Swiffers new front end

[Guest dem1]

:blink: I found everything very intersting...do you get a considerable weight reduce with the gixxer forks? :thumbsup:

[Guest Swiffer]

:blink: I found everything very intersting...do you get a considerable weight reduce with the gixxer forks? :thumbsup:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I didn't do it for weight reduction and I didn't weigh the original ones before I sold them off. I need to change head bearings on Stockie so I will have a second chance soon. I'll be back.

[Yack]

Also, if the CBR929/954 wheel will accept the CBR1000RR rotors, and the RC51/CBR929/954 rotors are interchangeable, henceforth the RC51 wheel will also accept the CBR1000RR rotors. Doesn't mean they will necessarily have the correct offset, but they will bolt on.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wouldn't think you would want to use the 1000RR triples, it has these nasty lugs on the top clamp for the electronic steering damper mount.

The 929/954 uses the same part numbers for the axle, collars, bearings and dust seal as the 1000RR. The SP1 & SP2 axle diameter is different . It's not a direct swap to fit the RC51 wheel to the 954 forks or vice-versa. I've read they will not fit without using spacers.

I think the mounting area for the RC51/929/954/1000RR rotors are the same but the 929/954 rotor diameter are 330mm.

You can check out the online fiche at RonAyers if you all ready didn't know about it.

Of course, anything is possible with a little machine work. Notice the 929/954 forks, 954 rotors, and SP1 wheel.

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Edited April 14, 2005 by Yack

[JoeAsheville]

:wheel:

OUTSTANDING work Swiffer. This is the EXACT same thing that I plan on doing with a 2001 VFR that I just purchased. I have a complete GSXR1000 front end, a 2001 model like what you have. I had anticipated that the forks would be of a different length and had struggled with ideas but it seems that the clamps issue is fairly well solved, as well as suitable clipon mounts. Even that Duc front wheel matches the stock rear. What a wonderful combination with a Penske rear shock.

I would tear mine down to continue your R&D on this side of the ocean on mine and update the thread as well, but this is riding season here in the States...I will have to see what happens this winter and begin the project then. Best of luck, I will perform as much research as I can myself. You've already done the lion's share however, and I greatly appreciate it. :thumbsup:

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<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Edited July 3, 2006 by JoeAsheville

[Guest Swiffer]

Thanks Joe!

Mine is a -94, but I think you will have an easier time since it seems that later models have more room up there.

Talk to me again before you get Cycle Cat risers.

Btw, its riding season here too...

[SAFE-T]

Your bike rocks :wheel:

Must be some slight difference between the 94-97 rotor and the 98-01 rotor, because I test fit a CBR1100XX rotor on a Marchesini and it fit, and that rotor had the same bolt pattern/diameter as the 98-01 VFR.

The GSXR forks must have their calipers mounted slightly more inboard than the RC51 - you shouldn't even have to make any adjustments at all.

Keep the pics coming !

[SAFE-T]

Even that Duc front wheel matches the stock rear.

Stock rear :goofy: You mean on your bike, Joe ?

The 2000-01 RC51 front wheel is a reasonable replacement for the VFR's front, and I have suggested the 2002+ RC51 front wheel for the 98-01 model because of it's flat-sided 5-spoke design that is very similar to the 5th gen rear wheel.

Keep in mind the RC wheel uses a smaller ID bearing, so you would have to change them out to fit the wheel on the GSXR fork.

But I dare ya to sell that Chicane wheel of yours, do the rear single nut mod and put on a set of Marvic Penta I's :wheel:

[Guest LexVFR800]

I have done this mod to my 98 VFR. I have the complete front end from a 2000 929 RR.

The head stem and bearings are the same for a lot of Honda motorcycles so you can use many different bike parts. However, there are very few options that preserve a safe geometry and allow for a bar position close to stock.

I would never lower the 929, 954, RC51 forks in the tripple clamps in order to to put clipons that go over the top of the top tripple. These forks are already shorter than the VFR fork so in effect the front end is lowered by an inch. Any more is much too low!

