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Fuel Injection Light on after cutting out


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OK, so strange happening this evening on a 160 mile ride. Was pottering along at around 80 mph on the A1 and the bike suddenly cut out (I saw the Rev counter drop to zero) and a pulled over and let the clutch out on deceleration. The bike restarted and the Fuel Injection light glowed. It then got brighter and brighter. 

Bike ran 100% for the next 100miles. Got to destination and then stopped and restarted. Light was out but then came back on and the tickover is lumpy. 

I haven’t read ECM codes yet.
 

When I arrived at my destination the bike would restart and the FI light stayed on. On one occasion the fuel pump continued to run - it didn’t shut off. 
 

Some are suggesting alternator/rectifier - but how would that impact the fuel injection?

 

Any suggestions? 2002 VTEC.

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35 minutes ago, BSR67 said:

OK, so strange happening this evening on a 160 mile ride. Was pottering along at around 80 mph on the A1 and the bike suddenly cut out (I saw the Rev counter drop to zero) and a pulled over and let the clutch out on deceleration. The bike restarted and the Fuel Injection light glowed. It then got brighter and brighter. 

Bike ran 100% for the next 100miles. Got to destination and then stopped and restarted. Light was out but then came back on and the tickover is lumpy. 

I haven’t read ECM codes yet.
 

When I arrived at my destination the bike would restart and the FI light stayed on. On one occasion the fuel pump continued to run - it didn’t shut off. 
 

Some are suggesting alternator/rectifier - but how would that impact the fuel injection?

 

Any suggestions? 2002 VTEC.

I have checked the ECM codes - 23 - Faulty Oxygen Sensor. 
 

Other Honda makes and models fit? 
 

thx

 

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Hello again BSR67. 

Ok, first thing is have a very close look at Main Fuse B 30amp located next to the Starter Relay. This fuse provides the main power for All your EFI stuff. It can suffer badly from overheating and high resistance connections, check for any heat stress for the fuse and wiring especially in inline connector. See photo.

 

Regards your "alternator/rectifier" concerns. If you can get your bike going confirm your charging voltage with a voltmeter directly on the battery.

What voltage do you read at Idle and 5000rpm?

 

Check these two items and get back to us.

I am also suspicious about bad Grounds for your ECM!

 

EF79D2E6-8E27-4F00-87F3-C99F83E6BE32.thumb.jpeg.09d26801311b53185228c34b60382593.jpeg.jpg

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Hi Grum!

 

Good to speak again! Bike has been faultless until now - and I've covered 650 miles.

 

I'll check the connector as directed.

 

Also, will buy a multi/test meter. As you'll recall I work away from home in the week, so don't have all my tools (and the bike is at work having made the journey last night!). Will get on to Amazon Prime delivery now!

 

Will also check ECM grounds. Could be a lengthy task.

 

Will be back soon,

 

BSR67

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Hi Grum

 

Connections look to be in good shape. Multimeter landing tomorrow. 

 

The bike does run but the FI light stays on. 

 

Will update. 
 

Alex

 

645754E3-AE27-4FC7-B03D-D70139C7D6C8.jpeg

1D28CE9D-2C61-4CA2-99F0-735A95B5580E.jpeg

8198F84B-DF23-464B-981E-383E648C7915.jpeg

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Hi Grum

 

Connections look to be in good shape. Multimeter landing tomorrow. 
 

Will update. 
 

Alex

 

8424ACB7-AF2B-4F2A-8ADF-859D27FB0F5A.jpeg

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Hi Alex. Good to know your bike at least runs and Main Fuse B and its wiring are in good shape.

 

Its really important chasing the fault you have that when referring to the Fi Light, what is the position of your Sidestand?

In the UP position and you have an Active fault or something wrong with the ECM the light will be constantly ON.

In the DOWN position if you have an Active fault the light will flash the code. Do you still have the code 23 flashing? Or is the Fi light just permanently On, irrespective of Sidestand position?

 

A code 23 Oxygen Sensor will not kill your bike or give issues like you're describing. So don't worry about this just yet, you have bigger fish to fry at the moment!

 

When doing the charging voltage test mentioned. Do this in both cold just after start And when the engine has fully heated up.

Also check your Battery Terminals are clean and tight.

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On 6/7/2021 at 3:44 PM, BSR67 said:

Fuel Injection light glowed. It then got brighter and brighter

 

On 6/7/2021 at 3:44 PM, BSR67 said:

Light was out but then came back on and the tickover is lumpy. 

 

On 6/7/2021 at 3:44 PM, BSR67 said:

On one occasion the fuel pump continued to run - it didn’t shut off.

 

Based on these three comments my concern is with the Grounds (three of them) for the ECM at the Light Gray connector B1, B2 both a Green/Pink wires and B14 a Green wire, depending on which version ECM you have.

 

But first check your charging system and battery terminals clean and tight.

