Guest nbogert Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 Hey guys. I recently aquired a 1991 VFR 750. I bought the bike from a close friend who's father passed away a year ago. It was his father's bike, and I've know him for 20 years. He had it 4 or 5 years, I have it now for a month. Not sure how many miles on it, the tach cluster has been changed. I do know that I put about 550 miles on it in 3 weeks time. Here's the issue. I noticed the starter going bad. I would get the rrrrrreeeeiitt! sound while starting. So..I picked up a starter clutch at a bike junk yard. From what I and the guy know..it should be the right year, or an interchangeable one. Anyway. B4 I changed the starter clutch, the bike ran great, except for the occasional bum start needed lol. So, on Saturday I swapped the starter clutches. Everything went great, gears matched up perfectly, no slop or forcing needed. But I snapped a bolt in the crankcase and drilled it out keeping the gears and internals covered so no metal shavings get into anything. So, the bike sat till the weather broke and I could oil it up and start it today. 3 days without oil, crankcase on. In the rain with a complete cover(totally enclosed cover) on it. I put oil in today and go to start it...cranks over FANTASTIC!!! but doesnt pick up and start. I choked it...nothing...then thought it may be flooded..so I took the choke off and cranked it with the throttle wide open...nothing. I smell raw fuel near the exhaust so Im thinking the fuel pump still works. I took of the oil fill cap and cranked it, and the Clutch spins, so that tells me the starter clutch works. The Run switch is set to run. It is in neutral when I try to start it. So...I went to check out teh plugs and found that all were fouled. I changed the plugs and kept one out to see if I have spark. I set it on the frame and cranked it with the Run switch set to run. No spark. I thought, ok, maybe this coil is bad, lemme check another. I checked 3...no spark at any. And1 have any ideas about where to look. I find it weird that all of a sudden..I have no spark. I was no where near anything on the bike when I did the starter clutch. Would a bad starter relay do this? I have no friggin idea what's up. Any help is MUCH appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer AnikMankar Posted June 13, 2010 Member Contributer Share Posted June 13, 2010 sounds electrical - check the fuse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 sounds electrical - check the fuse Fuses are good. At least in the fuse box. Are there any othr fuses I need to look for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer V-FORE Posted June 13, 2010 Member Contributer Share Posted June 13, 2010 sounds electrical - check the fuse Fuses are good. At least in the fuse box. Are there any othr fuses I need to look for? if no spark at the plugs,Verify coils are getting power that would be the first check, I always check for spark by holding on to the plug then you will know :musik20: I wouldn't imagine all four coils going bad at once, therefor it has to be power related. Good Luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 sounds electrical - check the fuse Fuses are good. At least in the fuse box. Are there any othr fuses I need to look for? if no spark at the plugs,Verify coils are getting power that would be the first check, I always check for spark by holding on to the plug then you will know :musik20: I wouldn't imagine all four coils going bad at once, therefor it has to be power related. Good Luck Ok..so..hmmm. I am aware it's power related. That's why I posted it in the Electrical threads. All four coils going bad at the same time does not seem likely. So my question is...what should I check out from ignition to coil? Is there anything to check? Are there any fuses in that line that I may not be aware of? I'm sorry I'm asking, but I need the weather to break before I can go do the investigative thing. Too much rain here. I'm just hoping that maybe som1 had a similar problem, and can give me an idea of what to look for instead of me ripping into the entire wiring harness to look for anything lol. Which may not be a bad idea considering the bike is almost 20 yrs old. Anyway. I've looked in the forums on this site, and VFRworld without any luck. Thanks for every1s time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer AnikMankar Posted June 14, 2010 Member Contributer Share Posted June 14, 2010 You will need a multimeter to test this. work you way up 0) Did you try using a new set of plugs ? 1) what plug cap are you using ...see if you can take the cap out and just check if you are getting any spark at the wire if there is spark - it could be a faulty plug cap 2) disconnect the power from the coil - connect the multimeter across on one...crank see if any power - if no power move on - if power (coil is screwed) 3) check the engine kill switch - that could be bad - ( little WD40 spray helps) 4) not sure if you have any clutch / sidestand switch - they too can cause a problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 You will need a multimeter to test this. work you way up 0) Did you try using a new set of plugs ? 