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FireHorse

FI light woes are a thing of the past!

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A very big thank you to this forum for helping me figure out my FI light problem!! Turns out my gremlin was in the orange grounding block tied up in the wiring harness.

Not sure how it began, maybe with an old battery putting a strain on my charging system, but whatever the case, I fried an R/R and stator not too long ago. Replaced the toasted parts but was still having issues with the FI light coming on intermittently and the motor crapping out. Bought the VFRness and installed that which made the problem less severe, but alas, still a problem. After doing my research, I finally cut into the wiring harness and found a very toasty grounding block (pics attached). Promptly cut that out and re-connected the wires and TAH-DAH, no more FI light, no more surging, no more cutting out. Can enjoy the ride once again!! So, thank you to VFRD for helping me figure that one out... isn't it nice to read a success story about the FI light problem...?

Something to take note of: if you're looking into this and find the same problem, keeping in mind that the ground block has 2 groups of wiring that it connects, one has 8 wires, the other has 6. KEEP THESE GROUPS TOGETHER when you re-connect. In each group there is one wire that goes to the main grounding point on the bike, the other wires are grounds for various components...

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Looks like it got a little warm in there.........

Any evidence of moisture/dirt/corrosion? 5th gen wiring is barely adequate at best so it doesn't take much to really screw things up.

Exactly where in the harness was this block?

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Can you show us exactly where the connector is located in the wiring harness?

I have an intermittent FI light problem and would like to have a close look at the component you describe.

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I believe its on the left side, even with front seat, behind side plastic.

Great. If I ever finish tiling the bathroom, I'll have a look. :laughing6-hehe:

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So electrical problems on these bikes seem to be from:

1. Over voltage/amps

2. Loose fittings (arching)

3. Maybe too small gauge wires used in harness?

4. Too many frickin connections. LOL

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I believe its on the left side, even with front seat, behind side plastic.

OK I thought I'd seen one like that when I was doing my RR work. It's got some tape over it on the main harness near the RR. Mine looks OK, but I'll keep an eye on it. :fing02:

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That grounding block is located on the left side of the bike, wrapped in the wiring harness about a foot in front of the R/R... when you look at the wiring harness, you'll see a "block" shape wrapped up in the tape. Cut the tape and check it out...

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My FI light has been acting strange too. It will be off, then kind of on(glowing dully), go off and on with the turn signal, and most recently staying on almost all the time. Today my bike stalled at several stops and was surging/cutting out at about 5500-6000 rpm. I am going to check grounds again and that block too.

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My FI light has been acting strange too. It will be off, then kind of on(glowing dully), go off and on with the turn signal, and most recently staying on almost all the time. Today my bike stalled at several stops and was surging/cutting out at about 5500-6000 rpm. I am going to check grounds again and that block too.

My symptoms too. Post up your efforts to cure it, pics too if you can!

Mucho appreciado!

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I had a scare a few days ago. Starting my bike after work ready to go home, i noticed by Fi light is on. I switched the bike off and started her again. No difference. Nothing else seemed wrong and the bike rode without any problems all the way home. I had a look in the service manuel and saw something about counting the amount of blinks, etc. It all loked very complicated so i left it. The next morning all was fine again. Do i need to worry?

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MY bike was having random electrical gremlins. One of the things I did was to pull that plug apart many moons ago. It was clean, pristine, no signs of corrosion. But having gone to all the trouble of getting it apart, I cut it off, wrapped all the wires (and another fat wire to the frame) together with clean copper wire around them, soldered it into one big clump, and heat-shrinked it. Made no real difference, but at least I could forget about it.

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So awesome that you found the fix for your bike!

Thanks for posting!

I have the FI light going on also. I rode down to the MotoGP race in Laguna and the bike never missed a beat. When I put the brakes on the light would go out but come back on later until it got to the point where it stayed on (the brake lights work).

Later I was riding up in the Kootenays when the bike began to sputter and quit. I smelt a burnt rubber smell from wiring insulation I would guess some where under the tank and plastics. The bike started up after a short time and did the same thing a little while later. I managed to ride the 6 hours home after the last time it quit without a problem (thank you lord, and I am not religious).

I have looked for heat damaged wires, used my nose to sniff out any burnt rubber smells and looked at the grounding block you have mentioned and it looks fine along with all the other plugs that I have uncovered.

I plan to check out all the grounds on the bike and really check into the braking system for shorts.

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I have had a similar problem going on. My fi light kind of flutters, not fully on just dim. Then at random intervals but always riding, never at a stop the FI light comes on and the engine dies. I cycle the ignition key and it fires right back up. If any one has a tip PLEASE let me know!!!! I check the orange block and everything looks fine. I also checked charging voltage and battery resting voltage.

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This seems like a pretty common problem.

I have similar symptoms to what most of you listed.

Seems to be on cold in the mornings, riding onto the motorway - wide open throttle, the engine cuts out very briefly a few times at around 6000-8000RPM. FI lamp lights up. I back off and the problem doesn't happen again that day.

