TomG33

I've Just completed an advanced riding technique school at a closed driver training facility in Brisbane, Mt Cotton, If you know it. This technique was pretty much how the road riding section ended up. We were dong fairly fast laps and most of us were not using the brake, or just momentarily, for most of the circuit. The thrill of the day was most definitely the thrill of getting the perfect line through each corner, picking the entrance speed , the apex and the exit line just right so that the next corner just flowed on. Not once did any of the instructers mention "The Pace" however it was very clear, after reading this, that each of them had learned and embraced this technique. If any of you, older riders and new alike, get the chance to do a course like this on a closed, controlled circuit I highly recommend it. There is nothing like going through a variety of different corners, and having an instructor there to ask for guideance from , or to pick you up on what you are not doing correctly, in an environment that is not peer pressure driven and safely away from other vehicles. Thank you BR for posting this article. It is bookmarked and printed, Tom

Now they could be wrong and you could be correct, but I still don't think that is a deal breaking issue. I mean we are dealing with liberating and utilizing KW's of additional power, or at the very minimum not wasting them like we were before. a few watts to make the gas is not going to toss over the applecart. once I get the led marker and brake lights and maybe the HID system, then I seriously doubt that it could still be an issue. JES, Thanks for the link. I read it and it does give a good insight into the workings of the R/R. Personally I think you are wasting too much time pandering to all us Cynics. Spend your time getting the thing working and then let the results speak for themselves. I think that would be a much better way to utilize your energy. You are right in saying that no matter who is right, It is not a deal breaker, I never said it was and I still believe that it isn't. Just some small numbers that have to be accounted for, nothing more. For those that know me, I am a pedantic person, and ever since I started reading about how the R/R works, I have had this "Itch" about everybody keeps stating that the R/R disipates Excess alternator power. I really do not believe that this is the case. I will leave it alone for now, do a little more exploring and perhaps start a separate thread about it, so as not to detract from the work you are doing. Good Luck Tom

Please tell me that you don't have an EE. I don't even know where to start to explain where the train left the tracks here... Serenity_VFR Actully I do have a Degree in Electrical Engineering, And I have spent the past 30 years working with power electronics and with very large DC and AC Machines, (up to 30 MW) and, I might add, very successfull at getting them to work, and fixing them when they break in places all over the world. I am correct in what I say, and just because You do not have the working knowledge of this type of equipment to fully understand it, does not mean that you have to start getting personal and throwing insults around. You said, ..... It's just math -but if you don't understand the equations and know how to mix I=E/R with P=IE then it's never going to work out. Mix in a little bit of 3-phase AC theory and most people get totally lost......... Yes, you are dead right, But 3 phase and DC power are my native environment, I LOVE IT, If you want to tell me I am full of shit, then you better come up with a better line then ".......I don't even know where to start to explain where the train left the tracks here......" Specifics Please !!!! Tom

The bike isn't throwing away electricity. The load on the engine from the stator is the resistance of the system attached to it. As you draw more amps, the stator will be harder to turn, using more fuel. No, the stator generates full output (for the rpms it is turning) at all times. You can't increase the load on it, you can only siphon off the power it generates (which is why we have a regulator to soak up the power that the bikes systems don't burn up). Anytime you hear words like "Can I just say" or "That's a very good question" or "let me tell you"... you're listening to either a politician or a spin doctor. You're right, permanent magnet generator, not field controlled generator on bikes. First up I need to say that I think what JES_VFR is trying to do is admirable. Experimenting to find out if there is a better way of doing something. That is exactly how the human race got to where we are today. (and lets not have some smart arse come back with "Chocking the planet with CO2"). Experimentation in the face of doubt, IMHO, produced so many of the advances we now take for granted. Now , regarding this part of the thread about power demand on the alternator, All power flow, no matter if it is electrical or Mechanical needs something capable of generating it, and something capable of using it. Think of a 10 HP motor sitting on the floor. If it has no power supply, It becomes just a paper weight, capable of doing nothing interesting. Now, if you hook this motor up to the wall socket and turn it on, it will start to turn, probably at it's nominal speed. A little bit of power is used to accelerate the rotor, but once it reaches it's operating speed, it is not drawing or delivering any power apart from maybe blowing some air around, or warming up the Bearings a little. It is only if we connect that motor to some mechanical device that is going to move things, like lifting something up, or draging something along or pumping something from one height to another, that any real power flow is going on, and if you organize the load correctly you just might match the load to the 10 HP the motor is rated to do. ok , so we got to have something to generate power and something to use it before you get a power flow. The same applies to your VFR alternator. I may not have had a lot to do with Modern Motor cycle electrics, but the theory of electric machines has not change much since the 1920's Basically, the excitation on the alternator is fixed, by virtue of the permanent magnets. As the RPM's go up, the voltage goes up. Now the R/R clamps this rising voltage by shunting some current from the alternator directly to frame using the SCR's in the R/R. Back at University we learned that power is equal to Current squared times Resistance (P = I*I*R), now in the Circuits I have seen for the R/R the only resistance in the circuit is the forward conducting volt drop in the SCR itself and whatever resistance there may be in the plug connections and the wires themselves. Thus, even thou there may be a fair amount of current flowing (remember we have to think of it being squared, as in the formulae), the resistance part of the circuit is normally very very low, therefore, from the equation, the power required to circulate this current in the "Stator-R/R-Frame" circuit is not all that high and so the actual mechanical load on the crankshaft is equally low, Thus the short circuited current that is clamping the voltage at it's correct level, is not taking very Much power out of your trusty V4 Engine. When it comes to power, there is no free lunch. The HHO Generator will require power to separate the water into it's components, and every Watt (or HP) that it requires will translate directly to HP delivered by the alternator, using power taken from the Crankshaft. The actual mechanism is that the Cell will operate at a certain voltage and require a certain amount of current, Multiply the two together and you will have the number of WATTs the unit requires to work. 746 of these WATTs will be one HP from the shaft. so the statement ...... No, the stator generates full output (for the rpms it is turning) at all times. You can't increase the load on it, you can only siphon off the power it generates (which is why we have a regulator to soak up the power that the bikes systems don't burn up)........ is not true. The R/R shunting is not really a power soak, just a current soak, You need both Current AND Voltage (from resistance) before you get power. This is not to say that the idea of the HHO addition to the fuel will not increase the net power output from the engine, based on your arguments about more complete burning, etc, But What I am saying is that any power required to operate the HHO generator will be an extra power demand on the Engine that will need to be accounted for. I sincerely hope that your experiment will produce real results in both savings on fuel and a general increase in our collective knowledge about this innovation, I just think it will help to clear up the misconception about the energy required to run the HHO unit. Tom