1) what plug cap are you using ...see if you can take the cap out and just check if you are getting any spark at the wire if there is spark - it could be a faulty plug cap 2) disconnect the power from the coil - connect the multimeter across on one...crank see if any power - if no power move on - if power (coil is screwed) 3) check the engine kill switch - that could be bad - ( little WD40 spray helps) 4) not sure if you have any clutch / sidestand switch - they too can cause a problem Changed the plugs..checked for spark via plug connected to wire sitting on frame and cranked it. No spark at any plug. I'll have to really check out the RUN/STOP switch. As far as the clutch/side stand switches go...I know that if I have the sidestand down and in gear it won't even crank. In neutral it does. So if one of those 2 switches are bad..the starter wouldnt get any power to crank it right? I can crank with ease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer AnikMankar Posted June 14, 2010 Member Contributer Share Posted June 14, 2010 You will need a multimeter to test this. work you way up 0) Did you try using a new set of plugs ? 1) what plug cap are you using ...see if you can take the cap out and just check if you are getting any spark at the wire if there is spark - it could be a faulty plug cap 2) disconnect the power from the coil - connect the multimeter across on one...crank see if any power - if no power move on - if power (coil is screwed) 3) check the engine kill switch - that could be bad - ( little WD40 spray helps) 4) not sure if you have any clutch / sidestand switch - they too can cause a problem Changed the plugs..checked for spark via plug connected to wire sitting on frame and cranked it. No spark at any plug. I'll have to really check out the RUN/STOP switch. As far as the clutch/side stand switches go...I know that if I have the sidestand down and in gear it won't even crank. In neutral it does. So if one of those 2 switches are bad..the starter wouldnt get any power to crank it right? I can crank with ease. Guess the clutch/side stand switch is ok. use the multimeter to check the power at the coil (not the spark plug end but hte battery end) see if there is power - good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum CEO HispanicSlammer Posted June 14, 2010 Forum CEO Share Posted June 14, 2010 I am not too familiar with the 91, but I replaced a stator once and did not get the crankshaft pulse generator put back in correctly and so it would not generate a spark. I am thinking when you had the clutch cover open perhaps there is a pulse generator you missed, unhooked, or missaligned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer FotoMoto Posted June 14, 2010 Member Contributer Share Posted June 14, 2010 I am not too familiar with the 91, but I replaced a stator once and did not get the crankshaft pulse generator put back in correctly and so it would not generate a spark. I am thinking when you had the clutch cover open perhaps there is a pulse generator you missed, unhooked, or missaligned? :fing02: That pickup also plugs into the wiring harness a couple of inches away from the cover. You typically need to disconnect it to completely remove the crankcase cover; probably overlooked it. Also a good idea to replace the fouled plugs since you're all ready there. They can be found at many auto parts stores much cheaper than your local stealer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 I am not too familiar with the 91, but I replaced a stator once and did not get the crankshaft pulse generator put back in correctly and so it would not generate a spark. I am thinking when you had the clutch cover open perhaps there is a pulse generator you missed, unhooked, or missaligned? The Stator from what I understand is on the left side of the engine block. I changed the starter clutch on the right side. I didn't touch that side. Where is the pulse gen located? I think I saw something related to ignition is supposed to be under the seat? Like towards the tail lights. ECM maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer FotoMoto Posted June 14, 2010 Member Contributer Share Posted June 14, 2010 I am not too familiar with the 91, but I replaced a stator once and did not get the crankshaft pulse generator put back in correctly and so it would not generate a spark. I am thinking when you had the clutch cover open perhaps there is a pulse generator you missed, unhooked, or missaligned? The Stator from what I understand is on the left side of the engine block. I changed the starter clutch on the right side. I didn't touch that side. Where is the pulse gen located? I think I saw something related to ignition is supposed to be under the seat? Like towards the tail lights. ECM maybe? Miggy probably just mis-typed. The timing pickup for the engine is run off the gears under the right side engine cover. If it is unplugged or the pickup itself is not secured correctly to the inside cover, you'll have either no timing or be very, very off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum CEO HispanicSlammer Posted June 14, 2010 Forum CEO Share Posted June 14, 2010 Like I said I am not familiar with how a 91 is layed out electrical wise, it was just an idea. And yes I ment clutch cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 I am not too familiar with the 91, but I replaced a stator once and did not get the crankshaft pulse generator put back in correctly and so it