The bike is new to me, so I guess I too can start trawling through the wiring looking for dodgy grounds, etc. To make matters worse, it has an alarm (SOOO MUCH HATE for those things...) and has slow starter motor cranking. I've changed the battery, which seems to have helped a little. I still blame the Alarm for drawing current, maybe more than its fair share... But the engine cutting out is now the most annoying.

Thanks for your posts, they are helping - and hopefully I too can contribute something when I find it!

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Guest Snowdog

This seems like a pretty common problem.

I have similar symptoms to what most of you listed.

Seems to be on cold in the mornings, riding onto the motorway - wide open throttle, the engine cuts out very briefly a few times at around 6000-8000RPM. FI lamp lights up. I back off and the problem doesn't happen again that day.

The bike is new to me, so I guess I too can start trawling through the wiring looking for dodgy grounds, etc. To make matters worse, it has an alarm (SOOO MUCH HATE for those things...) and has slow starter motor cranking. I've changed the battery, which seems to have helped a little. I still blame the Alarm for drawing current, maybe more than its fair share... But the engine cutting out is now the most annoying.

Thanks for your posts, they are helping - and hopefully I too can contribute something when I find it!

Where abouts in the UK are you?

.

As said, get the earth block out, give it a good clean and pack with Silicon grease (dielectric is an American term I believe). If you are able, strip out the alarm they are nothing but a PITA.

@ VFR99er, Still sounds like an earth block short.. Get in, clean it really well and do as above. This needs checking regulaly, it's not a do once and leave.

HTH.

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Where abouts in the UK are you?

.

As said, get the earth block out, give it a good clean and pack with Silicon grease (dielectric is an American term I believe). If you are able, strip out the alarm they are nothing but a PITA.

@ VFR99er, Still sounds like an earth block short.. Get in, clean it really well and do as above. This needs checking regulaly, it's not a do once and leave.

HTH.

I'm located in Warwickshire. You? Inner-London?

Thanks for the info, alarm is definitely coming out, and I will also measure voltage across ground locations, lets see if we can find any dodgy connections. I am also suspecting the Reg/Rec, this died in a Gen5 VFR I had a few years back and drained the battery, and now on the way home this bike died about a mile from home. Not happy! I bump-started it and made it home OK, this seems just like the regulator problem I've had in the past.

Hmmm, I have alot of work to do on electrical on this bike...

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Guest Snowdog

Yep East London, not to far from the new Olympic Park.

for a new Rec/Rec use David Silver spares, easy to find via google and buy the uprated one. About £99 at the mo' ISTR.

This may help, I've copied it from another site I'm a member of

Symptoms.

1. The FI warning light glows dimly.

2. The FI warning light can go brighter and dimmer at random.

3. The FI warning light can act in sympathy with the indicators and brake lights.

4. The FI warning light can react to switching between dip and main beam.

5. The engine misfires, splutters and even cuts out when the FI warning light illuminates.

6. The FI warning light doesn't display any fault code.

The above symptoms can tend to get worse after you've been riding for a while.

Possible Cause.

On this model of VFR, many components earth wires all come together into an earth block before they then connect to an earth point on the frame. huh.gif For example, there are 12 wires coming into the block from different components/systems and only 2 wires going out to the main earth point on the frame. If there's any resistance built up in this earth block, the components will try and earth back through another component - hence the FI warning light glowing. The symptoms can get worse the longer you ride for because the point of high resistance in the earth block heats up and the resistance increases. angry.gif

Things to check.

The easiest option is, when the FI warning light is glowing, is to turn the lights off. This is because the lights are trying to earth through the FI ECM. If the FI warning light stops glowing, then your culprit is most probably the earth block.

Location of the Earth Block.

The earth block in question is located on the LH side of the bike, just forward of the Voltage Regulator/Rectifier, you'll find it taped into the loom. When you remove the tape you'll find a red/orange plastic block about 30 - 40 mm square.

The Repair/Fix.

The repair or fix can go one of two ways, it'll either be easy or a real pig. My luck had it that it was the latter. banghead.gif

1. Ease the cap off the earth block or open the lid to the cap. Inside this you'll see a series of prongs - one set of prongs link six connections together, the other set link eight connections together.

2. If the prongs and the connector block look clean, then just spray contact cleaner into it, reassemble it and give it a try.

If this fixes it, then you've had the easy fix. thumbsup.gif

If the above hasn't fixed it, huh.gif then read on - all is not lost.

1. If you open the lid of the earth block cap, you'll clearly see the backs of the links. The FI, tail lights, brake lights and indicators all earth through the link with 8 prongs.

2. Remove the links from inside the cap and put them straight into the earth block, just make sure you get the right link in the right place. Then close the cap lid and refit the cap over the top of the links. This'll push the links further into the earth block and may give a better contact. Now give it another try. scratchchin.gif

If this fixes it, then you're doing alright. smiley.gif

If that hasn't fixed it, then life gets fun.

1. Remove the cap to the earth block.

2. With a multimeter, do a resistance check from FI ECM connection B1 back to the earth block. This'll show you which wire earths the FI ECM.

