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71Rob

weirdness

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1 minute ago, Grum said:

Keep us posted on how you go PLEASE.

will do buddy

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tested the two main fuses and the clock fuse for continuity and all are good, I'm really hoping that the battery has decided to take a shit

 

 

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If it was a really cold cold night the night before it could be the battery. Had same prob with my rt.  new battery no probs. 

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Well the battery didn't take a shit after all, not really sure where to go or what to do now

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2 hours ago, 71Rob said:

Well the battery didn't take a shit after all, not really sure where to go or what to do now

Ok well that's a surprise, you were probably not far off needing a new battery anyhow.

Why do you say " not sure where to go or what to do now"?????

Suggestions have been made as to what to check! You sound like you are competent with a multimeter. You stated you have confirmed your Grounds are good.

So use your meter and the drawing supplied simpy check you have 12v coming from your Ignition Switch when turned ON. Get back to us with what you find.

It appears nothing is being powered beyond your ignition switch so it and its wiring is what needs checking!

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Check the wiring harness ground point (usually to engine somewhere), partial or complete loss of path-to-ground can cause weirdness.

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7 minutes ago, Grum said:

Ok well that's a surprise, you were probably not far off needing a new battery anyhow.

Why do you say " not sure where to go or what to do now"?????

Suggestions have been made as to what to check! You sound like you are competent with a multimeter. You stated you have confirmed your Grounds are good.

So use your meter and the drawing supplied simpy check you have 12v coming from your Ignition Switch when turned ON. Get back to us with what you find.

It appears nothing is being powered beyond your ignition switch so it and its wiring is what needs checking!

 I'll be on the case first thing in the morning if it is the ignition switch i then have the task of trying to find one, the few dealers over here have them as no stock or on backorder

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2 minutes ago, GreginDenver said:

Check the wiring harness ground point (usually to engine somewhere), partial or complete loss of path-to-ground can cause weirdness.

 will do that again, just to make sure

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5 minutes ago, 71Rob said:

 will do that again, just to make sure

Sorry, thought you said Grounds are "all tight as a duck arse and nothing broken".

The 8gen Ignition Switch is a simple one, just a single pole On/Off, it may just be the wiring or connections to and from the switch. All will be revealed soon no doubt. Good luck.

 

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28 minutes ago, Grum said:

Sorry, thought you said Grounds are "all tight as a duck arse and nothing broken".

The 8gen Ignition Switch is a simple one, just a single pole On/Off, it may just be the wiring or connections to and from the switch. All will be revealed soon no doubt. Good luck.

 

 yes i did say that and they are, but i will check again just to be sure, i had forgotten what you had said about checking the ignition switch in your earlier post with the wiring diagrams in it, and i will let you know what's happening, just getting a bit stressed as i can't get to work and we are really busy at the moment

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20 hours ago, 71Rob said:

tested the two main fuses and the clock fuse for continuity and all are good, I'm really hoping that the battery has decided to take a shit

 

 

When I mentioned the Clock/Haz Fuse It was to measure the Voltage at the fuse. All the fuses have tiny exposed metering points on the top of them allowing you to probe the voltage Both sides of the fuse without needing to remove it.

"Here's a simple voltage check, locate your Clock/Haz 10amp Fuse (R/H Fuse Box), probe it with your voltmeter if you have 12v then the Main Fuse 30amp is OK. Now turn Ignition to ON and measure 12v at the Tail/Meter/Turn 10amp Fuse (L/H Fuse Box) NO 12v = Faulty Ignition Switch or wiring".

 

IF YOU DO NOT HAVE 12V AT THE CLOCK/HAZ FUSE THEN YOUR ISSUE IS NOT THE IGNITION SWITCH. Go back further and thourghly check the wiring around your Starter Relay. Make sure you are measuring 12v on the two Main Fuses at the Starter Relay. Check the wiring going in and out of the Starter Relay. Follow the 12v from the battery to each connecting point all the way to the Ignition Switch, you will find a problem within this area, and should be an easy one to find!

 

If you've no blown fuses, then that's a good sign, means you have no shorts so hopefully no burnt/damaged wiring or shorted component.

 

Handy Info..... Being able to measure the absence or presence of Voltage at the Fuse and both sides of the fuse, apart from telling you if the fuse is open circuit (voltage only one side), it's a very easy, convienent way of checking your 12v power distribution.

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8 hours ago, Grum said:

When I mentioned the Clock/Haz Fuse It was to measure the Voltage at the fuse. All the fuses have tiny exposed metering points on the top of them allowing you to probe the voltage Both sides of the fuse without needing to remove it.