would not generate a spark. I am thinking when you had the clutch cover open perhaps there is a pulse generator you missed, unhooked, or missaligned? The Stator from what I understand is on the left side of the engine block. I changed the starter clutch on the right side. I didn't touch that side. Where is the pulse gen located? I think I saw something related to ignition is supposed to be under the seat? Like towards the tail lights. ECM maybe? Miggy probably just mis-typed. The timing pickup for the engine is run off the gears under the right side engine cover. If it is unplugged or the pickup itself is not secured correctly to the inside cover, you'll have either no timing or be very, very off. Hmm..I dont remember any wires inside the crankcase cover. I could be wrong, I just dont remember. I do remember the Clutch on the left, the starter clutch right next to it, and the, I guess drive gear. Its the gear that hooks up the starter motor gear with the starter clutch. All that was ok. I really dont remember and wires or plugs of any kind in the block near those gears. I couldnt really imagine wires hanging out by fast moving gears like thos inside a crankcase. Are they on the outside? Somewhere near the centerstand? Im sorry I cant verify things, my bike is 30 miles away now at a friends house so I can work on it with the proper tools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer FotoMoto Posted June 15, 2010 Member Contributer Share Posted June 15, 2010 OK. Upon reviewing the manual, you don't have to remove the pulse generator wiring to work on the starter clutch. I remembered removing it but I now realize that was for another project. It is a four wire lead that comes out of the cover and plugs into the harness. Check to see if that connection is secure. Did you lock up or otherwise stabilize then crankshaft gears while working on the starter clutch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 OK. Upon reviewing the manual, you don't have to remove the pulse generator wiring to work on the starter clutch. I remembered removing it but I now realize that was for another project. It is a four wire lead that comes out of the cover and plugs into the harness. Check to see if that connection is secure. Did you lock up or otherwise stabilize then crankshaft gears while working on the starter clutch? Ok I do remember a wire on the left side crank coming from what I believe would be the alternator. I did make sure that wire was connected good. That was just a general follow up after I was finished. Wrong side of the bike, but still wanted to make sure. I did lock the crank gears..used a penny. If I didnt, I wouldnt have been able to losen the starter clutch main bolt/nut. Dont worry..penny is out lol. I'll double check those wires. Still feel clueless lol. Gotta start somewhere huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marks152 Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 the starter clutch you fitted was identical to the one that came out wasnt it, it has notches on the outside of the casing which control the timing/firing and if its the wrong one it wont spark, ive seen this problem before with this model, doublle check the notches are same on both units, i had a similar problem with a zxr400, no spark, turned out it had the wrong ignition advancer fitted on the end of the crank, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 the starter clutch you fitted was identical to the one that came out wasnt it, it has notches on the outside of the casing which control the timing/firing and if its the wrong one it wont spark, ive seen this problem before with this model, doublle check the notches are same on both units, i had a similar problem with a zxr400, no spark, turned out it had the wrong ignition advancer fitted on the end of the crank, From what I remember, The original one said someting like TI, TII, TIII TIV..The starter clutch I was given, and told that it should be interchangable said TI, TII, TIII, and I think like MTIV..I could be wrong, but I know it wasnt the same as the original one. And there was only one way to fit it on as well. Keep in mind that many parts of the same model from different years will work. For instance. Quite a few fairing/body parts all fit the 91-93 VFR 750. Now onto the not sparking because the timing is off. I can totally see how if the plugs had spark, and the timing was off, how the enigine wont "Pick up". The plugs would be firing at the wrong time and not igniting the fuel. I can't seem to wrap my head around if the timing was off that the plugs would have no spark. I would think that the, no wires starter clutch can't prevent an electric spark. I'm kinda new to working on engines, I have never really ripped one apart and put it back together. But with instructions, I can replace anything and I have a lil understanding of how things work. If I'm wrong about the sparking/timing please let me know. I'm very eager to learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer gll429 Posted June 16, 2010 Member Contributer Share Posted June 16, 2010 NO SPARK??!!?? did you forget to bring flowers and wine?? :fing02: down load the manual... clean connectors.. follow flow chart. :fing02: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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