I used the complete 929 front end, Convertibars, 929 front master cylinder, and the rest is all VFR. I had to do some minor trimming of the inner part of the fairing so that the lower part of the convertibars would clear. I also had to remove the stops from the 929 lower tripple and use special bolts, nuts, as new steering head bump stops. Due to the weight of the VFR a set of .90 racetec springs are required.

This install is safe and reliable unlike some of the suggestions in this thread.

I put a post out here many months ago. There were pictures.

Good luck.

[SAFE-T]

This install is safe and reliable unlike some of the suggestions in this thread.

What suggestions were unsafe or unreliable ? No one here is moving their forks up in the triple clamps...the RC51 fork is longer than CBR929/954 and when combined with the CBR top triple that drops 32mm you have enough tube to clamp onto on top of the triple clamp and still maintain stock ride height at the front.

[Guest Swiffer]

This takes us back to a discussion somewhere on this board about the predictability of mods. Obviously there is a need to be cautious after all mods, especially those that involve stuff like brakes and steering.

Some changes in bike behaviour can be predicted by bike geometry numbers (contact Busy Little Shop for that) and some can be predicted from your own and others experience. BUT there is NO substitute for thorough and cautious testing.

Now 3 track weekends and 8000 miles+ later I feel very confident in the mods done to my bike (and my lap times are substantially improved)

[SAFE-T]

I have been planning on putting a 929/954 front-end on my '91 project but I sure wouldn't want the bike to be an inch lower than stock out front.? Is this truly the result that you get by putting the 929 front end on a '91????

Perhaps check with Rod Holland at HiPerform - he has a '90 with CBR929 forks. Check out his 'VFR Project' bike on his website under 'motorcycles'.

If you use CBR929/954 or GSXR forks you have to use clipons that mount under the triple clamps.

veefer800canuck used a set of helibars for a Ducati 900SS on his RC51 front end conversion, and maintained a bar height that was higher and further back than stock - which is the way he wanted it. You can get higher, lower or equal to stock bar height and position depending on which fork/triple/clipon combination you use in your conversion.

[Blue Viffer]

If you use CBR929/954 or GSXR forks you have to use clipons that mount under the triple clamps.

veefer800canuck used a set of helibars for a Ducati 900SS on his RC51 front end conversion, and maintained a bar height that was higher and further back than stock - which is the way he wanted it. You can get higher, lower or equal to stock bar height and position depending on which fork/triple/clipon combination you use in your conversion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I used the stock RC51 clip ons at first above the tripple clamps. A little too far forward for my tastes. Did the convertibars still not to my liking. Then found helibars for a 929. Fit is very close to stock bars when put on top or the clamp.

If you want a little more relaxed you could even use the 954 helibars.

And by the way I did raise my forks about 5mm and am going to raise them another 5mm but I have the rear raised for the pipes.

vince

[Guest Salty42]

Basically, I want USD forks, with stock (or close to) ergos, without loosing ride height on my '91 ... seems like I'll need RC51 forks, 929 upper triple, clip-ons on top, and an SP-1 lower triple. Although, I would prefer to put a complete 929/954 front end on it, I don't want bad ergos or altered geometry... What should I do?

[Blue Viffer]

BLUEVIFFER ... Do you have RC51 forks or the 929/954 forks??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have the RC 51 forks, besides being longer in length than the 929 954 version you have a little more travel something on the oreder of 5.1 inches to 4.8 inches.

And with the 954 top clamp and rc bottom you can adjust them up and down in the clamps to get the feeling you want when turning in.

vince

[Blue Viffer]

Basically, I want USD forks, with stock (or close to) ergos, without loosing ride height on my '91 ... seems like I'll need RC51 forks, 929 upper triple, clip-ons on top, and an SP-1 lower triple.  Although, I would prefer to put a complete 929/954 front end on it, I don't want bad ergos or altered geometry...  What should I do?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

With 929 954 top clamp and early rc bottom you could use either the 929 954 or rc 51 forks. You have enough to adjust the forks up and down in the clamps as to not have bad geometry. Ask BLS for a computer analysis of your bike with the different clamps and forks. I liked the rc forks because they have stiffer springs and longer travel. Being a big guy it makes the ride just right for me.

vince

[SAFE-T]

Well, it looks like it'll have to be the RC51 forks, they seem like the better choice for what I want.?

