Impressions Of Held Carese Ii, Torno Ii, Phantom Ii Gear

[Q-Dawg]

So after a lot of head scratching and looking around, I decided I wanted some better gear this time around.

My 3 year old Joe Rocket Alter Ego (Canadian version 11.0) is falling apart at the seams, even though it has seen only moderate use and is well cared for. This news happening on the tail of Erin (Dragonfly's) older Joe Rocket gear falling apart in the same way a year previous (it was almost 8 years old but had been stored indoors and only used 6 times.) Joe Rocket's customer service was about as unhelpful and hostile to me as they could be. Although they were not legally obligated to do anything in either case (warranty was over) I felt that as a loyal customer (I had bought 3 sets of their gear at that point) I deserved some sort of assistance in the matter from their company. They offered absolutely no help in any way, informing me that I was outside their warranty period and that was my tough luck. So I thanked them for their time and informed them I was no longer one of their customers in that case.

Fast forward to a month ago: shopping for replacements. Other jacket considerations were the Rev'it Defender, Rev'it Poseidon, Klim Latitude Misano, Dainese D-Explorer, but in the end I kept coming back to the Held Carese II. Maybe it was a poor choice, but I am not crazy about the "crunchy" texture of many of the GoreTex outer shells, and I liked the ability to pull the GoreTex liner out of the Carese and open it up for ventilation. I didn't want huge mesh panels for a couple reasons: hard to care for and clean mesh, did not feel as well protected by mesh, and most importantly I wanted ability to tune my ventilation on the fly with numerous vents rather than large zip-off panels.

I got the Held gear order in the mail about a week ago. The following link will take you to my update on the other thread where I updated with my impressions of the Held jacket and pants:

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/80281-opinions-on-held-klim-olympia-rukka-riding-gear/page-2

As for the gloves, I was initially going to go with the Held GoreTex products, trying to decide between RaceTex or the Air N Dry gloves, as a do-it-all compromise between a wet weather and dry glove. Then I ended up doing my shopping on the http://www.motoin.de website (these were the best prices I found for the Held products, and reasonable shipping charges, but be warned the customs fees and taxes were high - still a great deal as I saved a few hundred dollars) and I spent enough in total to qualify for a "freebie" set of wet riding gloves (Acerbis Balling glove), so I changed my mind on the Held glove choices and decided to not compromise. I elected to go with a dry weather only option, and liked the Phantom II for its bulletproof protection, while still getting good reviews for comfort.

Again, I followed Held sizing advice (sort of) and found myself on the edge of sizing size 9.5 (my hand measurement was 9.25 to 9.5" depending on how I measured - on surface or in the air) so I decided to err on large side and ordered a 10. They are too big. The fingers almost work perfectly, but are a hair too long. Still perfectly comfortable, but the thumb is the biggest issue. Too long by a significant amount. Decided to order the 9.5 and return the 10. I doubt it will fix the thumb completely as the Held Phantom II is known for oversize thumb, but if it is improved by 50% in the thumb fit, it shall be adequate; I would rather have too much room than not enough in the thumb. Ask me how I know. Spent too many days trying to break in some stubborn gloves in thumb area, hand kept going numb. A few wet cycles later, it worked out, but not fun. So this is not my final impression yet, but I expect the Held Phantom II in size 9.5 to fit more like a glove should fit. The size 9.5 is exactly what the Held sizing chart suggested. Oh well, getting the jacket and pants size correct but goofing on the gloves wasn't doing too badly I figure.

One other thing to note about the Phantom II is that is is a gauntlet style glove. As a gauntlet, it fails a bit for the following reason: the upper chamber above the wrist is that perfectly wrong size which is exactly the same as my jacket (other people besides me have run into this issue on the Held gloves) and the consequence results in a glove that does not fit easily over, OR under the jacket cuff. But it does work with a little extra effort.

Still this glove feels like a quality piece of gear and is easily the most comfortable glove I have thrown onto my hand, beating my broken in current gloves the instant I put it on (keep in mind, this was for the oversized 10, but I expect the 9,5 to be a closer fit without being too tight anywhere), so while I have a couple complaints, they are minor and I only share them for the purposes of keeping others informed on some possible areas of concern in the fitment of these items.

[Dutchy]

So I reckon that company is no longer called Joe Rocket but Joe Suckit? :-)

[Rectaltronics]

Good post. Sometimes customer support can be a "YMMV" kinda' thing. I had a mesh Joe Rocket jacket that was well out of warranty but not used much, and the armor was self-destructing. After a while it was crumbling too much for the gaffer's tape to do anything so I called 'em up to see if I could buy what I needed and they cheerfully sent me a new set of armor inserts gratis, and they are holding up well. Maybe the offices north of the border are a bit different.

I have short thumbs so I almost routinely take my gloves to the local shoe repair to get the thumbs shortened. Held makes some nice stuff, infamous for comfort with the kangaroo hide but very expensive. I am fortunate to live near the Rev'It offices so these days I wait for their sample sales. ;-) Rev'It by the way are also fairly awesome in the customer service department. I failed to notice that a jacket I picked up for less than half price and sold "as-is" was missing a piece of armor. Called weeks later and while they sounded just slightly annoyed even tough I offered up front to pay for it, they too managed to toss a replacement in an envelope for me gratis.

My 2c. Good luck!

[Q-Dawg]

Good post. Sometimes customer support can be a "YMMV" kinda' thing. I had a mesh Joe Rocket jacket that was well out of warranty but not used much, and the armor was self-destructing. After a while it was crumbling too much for the gaffer's tape to do anything so I called 'em up to see if I could buy what I needed and they cheerfully sent me a new set of armor inserts gratis, and they are holding up well. Maybe the offices north of the border are a bit different.

I have short thumbs so I almost routinely take my gloves to the local shoe repair to get the thumbs shortened. Held makes some nice stuff, infamous for comfort with the kangaroo hide but very expensive. I am fortunate to live near the Rev'It offices so these days I wait for their sample sales. ;-) Rev'It by the way are also fairly awesome in the customer service department. I failed to notice that a jacket I picked up for less than half price and sold "as-is" was missing a piece of armor. Called weeks later and while they sounded just slightly annoyed even tough I offered up front to pay for it, they too managed to toss a replacement in an envelope for me gratis.

My 2c. Good luck!

I've had hit and miss experiences with various different companies. Usually when I explain a situation like this, I get SOME sort of effort to meet in the middle or help me out, but in these cases, nada, zero, zilch. Even though I sent pictures showing gear that was in showroom condition still, other than the damage in question. Maybe it just wasn't meant to be. Honestly, I think I would have been done with JR as a company anyhow, simply for the fact that their gear doesn't hold up well over time. In my mind, there's no good reason why gear that has never even seen water or dirt should be falling apart after 6 trips (about 5 days worth of riding on the bike).

I almost pulled the trigger on some of the Rev'it gear, they look to be a great company. Great to hear their customer service is good too.

BTW, what an interesting username you have........, haha! Reminds me of an old VFRD thread several years ago where everyone was explaining what their username meant. I learned some things from reading that thread, like what a "merkin" is. (lurkinmerkin)

Isn't it funny how you remember the useless things in life without any effort?

[12bravo]

So I reckon that company is no longer called Joe Rocket but Joe Suckit? :-)

Pretty much just disposable crap.

Here's your gear...

Buy once, cry once

http://www.aerostich.com/jackets-pants/roadcrafter

[vulgar1]

I have to endorse the aerostich gear. You pay for it, but it will last forever. My wife and I have had ours for 3 years and we love them. They keep us dry and safe year round in the PNW. If I wrecked in it and it was ruined I would order a new one.

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