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Ordered my Bazzaz Z-Bomb today!


Should Honda derestrict the vfr1200?  

222 members have voted

  1. 1. Derestict 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gear?

    • DO NOT - leave as is.
    • DO - all VFR1200's
    • DO - only the VFR1200F NOT the DTC
    • DO - with real traction control


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Guest sanemancured

I ordered one - most of my surging and lagging issues were solved when I took the oem muffler off and replaced it with the leo vince but there is still a bit of lag in 2nd gear. I looked hard at the dutchgixxer mod but well Iike the gear indicator to work correctly - I am a bit anal about that. I just had a few issues when I started to pass a car in the mountains from a slow start 25 mph in 2nd gear and then I twisted the throttle and it lagged on me for bit - dont want that to happen anymore, nothing worse then pulling out into the other lane to go around a car and you get a little power lag! Of course it spooled up but it wasn't instant like it needs to be. The old girl 1998 never once did that to me!

It just seemed the fueling went into some kind of saver mode and had to be coaxed out of it to get the power on. It was worse with the flapper valve in the oem exhaust hated that - it did not help low rpm torque at all it just smothered it. It usually does not happen cause I tend to not let the bike rev so low or I am already spooled up before I try a pass. Honestly it has more passing power in 4th then 2nd sometimes.

Do you realise Miguel that the Z Bomb also gives incorrect gear display in 1st and 2nd?

Mine arrived today and I'll fit it once the bike is through the initial service.

Peter

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  • Forum CEO

I ordered one - most of my surging and lagging issues were solved when I took the oem muffler off and replaced it with the leo vince but there is still a bit of lag in 2nd gear. I looked hard at the dutchgixxer mod but well Iike the gear indicator to work correctly - I am a bit anal about that. I just had a few issues when I started to pass a car in the mountains from a slow start 25 mph in 2nd gear and then I twisted the throttle and it lagged on me for bit - dont want that to happen anymore, nothing worse then pulling out into the other lane to go around a car and you get a little power lag! Of course it spooled up but it wasn't instant like it needs to be. The old girl 1998 never once did that to me!

It just seemed the fueling went into some kind of saver mode and had to be coaxed out of it to get the power on. It was worse with the flapper valve in the oem exhaust hated that - it did not help low rpm torque at all it just smothered it. It usually does not happen cause I tend to not let the bike rev so low or I am already spooled up before I try a pass. Honestly it has more passing power in 4th then 2nd sometimes.

Do you realise Miguel that the Z Bomb also gives incorrect gear display in 1st and 2nd?

Mine arrived today and I'll fit it once the bike is through the initial service.

Peter

NO - Damnit, I looked for a description! Well I dont have to cut more wires on the girl.

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Guest sanemancured

Well the bike only has 2 gears anyway, the right one and the wrong one :)

As Dutchgixxer explained, getting the gear indicator to read correctly isn't a straightforward task.

Edited by sanemancured
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I did manage to get the gear indicator right even with the mod applied. I have decoded the link between the ecu the tach unit and the gearposition switch. It needed a pic processor and some C++ programming to get it working.

Dutchgixxer, would you post schematic / instructions for gear indicator?

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Guest sanemancured

I did manage to get the gear indicator right even with the mod applied. I have decoded the link between the ecu the tach unit and the gearposition switch. It needed a pic processor and some C++ programming to get it working.

Dutchgixxer, would you post schematic / instructions for gear indicator?

It's already here Vlad.

Peter

Edited by sanemancured
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I did manage to get the gear indicator right even with the mod applied. I have decoded the link between the ecu the tach unit and the gearposition switch. It needed a pic processor and some C++ programming to get it working.

Dutchgixxer, would you post schematic / instructions for gear indicator?

It's already here Vlad.

http://www.vfrdiscus...t-and-2nd-gear/

Peter

Peter - thanks. however that's a schema to fool ECU and de-restrict 1st / 2nd gears power limit. I was asking for a schematic of fixing gear indicator display to show the correct gear, instead of "3" for either 1st or 2nd gear....

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Guest sanemancured

I did manage to get the gear indicator right even with the mod applied. I have decoded the link between the ecu the tach unit and the gearposition switch. It needed a pic processor and some C++ programming to get it working.

Dutchgixxer, would you post schematic / instructions for gear indicator?

It's already here Vlad.

http://www.vfrdiscus...t-and-2nd-gear/

Peter

Peter - thanks. however that's a schema to fool ECU and de-restrict 1st / 2nd gears power limit. I was asking for a schematic of fixing gear indicator display to show the correct gear, instead of "3" for either 1st or 2nd gear....

Aha.

However the ECU processes the signal from the GPS to the display then that'll be what needs to be done I suspect.

I'd love to know too.