The RC51 forks will be a lot less prone to flex than the stock forks, as they are 50mm as opposed to your stock 41mm.

The brakes will be better, since the RC uses 4-piston calipers on 320mm rotors as opposed to your bikes' 2-piston calipers on 296mm rotors.

One other option for you might be R1 forks. I can't remember their exact length but they are longer than the CBR929/954 forks and have the same stock spring (.740 kg/mm) rate as the VFR. The axle diameter is 22mm as opposed to the VFR's 20mm, but if you swapped out the bearings and made inner/outer wheel spacers (not difficult) you should be able to use the stock front wheel and rotors, which could save you a few bucks.

This is what I was originally going to do, but ask vfrrider (Larry) what his experience has been putting an R1 front end on his third generation VFR750.

The R1 fork will fit in the Honda triple clamps (either RC51 SP-1 or CBR929/954) and other than making some adjustments to the rotor/caliper alignment to account for differences between R1 and VFR, this combo should work fine. The R1 master cylinder is the same size as the CBR600F4's, so I would use that if you want to match your clutch master cylinder in terms of appearance. If you prefer the 'inboard-remote' look of the R1's front brake master cylinder, you can also look into a VTR1000 SuperHawk clutch master or RC51 (any year) clutch master.

You can also use six-piston GSXR/Hayabusa calipers on the RC51, F4/F4i or 929/954 forks but I have recently been told they are actually inferior in performance to Honda's four-piston Nissins.

[Guest Swiffer]

When having a discussion like this, a reality check is sometimes in order.

Why do you do the mods?

What do you hope to achieve?

What kind of riding do you do?

Considering the bike you are modifying, is it really relevant to find the ultimate performance in each of the individual parts/functions that you are modifying (unless the choice is made based on sheer bling value)?

(Please observe that this does not apply to me since I have no reality to check ? I just enjoy fiddling with my VFR).

But if you start to discussing the mods from a more sane standpoint, I think that you must acknowledge that, performance wise, most of the alternatives for the mods discussed here (in the VFR non racing context) are close to equal.

I think that the decision on what stuff to use must be based on availability and price (and amount of work that needs to be put into the mod ? if that worries you) of the package you choose (and if it works together obviously). The stuff we are talking about in this thread are mostly greatly superior to what is on the bike to begin with.

(and hey Safe-T, even though your comment on the callipers sparked this eruption, I do in no way disagree with you ? in fact all I know about this is what the bike mags write and they sometimes say what you say)

[JoeAsheville]

I agree Swiffer...although in real world outer-margin track performance the 4-pot Nissins might be better in one or several areas, for me personally they are just as comparable. I, like you, enjoy fiddling.

I'm probably going to put off the front end for another year, I'm looking for RC51 front wheels and nearly all of them are around $300 on eBay...and I'm fooling with getting a Wolf slip-on to fit with the 2Bros Ti header. It's much more involved than I thought, but by no means impossible...and I'm a *&^*&(* perfectionist. That increases the difficulty factor by 10. I'm basically re-engineering what Wolf did. But I digress...

I'll get to the front end soon.

[Guest VFR2X]

Very good, that was what I was thinking just no one had mentioned that part of the set up nor have I seen any photos. so it really had me thinking do I machine out the stock units or use the 51/29/54. My thinking is I'd like to keep it like it came that way from the factory. Funny thing is I have a 954 and love the brakes, always wanted that kind of braking ability, never thought of putting nor did I know it would fit now that I know it's time to go hunting for parts. Now you wouldn't happen to know where I could find a RC45 rear wheel and parts to be able to install? Love that Safe-T VFR

[JoeAsheville]

Many apologies Safe-T...but I've been looking back through this thread trying to find the correct type of rotor to be on the lookout for.