"Here's a simple voltage check, locate your Clock/Haz 10amp Fuse (R/H Fuse Box), probe it with your voltmeter if you have 12v then the Main Fuse 30amp is OK. Now turn Ignition to ON and measure 12v at the Tail/Meter/Turn 10amp Fuse (L/H Fuse Box) NO 12v = Faulty Ignition Switch or wiring".

 

IF YOU DO NOT HAVE 12V AT THE CLOCK/HAZ FUSE THEN YOUR ISSUE IS NOT THE IGNITION SWITCH. Go back further and thourghly check the wiring around your Starter Relay. Make sure you are measuring 12v on the two Main Fuses at the Starter Relay. Check the wiring going in and out of the Starter Relay. Follow the 12v from the battery to each connecting point all the way to the Ignition Switch, you will find a problem within this area, and should be an easy one to find!

 

If you've no blown fuses, then that's a good sign, means you have no shorts so hopefully no burnt/damaged wiring or shorted component.

 

Handy Info..... Being able to measure the absence or presence of Voltage at the Fuse and both sides of the fuse, apart from telling you if the fuse is open circuit (voltage only one side), it's a very easy, convienent way of checking your 12v power distribution.

thanks for that can i assume that its measured with the ignition in the off position ?

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23 minutes ago, 71Rob said:

thanks for that can i assume that its measured with the ignition in the off position ?

Yes checking the 12v at the Clock/Haz Fuse is with Ignition OFF. It's a permanently powered supply not through the Ignition Switch!

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1 hour ago, Grum said:

Yes checking the 12v at the Clock/Haz Fuse is with Ignition OFF. It's a permanently powered supply not through the Ignition Switch!

progress, checked the previous 2 mentioned fuses with ignition on and off, no voltage in either case, checked the two main leads that go to the starter relay and there is 13 volts there, checked the fuses on top of the relay with the ignition off and no voltage, checked again with ignition on and again no voltage,  so could it be either the starter relay or the ignition switch ?

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23 minutes ago, 71Rob said:

progress, checked the previous 2 mentioned fuses with ignition on and off, no voltage in either case, checked the two main leads that go to the starter relay and there is 13 volts there, checked the fuses on top of the relay with the ignition off and no voltage, checked again with ignition on and again no voltage,  so could it be either the starter relay or the ignition switch ?

Ok, forget the Ignition Switch your problem is at the Starter Relay. Disconnect a lead from your battery. Now lift up the Starter Relay, make sure all connections are good and the main positive heavy leads tight. I am not sure how the 12v gets from the main heavy 12v input lead to the fuses, but you must have 12v at both fuses at the Starter Relay. Give the relay and its wiring a good check over. Hopefully you'll find something. Good luck.

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19 minutes ago, Grum said:

Ok, forget the Ignition Switch your problem is at the Starter Relay. Disconnect a lead from your battery. Now lift up the Starter Relay, make sure all connections are good and the main positive heavy leads tight. I am not sure how the 12v gets from the main heavy 12v input lead, but you must have 12v at both fuses at the Starter Relay. Give the relay and its wiring a good check over. Hopefully you'll find something. Good luck.

checked and re checked, nothing obvious both main leads are tight nothing broken, reconnected the battery and tested again with a multi meter 13 volts at main leads nothing at fuses, removed the plug and tested there too and surprise surprise no voltage, not sure if it can be tested in any other way but i think I'm gonna bite the bullet and get another relay, substitution is really the only way now

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Here's a graphic of the relay. You can see there is just a link to the fuses off the Red/ Yellow wire(the main lead coming from Battery Positive). This is what you seem to be missing. Try removing the relay and check continuity based on this drawing. It's just the physical 12v connection to the fuses you are missing.

Don't be concerned about the relay coil or its Starter Motor function, that is not an issue at this stage.

It's simply just seeing why the main 12v coming in is not connected to the fuses. Perhaps the metal link between the Main Positive In wire and fuses is broken or just not making good contact, you should be able to establish why this is the case!

I can't put it any simpler than that, you may not need to replace the complete relay just to sort out this missing link! However if you purchase a new one it should have you up and running!!!!!

 

image.png

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On 9/18/2019 at 10:52 AM, Grum said:

Here's a graphic of the relay. You can see there is just a link to the fuses off the Red/ Yellow wire(the main lead coming from Battery Positive). This is what you seem to be missing. Try removing the relay and check continuity based on this drawing. It's just the physical 12v connection to the fuses you are missing.

