTRIC TC & active handling system on my 2012 ZX14R . Why, who the hell knows how Honda makes decisions these days. Once upon a time they led the industry in incorperating high tech into their motorcycles, not so much these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volfy Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 It's especially embarrassing for Honda, when a much smaller mfr like Aprilia, whose R&D budget is no doubt relatively tiny, has such an excellent APRC package that let's the rider dial in the exact amount of electronic intervention for the given situation. And they've had it going on 4 yrs now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crakerjac Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 I've found that smaller R&D departments are able to move MUCH quicker when developing new products. It feels like Honda has too many cooks in the kitchen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lshark Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 It's especially embarrassing for Honda, when a much smaller mfr like Aprilia, whose R&D budget is no doubt relatively tiny, has such an excellent APRC package that let's the rider dial in the exact amount of electronic intervention for the given situation. And they've had it going on 4 yrs now. Honda's booth at the IMS was about 1/4 the size of KTM's...doesn't seem like they care about bikes any more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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