3. Cut the wire you've identified where it goes into the earth block.

4. Cut a suitable length of fresh wire that'll reach from the cut end of the FI ECM's earth wire to the bikes wiring loom's main earth point on RH side of the frame (roughly where you're right knee/leg goes).

5. Solder one end of the new wire onto the FI ECM's earth wire and weatherproof the join. Then crimp a ring tongue connector to the other end.

6. Remove the earth point bolt and add the new FI ECM's extended earth to the earth connections already there and refit the bolt. This gives the FI ECM it's own dedicated earth so nothing will be trying to earth back through it. applause.gif

At this point you have a choice.

One option is refit the prongs and cap to the earth block, but the problem still remains, it just won't affect the FI warning light anymore.

The other, and permanent fix option, is to cut the other 7 wires to the eight pronged link (shown by red arrow below) and solder them together (shown by yellow arrow below) - that's the route I took in the end. Some silicone sealant over the resulting blob of solder keeps the weather at bay.

HTH.

Thanks to John (aka Odie) for the above info.

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Thanks for the info Snowdog, I'll look at doing that as one of my checks/fixes.

I thought that cleaning and reassembling the orange block with good components from another wiring harnesss would do, but maybe I need to beef up my grounds anyhow to rid the problem for good.

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Once more thanks for the info, I had a look at the earth connector, it looks immaculate. I cleaned it out and also made a few multimeter checks. A ground termination problem on a car a few years back that gave me an idea. Checking for any voltage difference between earth pins and the ground location, and across the earth pins themselves can show up any grounding issues. Unfortunately I didn't find anything, but then the FI light wasn't on either. Maybe this could be of use to someone else sometime...

Next job is to isolate at least the FI ground from the others (in my mind all the lights can go on a common).

But now I have a greater problem; charge loss is getting worse, off full-battery a 15 minute ride drains the battery enough not to be able to start the engine. Oddly, if I wait 20 minutes, there is just enough juice to start it up (and limp home). Anyone know why? Is it because the battery electrolyte level is depleted, then takes time to come recover? Anyway, a new reg-rec is now a necessity. Time to ring David Silver...

On these crappy std reg-rec's I read ages ago that their biggest problem is they overheat and die with time. Has anyone on this forum tried to cool them better - with any results?

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Guest Snowdog

Once more thanks for the info, I had a look at the earth connector, it looks immaculate. I cleaned it out and also made a few multimeter checks. A ground termination problem on a car a few years back that gave me an idea. Checking for any voltage difference between earth pins and the ground location, and across the earth pins themselves can show up any grounding issues. Unfortunately I didn't find anything, but then the FI light wasn't on either. Maybe this could be of use to someone else sometime...

Next job is to isolate at least the FI ground from the others (in my mind all the lights can go on a common).

But now I have a greater problem; charge loss is getting worse, off full-battery a 15 minute ride drains the battery enough not to be able to start the engine. Oddly, if I wait 20 minutes, there is just enough juice to start it up (and limp home). Anyone know why? Is it because the battery electrolyte level is depleted, then takes time to come recover? Anyway, a new reg-rec is now a necessity. Time to ring David Silver...

On these crappy std reg-rec's I read ages ago that their biggest problem is they overheat and die with time. Has anyone on this forum tried to cool them better - with any results?

The upgraded R/R from DSS solves many of the overheating problems. They are around £99 though :angry: make sure you get the uprated one for the Fi, I tried a VTEC R/R and it blew after 300 miles

some people have wired in little CPU fans to cool thee R/R.

I know one chap who has used the R/R from an R1, which, as far as I know, needed a few alterations, but has run well.

The charging loss is classic R/R territory. Running without lights keeps just enough charge in the battery to start the engine.

I have had two R/R failures whilst in the Alps and got home OK without using lights (interesting frangerglish conversation with a French copper " Le Regulator-rectifier ist Kaput mon ami":biggrin:)

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A follow up... I could not find any real smoking gun.

I changed out the R/R, installed the Vfrness bundle from wiremybike.com and added extra grounds to the frame. One from an attachment bolt to the sub frame on the R/R and one from the ground block I installed to the Vfrness bundle.

Problems gone!

nope, its come back 8(

fixed with help from others see

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/71640-fi-light/

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Cut a suitable length of fresh wire that'll reach from the cut end of the FI ECM's earth wire to the bikes wiring loom's main earth point on RH side of the frame (roughly where you're right knee/leg goes).

5. Solder one end of the new wire onto the FI ECM's earth wire and weatherproof the join. Then crimp a ring tongue connector to the other end.

6. Remove the earth point bolt and add the new FI ECM's extended earth to the earth connections already there and refit the bolt. This gives the FI ECM it's own dedicated earth so nothing will be trying to earth back through it. applause.gif

Oh yeah - I forgot I did this too, when I soldered all my (totally pristine and uncorroded) earths together and added another earth. I found the ECM's earth wire, and added another earth to that.

I still have an intermitten miss I've got to track down (if I can ever be bothered). It's either spark plugs or their wirethingies or a valve or an injector or two or something else. I'm hoping the bike will just blow up, crash, burst into flames and die so I don't have to do any actual work...

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