I'm going to be using the GSXR1000 front end, with CBR954 upper triple and RC51 lower triple, and the RC51 wheel. Swiffer used a Marchesini Duc replacement. There's a RC wheel on eBay right now, without bearings, which would make for an easier job of fitting new bearings to fit the GSXR axle (I'm not going to pick up a Marchesini right now). However, I was wondering if the flange-to-flange width on Swiffer's Marchesini is the same dimension as the one on that RC front wheel? If it's wider, I can use a set of CBR929/954 front rotors I've found with a little spacing. If narrower...I might have to use the stock RC rotors, or perhaps the CBR1000 rotors, depending on offset.

The wheel flange to flange dimension, and the rotor offset, are the major questions in this (tangled) missive...thanks anybody (including Safe-T) for your input on this.

[SAFE-T]

No apologies necessary - although some of these measurements are discussed anywhere else on the board, this is a specific question which has not been asked before.

Swiffer used 10mm offset Ducati rotors - these were OEM on the 'R' model Ducati's, as opposed to the 5mm offset rotors found on the standard models.

On my bike, the Marchesini wheel with 10mm offset rotors still needed an extra 4mm on each side to match up with the calipers. I used (2) standard flat washers - one on the backside of each rotor between the carrier and the hub, and one on each caliper between the caliper and the mount - to make up the difference.

Although the CBR929/954 rotor will mount up to the RC51 wheel, their diameter is 330 mm as opposed to the 320mm rotor the GSXR fork is setup for.

One way to check whether an RC51 wheel and rotor will fit in the GSXR fork is to ask someone who owns or is selling a GSXR1000 wheel with stock rotors what the measurement from outside edge to outside of the rotors is, then compare this to the same measurement of an RC51 wheel with stock rotors. As long as you're within a couple of millimeters, you'll be fine.

I have a set of Galfer Wave Rotors for an RC51 wheel - eyeballing them compared to the Ducati 'R' rotors, it appears the RC rotors are offset about 8 mm. Given the slightly narrower hub of the Marchesini compared to the RC, and that you will using GSXR forks in RC triples my hypothesis is that an RC wheel with RC rotors will work OK.

[JoeAsheville]

I have a set of Galfer Wave Rotors for an RC51 wheel - eyeballing them compared to the Ducati 'R' rotors, it appears the RC rotors are offset about 8 mm. Given the slightly narrower hub of the Marchesini compared to the RC, and that you will using GSXR forks in RC triples my hypothesis is that an RC wheel with RC rotors will work OK.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OK! Thanks guy, I'll be on the lookout for a set of RC51 rotors. I liked the looks of the 929/954 rotors, but forgot about the 10mm extra diameter...d'oh.

Like Swiffer, I believe what I'll do is start a thread, outlining exactly what parts I have in the front end and what it took to get them all together. Hopefully my digicam battery will hold up for that, it's been a pretty wet noodle lately.

Thanks again for your help Safe-T. :D

[SEBSPEED]

So, how much of all of this wonderful information will apply to my 05 when it falls out of warranty coverage in a year, given I'd like to keep ergos as close to stock as possible? :P

My main "wants" for the project would be:

- stock ergos

- radial mount brakes

- matching wheels a plus(open to non-vfr wheels)

Thanks in advance!! :D

[SAFE-T]

My main "wants" for the project would be:

- stock ergos (use Ducati 900SS helibars)

- radial mount brakes (GSXR/CBR1000R/ZX636R/Aprilia RSV-R)

- matching wheels a plus (use the stock wheel and match up a set of rotors and wheel bearings from a Ducati)

[Dennis The Menace]

I wouldn't get 2 cents for it in its present condition. Looks like a pile of scrap right now. But there's a story on the big-bore. I'll post saturday when I've gotten the pics from the shop. (the shop more or less stole the repaint money...)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

you're doing the big bore treatment? I would be really interested in the outcome of that, and the costs if you are willing to share. Will you have before and after

power numbers to compare?