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14 hours ago, Grum said:

Hi Alex. Good to know your bike at least runs and Main Fuse B and its wiring are in good shape.

 

Its really important chasing the fault you have that when referring to the Fi Light, what is the position of your Sidestand?

In the UP position and you have an Active fault or something wrong with the ECM the light will be constantly ON.

In the DOWN position if you have an Active fault the light will flash the code. Do you still have the code 23 flashing? Or is the Fi light just permanently On, irrespective of Sidestand position?

 

A code 23 Oxygen Sensor will not kill your bike or give issues like you're describing. So don't worry about this just yet, you have bigger fish to fry at the moment!

 

When doing the charging voltage test mentioned. Do this in both cold just after start And when the engine has fully heated up.

Also check your Battery Terminals are clean and tight.

Hi Grum

 

Fuel Injection light stays on when running with the side stand up. 
 

More digging on earths needed. And maybe the ECM. 

 

Battery terminals are clean and tight (battery replaced a handful of weeks ago during the last round of FI grief!)
 

Amazon Multimeter has landed. Will message voltages later. 

 

Alex

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Hi Grum

 

Here we go:

 

Battery Voltage pre-start (battery off bike) 12.77v

 

Battery Voltage pre-start (battery fitted to bike) 12.77v

 

Battery Voltage immediately post start 14.33v

 

Battery Voltage after approx 5-7 minutes, engine temp 80 centigrade 14.25v

 

Battery Voltage with lights on High Beam after 5-7 minutes, engine temp 80 as before - 12.55v

 

FI light not on. On centre stand. Side stand up. 
 

The only other thing I have done is disconnect these two wires from the +ve and -ve of the battery which I think feed a 12v socket outlet/USB which is not connect at the USB end. The terminating wires are tapped up. 
 

Have checked continuity of 30Amp fuse. 100% OK. They get bloody hot don’t they! 
 

Thanks

 

Alex

4A26E72D-5F04-43B4-A825-674BC629F9E6.jpeg

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I’ve cleared the fault code. FI light stays solid when dealer plug bridged. At the moment FI light goes out after removing bridge ……..!!! 

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Ok, so Charging Voltage measurements! Which ones are at Idle? Which ones are at 5000rpm? As requested!

 

Lets try and move on based on your original fault description and the suspicion of an intermittent faulty Ground.

1. Check these two ground points. Make sure they are well bonded to frame, no damaged wires and they measure Zero ohms/continuity back to the battery negative terminal.

 

IMG_1094.PNG

 

2. Remove your left main fairing and remove the coolant reservoir. Just behind the frame weld taped on the wire harness is this ground junction block. You'll need to expose and inspect it. Remove its cover and a common buss bar that joins all the sockets. Hopefully you'll see something like this with a burnt connection. Take a photo or two, see what you find.

IMG_0970.JPG

IMG_0969.JPG

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Hi Grum

 

Whoops - amateur hour last night! Forgot about the 5,000 readings. 
 

Here they are:

 

Voltage pre-start - 12.69v

Voltage after start at 5k rpm - 14.41v

Voltage at 75 Centigrade and at 5k rpm - 14.39v

 

Resistance between battery negative terminal and frame grounding point - see photo!

 

Will pull side panel this evening. Got to get to work!

 

Thanks Grum - appreciated. 
 

Alex

 

7CA53818-4EF5-4A9E-AF19-6DBF1CF0F4AA.jpeg

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Ok lets forget any issue with your battery or charging system. It appears to be in order!

 

HOWEVER you have your meter on the Wrong scale for measuring continuity! You are actually reading 20ohms on that scale and thats NOT good for a Ground!

 

Recheck those Grounds with meter set to the 200ohms range. The value you should read should be virtually the same as shorting the leads together 00.0 ohms. Again Black lead on negative terminal red lead probing the two Ground points.

If you do read anything like 20 ohms then you have a BAD Ground point.

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Thanks Grum! Amateur hour continues! 😄

 

I'll re-check later today and revert, plus the findings from under the panel.

 

I haven't checked the grounds on the ECM yet - do this at the same time or after the earth bar checks?

 

Thanks

 

Alex

 

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14 hours ago, BSR67 said:

I haven't checked the grounds on the ECM yet - do this at the same time or after the earth bar checks?

Two of the ECM grounds being the Green/Pink wires B1 and B2 possibly are at the rear tank area grounds, do you see at least 2 Green/Pink wires at that Ground point?

The other B14 Ground Green wire possibly goes to that Ground Block.

The block needs to be checked after confirming frame grounds.

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Thanks Grum

 

Will be checking later. Will revert. 

Do you know where an ECM test harness is available? Part number look up doesn’t yield any results. 

 

Alex

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46 minutes ago, BSR67 said:

I'll re-check later today and revert,

 

14 minutes ago, BSR67 said:

Will be checking later. Will revert

Mate, you're doing a lot of reverting! Reverting what? Or do you mean report?

