rubbersidedown Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 With a DCT, I am (sadly) unable to use the Bazzaz Z-bomb fix so I was wondering if anybody has any thoughts as to whether a guy could just buy a 2012 OEM ECU from a Honda dealer and plug it into a 2010 to deal with the power/mapping issue? Might the lack of a TC switch make it not work? I suppose a guy might be able to wire in his own TC switch - which would not necessarily be a bad thing. At least it would be a Honda-developed fix without any weirdness like false gear indication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veefer800Canuck Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 I dunno, but with the 800s, Honda made the ECU plugs/wiring different to discourage swapping. Ask Kaldek, he knows all about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Already have my dealer contacting Honda and looking into the possibility of an ECU swap, and retrofit of the TC. As I have a good relationship with them, I trust that I'll be given any info if possible, and have asked for specifics to get to OEM level vs. the cost for me. Then I'll decide whether the cost is worth any benefit. Have not heard anything yet, so we'll see. The other option is a swap for a newer model, but I'm very reluctant to do that at this point. As stated in another related post on this subject it'd be "nice" if Honda would offer an "upgrade kit" for those of us who took the early plunge on their technology and to some who feel that they purchased a not fully baked product. Personally, I understand that this is the nature of the game in product development cycles and I love my VFR DCT regardless, but admit such an offering from Honda for an upgrade would go a very long way in owner loyalty for this and future motorcycles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandX Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Personally, I understand that this is the nature of the game in product development cycles and I love my VFR DCT regardless, but admit such an offering from Honda for an upgrade would go a very long way in owner loyalty for this and future motorcycles. I'd be REALLY surprised if Mr. H gives us the opportunity, but we can hope! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted February 4, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted February 4, 2012 If the bikes are both USA-spec (non HISS) and there were no major hardware revisions between 2010 and 2010, it should just plug in and go. For example it's possible to do a straight ECU swap between any USA model VFR800s in the year ranges of 2006-2010. You can also do the same with bikes 2002-2005, but you can't put a 2006 ECU in a 2005 bike without a wiring harness swap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vfrflanders Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 PGM-FI UNIT (ECM with ECU) Honda's PGM-FI (ProGraMmed Fuel Injection) unit is commonly better known as ECM ECU (Engine Control Module) (Electronic Control Unit) or ECU-integrated throttle body module for an electronic fuel injection system. From the information I gathered so far Honda produced at least 4 different PGM-FI units for the VFR-1200F model 2010/2011 (and 4 others for the DCT) USA PGM-FI-KEIHIN ED 38770-MGE-773 Honda part: 38770-MGE-773 127 kW (170 HP) / 10.000 rpm 129 Nm / 8.750 rpm Europe PGM-FI-KEIHIN ED, 38770-MGE-644 Honda part: 38770-MGE-644 127 kW (170 HP) / 10.000 rpm (95/1/EC) (ED-​type) 129 Nm / 8.750 rpm (95/1/EC) (ED-​type) France / Belgium PGM-FI-KEIHIN ED, 38770-MGE-623 83 kW (111 HP) / 9.500 rpm (95/1/EC-​ (F-​type) 115 Nm / 4.000 rpm (95/1/EC) (F-​type) Japan PGM-FI-KEIHIN ED, part number unknown 82 kW (111 HP) / 8.500 rpm 111 Nm / 6.000 rpm What are the differences between those PGM-FI's? Electronic Control Unit (ECU) The first thing what's different is the ECU (you only have to take a closer look at the specs to know the differences). Probably all PGM-FI's have the same ECU but with a different programming. Engine Control Module (ECM) Second, if you compare the 2010 european wiring diagram with a 2010 US wiring diagram you will find 2 other differences. - HISS (Honda Ignition Security System) - emission (more specific for the USA is the EVAP PURGE CONTROL SOLONOID VALVE) Are those PGM-FI's exchangeable on 2010/2011 models? On an modern motorcycle, like the VFR 1200, the EMC controls all the electronics on your motorcycle. If a part is missing/not connected or broken it will generate an error code (known by Honda as a DTC (Diagnostic Trouble Code) and an anoying alarm sound everytime you put the key in. Besides the error code, in most cases your motorcycle even won't start. In order the install a different PGM-FI unit you have to avoid that your PGM-FI produces error codes and still makes your motorcycle running. If you compare a 2010 european wiring diagram with a 2010 US wiring diagram we can see how those PGM-FI units are exchangeable (for USA readers - the wiring diagram on the forum is for the European VFR 1200). Remember, this a theoretical approach and we will only have confirmation until someone really tries this. USA/Canada > Europe This is a simple plug and play (and pray for the first one to do it). Although the European VFR 1200 doesn't have an EVAP PURGE CONTROL SOLONOID VALVE, it won't generate an error code (Phobe removed it without any problem). Even the HISS key can be used. Europe > USA/Canada European Honda motorcycles have HISS. Besides the PGM-FI unit you have to buy all HISS parts... Keep in mind that ALL parts for HISS need to be in place, or your bike won't start. Keep also in mind those keys are expensive and you can't buy them in the USA or Canada. Do you want to know more? http://www.cbrxx.com/engine-airbox-exhaust-fuel-delivery/4689-help-how-does-hiss-work.html Will those PGM-FI's be exchangeable between 2010/2011 and 2012 models? Once we have the wiring diagram, we'll know more. Although the ECU won't give a problem (the engine in the 2010/2011/2012 is the same), the configuration of the ECM will decide if they are interchangeable (what is integrated in the ECM and does it generate an error code (so that even the enigne won't start) if we put it in an 2010/2011 model) Let us hope Honda made is this time easy for 2010/2011 owners... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer crazybrother Posted January 21, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted January 21, 2013 Has anyone tried this out yet to see if it works? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted January 21, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted January 21, 2013 It could work as long as you were using bikes that don't have HISS, and if the ECU hardware revisions haven't changed. Case in point here is any 6th-gen is interchangeable but only between 2002-2005 models, and then only between 2006-2013 models, because the hardware and connectors changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V4 Rosso Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Has anyone tried this out yet to see if it works?Honda offered a remap for the 2010-11 VFR. Maybe it is the same map as the post 2011 map. You had your dealer reflash the ECU? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer crazybrother Posted January 21, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted January 21, 2013 Has anyone tried this out yet to see if it works?Honda offered a remap for the 2010-11 VFR. Maybe it is the same map as the post 2011 map. You had your dealer reflash the ECU? Not here in the States... Do you guy's get the full power or the restricted version? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crakerjac Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Isn't the dash different between the 2010/2012 models? I thought that the fuel indicator was different. If that is the case, would you need to swap out the instrument panel as well? Or does the ECU send a signal/voltage level to the instrument panel and the instrument panel handles how the indicators are displayed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V4 Rosso Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Not here in the States... Do you guy's get the full power or the restricted version?Full power. According to vfrflander's post, in Europe only France and Belgium get the restricted version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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