Don't be concerned about the relay coil or its Starter Motor function, that is not an issue at this stage.

It's simply just seeing why the main 12v coming in is not connected to the fuses. Perhaps the metal link between the Main Positive In wire and fuses is broken or just not making good contact, you should be able to establish why this is the case!

I can't put it any simpler than that, you may not need to replace the complete relay just to sort out this missing link! However if you purchase a new one it should have you up and running!!!!!

 

image.png

tested for continuity on the main terminals in, open circuit, tested for continuity from the linked terminal to each fuse, continuity on right hand side of 20 amp fuse and the same on the left hand side of the 30 amp fuse, open circuit on the other side of both fuses. and open circuit on both sides of both fuses when tested from the unlinked main terminal

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fitted the new one, still the same....fuck, starting to think its the ignition switch now as the hiss light doesn't even blink anymore

 

 

Edited by 71Rob
additional txt

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53 minutes ago, 71Rob said:

tested for continuity on the main terminals in, open circuit, tested for continuity from the linked terminal to each fuse, continuity on right hand side of 20 amp fuse and the same on the left hand side of the 30 amp fuse, open circuit on the other side of both fuses. and open circuit on both sides of both fuses when tested from the unlinked main terminal

 

43 minutes ago, 71Rob said:

fitted the new one, still the same....fuck, starting to think its the ignition switch now as the hiss light doesn't even blink anymore

 

 

M8. You're doing my head in! I'm not sure you understand the Starter Relay concept and where the Ignition Switch fits into the power circuit. Even with the supplied drawings.

The Ignition Switch is downstream beyond the main fuses where you state you have No Power! 

The HISS led is Not powered via the Ignition Switch, that should be fairly obvious because the HISS light flashes when you turn off your ignition! 

Testing for continuity on the Main Terminals of the Starter Relay you'd better hope it was Open Circuit otherwise your starter motor would be running!!!!!

Now from what you are saying about the two main fuses is that you correctly have continuity from the main incoming terminal to one side but NOT the other of each fuse, that equals two blown fuses!!!!!!!

I've said this before, your issue will be a very simple one, provided you follow the basic flow of the positive power from the battery, to the main fuses, to the in and out of the ignition switch and so on. 

 

The "weirdness" for me is that you are not following or understanding the info and drawings supplied. Sorry, but I just can't offer any further info, maybe someone else could explain things better.

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16 minutes ago, Grum said:

 

M8. You're doing my head in! I'm not sure you understand the Starter Relay concept and where the Ignition Switch fits into the power circuit. Even with the supplied drawings.

The Ignition Switch is downstream beyond the main fuses where you state you have No Power! 

The HISS led is Not powered via the Ignition Switch.

Testing for continuity on the Main Terminals of the Starter Relay you'd better hope it was Open Circuit otherwise your starter motor would be running!!!!!

Now from what you are saying about the two main fuses is that you correctly have continuity from the main incoming terminal to one side but NOT the other of each fuse, that equals two blown fuses!!!!!!!

I've said this before, your issue will be a very simple one, provided you follow the basic flow of the positive power from the battery, to the main fuses, to the in and out of the ignition switch and so on. 

i understand what you have told me, i have tested the fuses countless times they both have continuity not open circuit i first tested the relay without the fuses, both had open circuit  on one side then tested again with fuses in place this time continuity both sides hence no blown fuses, just tested the new relay in exactly the same way and its the same

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Step - 1.

With your NEW Starter Relay fitted and battery connected. Your voltmeter Black lead on the Negative battery terminal and the Red lead probing the Main Fuses. DO YOU HAVE 12V AT THE TWO TEST POINTS ON THE TOP OF THE TWO MAIN FUSES? Yes or No?

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4 minutes ago, Grum said:

With your NEW Starter Relay fitted and battery connected. DO YOU HAVE 12V AT THE TWO TEST POINTS ON THE TOP OF THE TWO MAIN FUSES? Yes or no.

relay terminals yes, fuses no same as last time, removed both new fuses tested those too both have continuity

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16 minutes ago, 71Rob said:

relay terminals yes, fuses no same as last time, removed both new fuses tested those too both have continuity

Step - 2.

Remove both fuses. Again with your Red lead probe the two fuse contacts on the relay for each fuse. Do you get 12v on one side for each fuse?

You should Only be seeing 12v on the One main relay terminal! Not terminals plural!

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