Peter

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Guest toysrme

I did manage to get the gear indicator right even with the mod applied. I have decoded the link between the ecu the tach unit and the gearposition switch. It needed a pic processor and some C++ programming to get it working.

Dutchgixxer, would you post schematic / instructions for gear indicator?

It's already here Vlad.

http://www.vfrdiscus...t-and-2nd-gear/

Peter

Peter - thanks. however that's a schema to fool ECU and de-restrict 1st / 2nd gears power limit. I was asking for a schematic of fixing gear indicator display to show the correct gear, instead of "3" for either 1st or 2nd gear....

Aha.

However the ECU processes the signal from the GPS to the display then that'll be what needs to be done I suspect.

I'd love to know too.

Peter

This problem has been solved on other bikes. They're called 'fuel cut eliminators' and I'd posted a thread in this forum regarding a vendor that makes them that would like to have a go at the VFR1200.

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/70326-fuel-cut-eliminator/

Edited by toysrme
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Guest sanemancured

I did manage to get the gear indicator right even with the mod applied. I have decoded the link between the ecu the tach unit and the gearposition switch. It needed a pic processor and some C++ programming to get it working.

Dutchgixxer, would you post schematic / instructions for gear indicator?

It's already here Vlad.

http://www.vfrdiscus...t-and-2nd-gear/

Peter

Peter - thanks. however that's a schema to fool ECU and de-restrict 1st / 2nd gears power limit. I was asking for a schematic of fixing gear indicator display to show the correct gear, instead of "3" for either 1st or 2nd gear....

Aha.

However the ECU processes the signal from the GPS to the display then that'll be what needs to be done I suspect.

I'd love to know too.

Peter

This problem has been solved on other bikes. They're called 'fuel cut eliminators' and I'd posted a thread in this forum regarding a vendor that makes them that would like to have a go at the VFR1200.

http://www.vfrdiscus...cut-eliminator/

I'm sure that fuel cutting is an issue on the VFR (as it is with most if not all FI vehicles) but it's also, and more significantly I feel, severely restricted at the lower rpms in 1st and 2nd gear. The wireless throttle is apparently 'detuned' by about 60% in these conditions. The fuel cut eliminator may help overall but it won't overcome this particular restriction.

Peter

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I put this Z Bomb on a couple weeks ago... I was hoping for some umpffff.... Unintended wheel spin? LOL!!! It sure didn't do much for me, but maybe i run it too hard already.

If you want unintended wheelspin, you should have gotten an inline 4...

I must say though, this vfr1200 is one smooth as butter riding machine. I hit 140mph, and it was smooooooth...

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Guest toysrme

I did manage to get the gear indicator right even with the mod applied. I have decoded the link between the ecu the tach unit and the gearposition switch. It needed a pic processor and some C++ programming to get it working.

Dutchgixxer, would you post schematic / instructions for gear indicator?

It's already here Vlad.

http://www.vfrdiscus...t-and-2nd-gear/

Peter

Peter - thanks. however that's a schema to fool ECU and de-restrict 1st / 2nd gears power limit. I was asking for a schematic of fixing gear indicator display to show the correct gear, instead of "3" for either 1st or 2nd gear....

Aha.

However the ECU processes the signal from the GPS to the display then that'll be what needs to be done I suspect.

I'd love to know too.

Peter

This problem has been solved on other bikes. They're called 'fuel cut eliminators' and I'd posted a thread in this forum regarding a vendor that makes them that would like to have a go at the VFR1200.

http://www.vfrdiscus...cut-eliminator/

I'm sure that fuel cutting is an issue on the VFR (as it is with most if not all FI vehicles) but it's also, and more significantly I feel, severely restricted at the lower rpms in 1st and 2nd gear. The wireless throttle is apparently 'detuned' by about 60% in these conditions. The fuel cut eliminator may help overall but it won't overcome this particular restriction.

Peter

<repeat from other thread>

The device is called a Fuel Cut Eliminator based on the problem they were originally designed to solve. The functionality has expanded to cover applications like this.

For example, the Bazzazz unit just changes the wiring to fool the ECM into using the 3rd gear map. Ivan's FCE's do this electronically to use the 5th gear map.

Could they make one for the VFR? I'd like to see them give it a try because I just put money down on a DCT model.

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Guest sanemancured

You can keep repeating all you want, you can even try shouting (I'm told it works with us 'foreigners' :) ). I'm aware of the FCE and what it seeks to achieve. Fuel cut elimination will smooth out the throttle response no doubt but that really isn't the issue here. Okay you talk about expanding to cover applications 'like this'. You then go on to talk about 3rd gear map and 5th gear map.There is only the ONE map (so the 3rd gear map and the 5th gear map will be one and the same). Honda have used the wireless technology incorporated in the throttle mechanism to restrict the bike. In 1st, 2nd and 6th gear under certain conditions (rpm in the 1st and 2nd gear situation) the relationship between the twistgrip and the throttle body butterflies is altered. This is where the restriction comes from and this restriction is not due in any way to fuel cut.

