Sirfaffalot Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 Hi everyone, completely new to a bike forum. Looking for your help. I have a 6th gen 2008 800 VTec Abs. A few weeks ago the indicators and horn stopped working. Having been through the manual, I’ve changed the 10 amp fuse (3 times) and now on my 3rd relay. Having searched the internet I cannot find an obvious solution other than attaching all the nose cone and fairings back on and taking it to a repair garage. any other tips or things to try before my wallet potentially gets emptied?? thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted June 29, 2021 Member Contributer Share Posted June 29, 2021 Hi and welcome to the forum. Does your fuse blow the minute you insert a new one? Or only when you operate the turn signals? Depending on your bike version that fuse might also be for your brake light circuit and a common cause for a blown fuse is the Front Brake Switch connections making contact with the brake master cylinder. So check that one out and lets know how you get on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirfaffalot Posted June 29, 2021 Author Share Posted June 29, 2021 Hi Grum, I need to clarify… I have replaced the fuse three times as a precaution just in case I was unlucky to have replaced a bad fuse with another bad fuse. Likewise with the centre relay for the indicators. They now appear not be the cause (which reading the manual, are the obvious ones). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted June 29, 2021 Member Contributer Share Posted June 29, 2021 30 minutes ago, Sirfaffalot said: Hi Grum, I need to clarify… I have replaced the fuse three times as a precaution just in case I was unlucky to have replaced a bad fuse with another bad fuse. Likewise with the centre relay for the indicators. They now appear not be the cause (which reading the manual, are the obvious ones). ???? So you've replaced fuses that aren't blown, and both horn and turn indicators are not working. Have I got that correct? Do you have a multimeter and know how to use it? You need to start measuring voltages! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirfaffalot Posted June 29, 2021 Author Share Posted June 29, 2021 Yes that’s correct. In my limited knowledge I went down my simple route of trial and error. I bought a multimeter this morning but the instructions are a bit vague. I need to do some research. which voltages would you be checking as you’ve mentioned it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted June 29, 2021 Member Contributer Share Posted June 29, 2021 Ok then. Just for starters. On your meter see if you have a 20v DC range and select that. If its auto ranging then just select DC Volts. Place your red lead on the positive and black on the negative of the battery, you should read 12v or so. What do you read? Next is to measure voltage at the fuse you've been replacing according to the drawing I have this will be Fuse B. There are two small metal test points on the top of the fuse. With your ignition to On and red lead probing the test points, Do You Measure 12v on BOTH fuse test points? Place your black lead on the battery negative or a known good ground point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirfaffalot Posted June 29, 2021 Author Share Posted June 29, 2021 Ok done that. Battery - 12.89 Fuse on both testing points when ignition on and grounded to battery negative - 12.57 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted June 29, 2021 Member Contributer Share Posted June 29, 2021 Ok thats good. Seeing you're familiar with the Turn Relay. Remove the relay and confirm you have three wires going to it, a Gray, Green and a Black/Brown. With your meter probe the Green and the Black/Brown wires, red lead to the Black/Brown wire, black lead to the Green wire. With ignition to on do you measure 12v? Its almost midnight here happy to continue for 15mins or so! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirfaffalot Posted June 29, 2021 Author Share Posted June 29, 2021 Only have a grey and a black/grey. No green Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirfaffalot Posted June 29, 2021 Author Share Posted June 29, 2021 I meant black/brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted June 29, 2021 Member Contributer Share Posted June 29, 2021 Ok forget the Turn Relay for the moment my drawing is slightly different. Last test before bed! At your Horn you should have a Green and a Light Green wire. You need to probe these two wires with ignition to on AND while pressing the Horn button. You should measure 12v each time the button is pressed. What do you measure? Do you have a wiring diagram for your bike? See you tomorrow!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirfaffalot Posted June 29, 2021 Author Share Posted June 29, 2021 Thanks Grum. I do have a wiring diagram but it’s the Haynes Manual one which is pretty hard to read you’re not electrically minded. I’ll try and find a simpler one. I’ll test the horn and give you feedback. 👍🏻 sleep well pal, cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirfaffalot Posted June 29, 2021 Author Share Posted June 29, 2021 So…. Finally had chance to check to horn wires. light green - 11.55 when horn pressed green - 0.00 when horn pressed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted June 29, 2021 Member Contributer Share Posted June 29, 2021 6 hours ago, Sirfaffalot said: So…. Finally had chance to check to horn wires. light green - 11.55 when horn pressed green - 0.00 when horn pressed Virtually 12v on the Horn wire but no Horn sound.....that's interesting! Will need to verify horn ops and ground wire for it. Horn Test - Grab a length of insulated wire. You're going to attach one end to the Positive of the battery. Remove the Light Green wire from the Horn keeping the Green ground wire connected to the Horn. Now carefully touch the other end of your wire to the terminal on the Horn where the Light Green wire goes to. Make sure you Only touch the wire to the terminal and NOT any part of your bikes frame!!!! (No need to turn ignition on) Does the Horn sound every time you touch the wire to the Horn terminal? Turn Relay - Have established that you should measure 12v on the Black/Brown wire of the Turn Relay with Ignition to On. What voltage do you measure? Bike Checks Also to establish some simple system facts about your bike. This will help to verify some power and grounds involved in your fault areas. 1. Do your headlights operate normally, both hi and lo beam? 2. Do your brake lights operate normally from both front and rear brake application? 3. With your bike in gear, sidestand Up, kill switch to Run, and clutch pulled in. Can you start your bike? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirfaffalot Posted June 30, 2021 Author Share Posted June 30, 2021 Hi Grum, I’m in work at the moment so will follow the steps for horn and relay as soon as I get home. Re the lights: headlights lo and hi work normally bike starts both in neutral and in gear (clutch in, stand up). Haven't checked brakes since a few days ago so will check front and rear applications later too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirfaffalot Posted June 30, 2021 Author Share Posted June 30, 2021 So, in order… horn test - insulated wire from light green wire terminal to +ve battery. horn sounds each time it touches. turn relay - ignition on, red into black/brown grounded on -ve battery 11.15v reading. bike checks headlights hi lo working brake front and rear applications working bike in gear, clutch in, side stand up, kill switch to run - starts fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted June 30, 2021 Member Contributer Share Posted June 30, 2021 Good report back Sirfaffalot. So there is nothing wrong with the horn itself, and by testing the Horn you have also confirmed there is no ground wire fault, this probably also means there is nothing wrong with your Turn Relay. The other checks also confim that Grounds are good. Appears you may have a bad Voltage Drop situation. To confirm this..... Have the horn fully connected. See if you can clip or wedge your black meter lead to the Negative terminal or a known Good Ground. This will free up one hand! - With Ignition to On, again measure the two Fuse test points (make sure you are on the Horn/Turn Signal Fuse). - What Voltage do you measure on the test points When You Press and hold in the Horn Button? If the voltage is low at this point then you have an issue between the Fuse back to the Ignition Switch via the Red/White wire, and with a couple more checks we will locate the fault! Hopefully! If you see above 12v on both fuse test points, while pressing the Horn Button. - Move your red meter lead to the Horn Light Green wire and again measure the voltage as you press the Horn Button (ignition on). Make sure the horn remains connected. Get your probe onto the wire terminal behind its insulated terminal cover or on part of exposed terminal, the horn must remain electrically connected. What voltage do you read when the horn button is pressed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirfaffalot Posted July 5, 2021 Author Share Posted July 5, 2021 Hi Grum, following your instructions: black grounded ignition on red tested on fuse (both points almost 12v) when horn then pressed it drops down to 0.01 on both test points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirfaffalot Posted July 5, 2021 Author Share Posted July 5, 2021 For good measure I tested the connected but exposed light green wire terminal with ignition on and horn pressed. 0.00 before and 0.00 after pressing the horn. as a recap I tested the light green wire removed from terminal - horn off 0.00 / horn on just under 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbear Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 Did you take the handlebar switch control box apart to find out if the contents are in good working order and clean? Maybe clean them with some electrical contact cleaner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted July 5, 2021 Member Contributer Share Posted July 5, 2021 20 hours ago, Sirfaffalot said: Hi Grum, following your instructions: black grounded ignition on red tested on fuse (both points almost 12v) when horn then pressed it drops down to 0.01 on both test points. Excellent results again, exactly as requested. You've discovered the Voltage Drop, caused by a poor high resistance connection somewhere! Make sure you've reconnected the Horn wires. Your fault is between the fuse and the Ignition Switch. 1. Make sure the fuse fits snugly into the fuse box contacts, compare it to an adjacent fuse. 2. Have a look at your wiring diagram and note that the fuse has a Red/White wire that goes to the Ignition Switch. There is a 4P plug it goes through before reaching the Ignition Switch. Locate this plug and separate it, visually check it for good clean connections especially for the Red/White wire. 3. If the connection is good at the 4P connector, you're going to have to remove the ignition switch and probe the Red/white wire connection at the switch. With ignition to on and pressing the Horn button if the voltage drops to near zero, then you have a faulty Ignition Switch. 4. Reconnect your original Turn Relay, you definitely don't have a fault with that. Good luck, the end is near! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted July 5, 2021 Member Contributer Share Posted July 5, 2021 1 hour ago, Kbear said: Did you take the handlebar switch control box apart to find out if the contents are in good working order and clean? Maybe clean them with some electrical contact cleaner? Hi Kbear. Good suggestion for switch ops. But, the switchgear at the handlebar cannot remove 12v power at the Horn/Turn Fuse. Unless there was a short, in which case the fuse would be blowing, however, the OP doesn't have a blown fuse situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbear Posted July 6, 2021 Share Posted July 6, 2021 2 hours ago, Grum said: But, the switchgear at the handlebar cannot remove 12v power at the Horn/Turn Fuse. Could it remove the 12v power if the switch was not making good contact on the contact plates in order to complete the circuit? Just a thought. I've seen dirt and debris reek havoc on electrical contact parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted July 6, 2021 Member Contributer Share Posted July 6, 2021 2 hours ago, Kbear said: Could it remove the 12v power if the switch was not making good contact on the contact plates in order to complete the circuit? Just a thought. I've seen dirt and debris reek havoc on electrical contact parts. Sorry Kbear, absolutely not! If the switch is not making contact then where is the current draw, where could the voltage drop be? Most certainly dirt and crap on switches causes poor contact and voltage drop across the switch, but not voltage drop back at the supply! The fact that the voltage at the fuse drops when pressing the switch means it is trying to work correctly in sending power to the horn. Its this small load be it the Horn or his Turn Relay that is killing the supply voltage. If when pressing the horn button to a known good horn and there are no shorts on power line ( evident by the fuse not blowing ) and the voltage at the fuse itself drops to near zero then there has to be a fault between the fuse and the ignition switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirfaffalot Posted July 6, 2021 Author Share Posted July 6, 2021 Found the 4 pin plug. It had a bit of gunk in it so cleaned it out with WD40 and a white cloth. Pretty grubby!! Re-connected. Then noticed on the diagram a hazard switch next to it. Did the same with that too. Ignition on - horn pressed…. WORKS!!!!!!!! Replaced the relay. nose cone not yet replaced. Hazard lights rear test….. WORKS!!!!! (Normal speed) Indicator lights test….. WORKS!!!! (although flashing faster than normal speed). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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