Member Contributer tbzep Posted May 10, 2006 Member Contributer Share Posted May 10, 2006 All the crap about Ford and Firestone..... IMHO it was driver error. When was the last time you checked your tire pressure? Low PSI + HOt PAvement = Tire failer. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Incorrect. I had two of the four OEM Firestones on my wife's 1996 break belts and vibrate like mad. When I pulled the tires off, you could see and feel the knots at the broken belts. I always keep tires inflated properly. Unfortunately, I got rid of the tires before the news stories broke and I didn't get any money from it. The tires probably had a good 30k miles left in them. Funny how it was only one manufacturer and one period of time. I guess only Firestone owners don't know how to keep tires inflated properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BusyLittleShop Posted May 10, 2006 Member Contributer Share Posted May 10, 2006 I was at the local Dealer that sponsers Track days, they told me that I would be insane to ride my Metzler Z6's at the track. With only 2500 Miles on them, i decided that I would wait to do a track day, untill I was ready for new tires. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Track promoters may require tires with at least 90% tread life... but thats to satisfy a lawyer requirement... To stay up right depends 100% on your technique... if they are good you may run tires with 2500 or more miles on them with no problems... (most amateur racers do)... but if they are bad no tire may save you... common cause of track days crashes are turning the bike with too much front brake... Track riders are faced with the same 11 questions as do street riders... Where do the brakes go on... Where do the brakes go off... Where does the throttle come back on... Where is the bike pointed once fully leaned over... Where do you finish a turn... Where do you downshift... How much lean angle will you use... How many (if any) steering corrections will you make... How quickly will you have to steer the bike... How much speed can you approach the turn with... How quickly should I apply the throttle... Rossi is a master of getting all 11 objectives right 100% of the time... regardless of his tire's condition... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ULEWZ Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 AT $200 RETAIL FOR A NEW AV46?! YEAH, YOU CAN CALL ME CHEAP! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> So what do you suppose new plastic, mirrors, pegs, and bar ends will cost? I assume you have medical insurance, so I didn't factor that in. Good luck passing tech inspection at the track with a plug. If they see it, you will not be allowed to ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer chris2992 Posted May 10, 2006 Member Contributer Share Posted May 10, 2006 Incorrect. I had two of the four OEM Firestones on my wife's 1996 break belts and vibrate like mad. When I pulled the tires off, you could see and feel the knots at the broken belts. I always keep tires inflated properly. Unfortunately, I got rid of the tires before the news stories broke and I didn't get any money from it. The tires probably had a good 30k miles left in them. Funny how it was only one manufacturer and one period of time. I guess only Firestone owners don't know how to keep tires inflated properly. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> :offtopic: Firestone was able to pass some of the blame off onto ford for the failures. Ford was recommending to run a PSI that was lower than was firestone recommended. Thus heating the sidewall and popping cords and bursting tires. I believe that after research 85% of the failed tires that were tested, showed signs of under inflation. Then a national test was conducted that 75% of vehicles had 1 or more tires under inflated (all makes and all brands of tires). With this certified study, it is much harder to hold the tire maker accountable for a tire failure. Also, way more than half of the ford failures took place in the much warmer southern states, I believe Texas had the highest number of failures. Texas also has the largest percentage of tire failures per car driven of the 50 states. My father works for Continental N.A. and they have many suits that they win on grounds of under inflation. There are always going to be a few tires that make it past inspection that fail in the field, and you are likely to see them happen on the same vehicle. Most manufactures, especially ford, want matched sets (including full size spare) of tires for new vehicles. When there is a problem with a tire, it usually happens back to back causing a string of tires to be bad, this would mean that a matched pair would likely include more than one of the bad tires. I could explain this for hours, but It will still be as confusing as mud, just keep the tires inflated, and only use patches or plugs if necessarcy. And if you have a defective tire, keep it and take it to were you bought it, they will take care of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer chris2992 Posted May 10, 2006 Member Contributer Share Posted May 10, 2006 Incorrect. I had two of the four OEM Firestones on my wife's 1996 break belts and vibrate like mad. When I pulled the tires off, you could see and feel the knots at the broken belts. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Oh yea, the Ford/Firestone problem was not with cords breaking and causing bulges in the sidewall. That was likely just a defective tire or 2, so air pressure or any other factor likely had no bearing on the problem. The Ford/Firestone problem was with the Tread pack separating from the caracas due to excessive heat. One way to solve the problem is to buy tires in this order: 1. Michelin 2. Continental 3. all the other brands. Michelin has by far and away the best production techniques and QC group, Conti is working on it, but not quite there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer tbzep Posted May 10, 2006 Member Contributer Share Posted May 10, 2006 :offtopic: Firestone was able to pass some of the blame off onto ford for the failures. Ford was recommending to run a PSI that was lower than was firestone recommended. Thus heating the sidewall and popping cords and bursting tires. I believe that after research 85% of the failed tires that were tested, showed signs of under inflation. Then a national test was conducted that 75% of vehicles had 1 or more tires under inflated (all makes and all brands of tires). With this certified study, it is much harder to hold the tire maker accountable for a tire failure. Also, way more than half of the ford failures took place in the much warmer southern states, I believe Texas had the highest number of failures. Texas also has the largest percentage of tire failures per car driven of the 50 states. My father works for Continental N.A. and they have many suits that they win on grounds of under inflation. There are always going to be a few tires that make it past inspection that fail in the field, and you are likely to see them happen on the same vehicle. Most manufactures, especially ford, want matched sets (including full size spare) of tires for new vehicles. When there is a problem with a tire, it usually happens back to back causing a string of tires to be bad, this would mean that a matched pair would likely include more than one of the bad tires. I could explain this for hours, but It will still be as confusing as mud, just keep the tires inflated, and only use patches or plugs if necessarcy. And if you have a defective tire, keep it and take it to were you bought it, they will take care of you. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You are correct that underinflation may lead to these failures, however, the recall was not bogus. I see underinflated tires on vehicles all the time, yet that large production run of Firestones had a much higher failure rate and were recalled. 1. I kept my tires inflated to Firestone specs, not what Ford said, so that factor had nothing to do with me. 2. My tires were OEM and Ford didn't do crap for me. A couple of months later, the info hit the news and shortly thereafter the recall went into effect...too late for me. 3. I see many many underinflated tires on the road. It's probably safe to say that the majority of the tires out on the roads today are underinflated. Only Firestone had the major recall, so I still say that the recall was not bogus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 So what do you suppose new plastic, mirrors, pegs, and bar ends will cost? I assume you have medical insurance, so I didn't factor that in. Good luck passing tech inspection at the track with a plug. If they see it, you will not be allowed to ride. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks for the kind words of encouragement. <_< As I said, this is my first track day, so I don't know the procedure or protocol for getting my bike ready for track day. That's why I directed my question to this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer chris2992 Posted May 10, 2006 Member Contributer Share Posted May 10, 2006 Read my second post just after the first one TBZEP, Firestone definitely had a large problem, but it was amplified by fords request to run a lower than acceptable tire pressure in a faulty tire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ULEWZ Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 Thanks for the kind words of encouragement. <_< As I said, this is my first track day, so I don't know the procedure or protocol for getting my bike ready for track day. That's why I directed my question to this forum. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I callz em like I seez em. Got to pay to play me thinks. Don't cheap out on the leathers either. Not that you will go down, but it happens at least 2 times per day from what I have experienced. Sometimes more. Not trying to scare you, just telling it like it is. You will have more fun at a track day and gain more experience than you ever will on the street. I was just concerned with your tire problem and noted that $200 is cheap insurance. In practice, you will find the tire for much less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 I was just concerned with your tire problem and noted that $200 is cheap insurance. In practice, you will find the tire for much less. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah, it would be a much better deal to get tires online. I usually used American Moto Tire where I could get the front and back for almost $200, but since I need it now, I had to go to the shop and pick one up, dammit. I'm just bitching because I'm a young single guy, with a measley income and I just can't afford to just drop that kind of chedder on a moments notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer tbzep Posted May 10, 2006 Member Contributer Share Posted May 10, 2006 Oh yea, the Ford/Firestone problem was not with cords breaking and causing bulges in the sidewall. That was likely just a defective tire or 2, so air pressure or any other factor likely had no bearing on the problem. The Ford/Firestone problem was with the Tread pack separating from the caracas due to excessive heat. One way to solve the problem is to buy tires in this order:1. Michelin 2. Continental 3. all the other brands. Michelin has by far and away the best production techniques and QC group, Conti is working on it, but not quite there. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I never said anything about the sidewalls. The deformities were at the tread. There weren't any deformities on the outside sidewall. There could have been on the inside, but I didn't have to go that far to see that there was a problem. As far as buying in that order, we have Michelin LTX's on it now, but these were OEM's and I'm not to fond of the idea of removing brand new tires to keep something like that from happening. BTW, what brands does Continental manufacture tires for other than their own? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer tbzep Posted May 10, 2006 Member Contributer Share Posted May 10, 2006 Yeah, it would be a much better deal to get tires online. I usually used American Moto Tire where I could get the front and back for almost $200, but since I need it now, I had to go to the shop and pick one up, dammit. I'm just bitching because I'm a young single guy, with a measley income and I just can't afford to just drop that kind of chedder on a moments notice. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Your spending money won't increase if you are a young married guy, so be happy. (Unless you marry a doctor or lawyer, etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer The Big Sur Posted May 10, 2006 Member Contributer Share Posted May 10, 2006 Change the tire with a fresh one for your track day and save the repaired one for the road. At least that 's what I am planning to do in two weeks that I am attending mine. I don't think you want to have your mind on the rear tire while riding in the track for the first time, do you? Since it's your first time, your brain will probably be overloaded by all the new information. Keep peace of mind. cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BusyLittleShop Posted May 10, 2006 Member Contributer Share Posted May 10, 2006 Thanks for the kind words of encouragement. <_< As I said, this is my first track day, so I don't know the procedure or protocol for getting my bike ready for track day. That's why I directed my question to this forum. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> For some riders tire plugs are unsafe... they would spend too much attention on the plug and not enough on where they're going and what they're are doing... it short it's a barrier for which only a new tire can solve... so even thought they may not find the right words to express their fear... It's still their choice... I think we all can agree that track days are all about over coming barriers... wether psychological... (I feel like I'm going too fast) to mechanical... (my rev limiter kicked in)... have fun and let us know how it goes for you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer chris2992 Posted May 10, 2006 Member Contributer Share Posted May 10, 2006 I never said anything about the sidewalls. The deformities were at the tread. There weren't any deformities on the outside sidewall. There could have been on the inside, but I didn't have to go that far to see that there was a problem.As far as buying in that order, we have Michelin LTX's on it now, but these were OEM's and I'm not to fond of the idea of removing brand new tires to keep something like that from happening. BTW, what brands does Continental manufacture tires for other than their own? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Wow, if it popped cords on the top side of the caracas, that was a very serious problem, especially if it caused a bulge. I can't imagine it being any where close to driveable. I guess that is why you said it shook like crazy, but that would be more like driving on a jack hammer. Bummer, firestone should have seen those tires, you could have gotten a large refund. Conti makes Continental, Toyo, General Tires, and a few others that I can't think of right now. Continental is the result of a name change in the early 90's from General Tire. Keep the Michelins on there, they have a very good tire reputation. If I didn't get a discount on Conti's, I'd be using michelins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer tbzep Posted May 10, 2006 Member Contributer Share Posted May 10, 2006 Wow, if it popped cords on the top side of the caracas, that was a very serious problem, especially if it caused a bulge. I can't imagine it being any where close to driveable. I guess that is why you said it shook like crazy, but that would be more like driving on a jack hammer. Bummer, firestone should have seen those tires, you could have gotten a large refund.Conti makes Continental, Toyo, General Tires, and a few others that I can't think of right now. Continental is the result of a name change in the early 90's from General Tire. Keep the Michelins on there, they have a very good tire reputation. If I didn't get a discount on Conti's, I'd be using michelins. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks for the info. I've wondered about that for a while. When I got in to check what my wife was complaining about, I could tell it was bad the second I got off of the gravel driveway. The steering wheel vibrated like the handlebars of an old Harley with a hard mounted Panhead. :offtopic: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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