Is it still Amateur hour? Or is there something in your drink at the moment:wacko:

 

Dont worry about an ECM test harness....hopefully you'll never need or use one!

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I mean report back! Wish I was having a drink!!!!! 😀

 

I’ll report back later ….!!!!!!

 

Alex

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Hi Grum

 

I’m going to be reporting back early next week. I’ve investigated, found the plug but only have basic tools here so need to collect a load from home at the weekend to allow me to remove more parts. 
 

The plug is hard to access - I need to remove the airbox etc to improve access. 
 

Back soon. 
 

alex

 

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10 hours ago, BSR67 said:

The plug is hard to access - I need to remove the airbox etc to improve access. 

 

This is becoming a little frustrating!

Until you confirm the frame grounds as in step 1 are either good or bad, you don't need to be jumping into step 2 with the harness ground block. Your problem just might be only with the frame Grounds! Particularly when your meter, even on the wrong range was indicating 20 ohms resistance, absolutely no good for a ground!

 

So, is there anything to report regards properly measuring the two frame Grounds, and if you can confirm there are two Green/pink wires at that point as mentioned?

 

Are you sure there's not enough flex in the harness to access the ground block as per photo?

Can you see a cable tie anywhere that you could remove that may allow better access by allowing you to carefully pull the harness down slightly again as per photos?

 

So again.

1. Confirm Frame Grounds are good or bad back to battery negative.

2. Inspect the harness Ground Block for any defects, refer photos.

3. Confirm the 3 ECM grounds B1, B2 and B14. These must also be well Grounded back to battery negative.

 

Are you able to basically understand/follow what we are doing via the wiring diagram which I trust you have?

Also by at least confirming the color codes of the ECM Grounds mentioned will mean I'm also working from a correct circuit diagram.

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, Grum said:

 

This is becoming a little frustrating!

Until you confirm the frame grounds as in step 1 are either good or bad, you don't need to be jumping into step 2 with the harness ground block. Your problem just might be only with the frame Grounds! Particularly when your meter, even on the wrong range was indicating 20 ohms resistance, absolutely no good for a ground!

 

So, is there anything to report regards properly measuring the two frame Grounds, and if you can confirm there are two Green/pink wires at that point as mentioned?

 

Are you sure there's not enough flex in the harness to access the ground block as per photo?

Can you see a cable tie anywhere that you could remove that may allow better access by allowing you to carefully pull the harness down slightly again as per photos?

 

So again.

1. Confirm Frame Grounds are good or bad back to battery negative.

2. Inspect the harness Ground Block for any defects, refer photos.

3. Confirm the 3 ECM grounds B1, B2 and B14. These must also be well Grounded back to battery negative.

 

Are you able to basically understand/follow what we are doing via the wiring diagram which I trust you have?

Also by at least confirming the color codes of the ECM Grounds mentioned will mean I'm also working from a correct circuit diagram.

 

 

 

Hi Grum

 

I will check the frame grounds later today. Didn’t realise 20 Ohms is sufficient to form a bad ground. 
 

I could not see a cable tie on the loom but will recheck. There is just so little slack on it. The plug is bound up in insulating tape, right?
 

Will follow the steps. And understand the methodology. 
 

thx

 

 


 

 

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Hi Grum

 

A small step. 
 

Photograph attached of ground anchor point left hand side of the bike (as you sit on it). It shows the two green/pink wires. Also two further green wires. 
 

The second photograph shows the battery ground bolted to the frame cross member. 
 

ALL readings (black multimeter lead on battery negative, red lead to anchor bolts/copper/steel connectors and to alloy frame immediately next to the anchor points) are the SAME as touching the two multimeter leads together - on 200 ohm gauge the reading is 0.08 ohms. The ground function is consistent and works. 
 

I have cleaned all spade ends and frame mounting points with grit paper as a precaution. All readings are the same at 0.08 after cleaning. The photographs are before cleaning. 
 

Thanks

 

Alex

 

88404B23-80E0-4BA3-937B-5F61914897A0.jpeg

5B896F9F-6954-4E09-9765-ACBD5E4AF223.jpeg

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Step 2

 

Here is the earth block. I’ve unwrapped it. It is far easier to access from the top. 
 

Going to separate the cap shortly. 
 

alex

 

398BBE2E-4E7E-41DB-A917-3CF487B1A25E.jpeg

2FCCF047-7101-4EB0-ADB2-FA5C1B5B149B.jpeg

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Stage 2 continued. 
 

Plug exposed. Some light scorching. 
 

The lightly scorched terminals across from one another read 0.08 ohms when linked back to the battery negative. Others give no reading. Some are Differing values. Video to follow. 

 

Thanks

 

Alex

 

3610B151-795E-400C-82DB-E030FA2C15DE.jpeg

CDC2B444-D127-434D-9AC5-FA6F7D78A980.jpeg

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