Anything that piggybacks the ECU and addresses the situation that is more than a simply re-connect won't be a FCE, although of course it may incorporate one.

Of course a simpler way to overcome the restriction to to reconfigure the wireless throttle to be linear at all times and in all gears. A separate FCE would then have a place. In fact FCE's are no doubt a valid consideration in addition to derestriction.

Peter

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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest sanemancured

My initial service was done last Thursday and the Garmin harness is fitted.

I popped into the garage last night and took 10 minutes to fit the Z bomb. It was a bit of a fiddle to get the new males into the existing female but it clicked into place and it's all neatly tucked away.

Sun is shining this morning and we'll be out soon. Will report back.

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Guest sanemancured

I did about 150 miles yesterday with the Bazzaz fitted. Roads ranged from single track with lots of tight bends and gravel to fast sweepers. I noticed straightaway that the bike seemed more normal in it's 1st and 2nd gear pickup especially compared to 3rd. Riding some really gnarly stuff that challenged the Viffer a bit the reinstated torque never gave a moments problem.

Bike is simply nicer to ride, that's it.

Langdale02-L.jpg

Peter

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Ordered mine over the phone 5 minutes ago!!!!!!!!! Can't wait to plug it in.

They are having problems with their website ordering right now so you have to order over the phone.

I found it to be a real non event. You will definately not unleash the beast. No unintended wheelspin or wheelies! It is a really fun bike to ride though...

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  • 3 weeks later...

Does anyone know if the gear indicator issue has been corrected or if it's being addressed. It seems this modification has value, but I'm hoping the existing (gear indicator) functionality isn't compromised permanently. Thank you.

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I don't think the gear indicator issue has been fixed, and there's probably not a great deal of push to do so. I would personally like to see it, as well. Having said that, I ordered the z-bomb last week, and am looking forward to riding with it installed.

I've felt the "hole" in second. Not good. Equally irritating is the jerkiness in first. I thought it might just be me, initially. You know, not being smooth enough with the throttle. Maybe it's a bit of both!

I'll report my findings once it's here and installed. Looking forward to it, but I am a bit intimidated by the thought of unintended wheelies. Last time I did one intentionally was on a Schwinn in 1976.

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Guest sanemancured

I don't think that the gear indication issue is an easy fix, certainly not one that Bazzaz will do I suspect.

If you're using mph and not kph there's a helpful hint. In 2nd revs and speed match just about exactly. i.e. 10mph @ 1,000 rpm, 30mph and 3,000 rpm etc. In 1st it's easy to tell methinks. In 3rd revs and mph don't match and in 4th and up it says so.

The really useful one to my mind is 6th gear.

All bikes only have two gears any way, the right gear and the wrong gear :)

Peter

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The gear indicator issue is a NON ISSUE. Don't look at it and ride the bike by feel like we used to do when they had kick starters.

Hands down the best money I have ever spent on the bike

I've been riding slipper clutches for years (Aprilia Mille & Futura), but I still don't trust an unexpected 1st gear down shift when it's not expected. I've done it once on this bike already, with the gear indicator working, and thankfully with not even a glimmer of mishap, but that doesn't mean it might not cause an issue next time.

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I got mine a week ago and tested it immediately - very noticeable difference in 1st and 2nd gear, no power drop, no jerking. Also the sound improved a lot, it gave it more roaring I guess because the valve opens more often. I don't know about unintended wheelies but at one point in 2nd gear I was very close to slipping off my seat and falling behind the bike while it was accelerating. :-) I would definitely recommend the Z-Bomb to a friend!

Edited by emko
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I got mine a week ago and tested it immediately - very noticeable difference in 1st and 2nd gear, no power drop, no jerking. Also the sound improved a lot, it gave it more roaring I guess because the valve opens more often. I don't know about unintended wheelies but at one point in 2nd gear I was very close to slipping off my seat and falling behind the bike while it was accelerating. :-) I would definitely recommend the Z-Bomb to a friend!

I think it'll be a good addition. I've never been one to "stunt" a bike, but I do appreciate pure power and performance (including speed)

My adversion to wheelies is based on several things, I suppose. Not the least is that I remind myself of Danny Glover's line in the Lethal Weapon movies; "Im getting too old for this sh#t!" lol

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I've been riding slipper clutches for years (Aprilia Mille & Futura), but I still don't trust an unexpected 1st gear down shift when it's not expected. I've done it once on this bike already, with the gear indicator working, and thankfully with not even a glimmer of mishap, but that doesn't mean it might not cause an issue next time.

Our bike does have a slipper clutch as well. I tested it once (in the 1st 30 miles of ownership). Works good. Lasts long time.

Mark

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