KEEP AWAY - Blue Ant F4 Motorcycle Intercom

[wrwaustralia]

Hi Guys and Girls,

Just doing a little research into a Wireless Stereo Intercom.

I need something that will accept Bluetooth from GPS, mobile phone and iPod.

The Blue Ant F4 Wireless Bluetooth Motorcycle Stereo Intercom looked to be the perfect answer and being made in my own home town of Melbourne, Australia expected it to be of the best quality

(Staintune Exhaust's are another example of Australian quality along with Rear Huggers from Geelong Carbon) expensive but you pay for quality.

Anyway ... at AUD $325.00 I thought the Blue Ant F4 was reasonably priced ... BUT

(a) The battery has only an expected 2-3 life span .. that's OK

(b) The unit is factory seals (waterproof).... that's OK

© The battery is not replacable by the factory or owner .... that's BAD

I made two telephone calls and two emails to Blue Ant and was basically told to "go away" and if I wasn't happy with the product DON"T BUY IT.

I explained who wants to pay AUD $325.00 for a product that is throw-away after 2-3 years !!!

Now I'm looking to find a "Rider Only" Wireless Bluetooth Intercom that meets my needs ... any ideals ?????

[Serenity_VFR]

:fing02:

That's some customer service!

You got TARP in OZ? Sounds like this company will be needing it soon the way they run things. :bliss:

[kaldek]

© The battery is not replacable by the factory or owner .... that's BAD

This is a common problem with many consumer devices today. A case in point here is Apple iPods. They use an internal Lithium-Polymer (LiPo) battery and if you mistreat the battery it will not last. The batteries are only replaceable on the bigger iPods and iPhones, not on the iPod Nano. They figure for the price you can just buy another iPod when the battery dies and deal with it.

The reason the batteries are not replaceable is that there is no common standard for LiPo batteries which you can easily source. It's not like you can just drop in an AAA battery - the form factor and weight of the battery in the Blue Ant device may not be something you can find on the market in a few years.

Here is the secret though - you can make any LiPo battery last for a every long time. These batteries have an approximate maximum number of charge cycles, which basically means it going flat and you recharging it. Now if you don't let it get down to less than 40% of capacity, you don't consume a charge cycle when you recharge it!

To keep things short, the basic rules of LiPo battery technology are:

• Letting them go flat consumes a charge cycle
  
• Keeping them fully charge and unused for a long time stresses the battery chemistry, causing it to permamently lose capacity.
  

Given this, the best thing to do with any LiPo battery device is not let it go completely flat before recharging, and to make sure that then you fully charge it, you use it within a few days. It should then last more than 3 years.

[VFRSuperfreak]

Hi Guys and Girls,

/snip

Just doing a little research into a Wireless Stereo Intercom.

Now I'm looking to find a "Rider Only" Wireless Bluetooth Intercom that meets my needs ... any ideals ?????

Here's an Ideal, let me know if you try them!, I especially like that Oakley includes options for lenses...

[Ryanme17]

The reason the batteries are not replaceable is that there is no common standard for LiPo batteries which you can easily source.

Eh, that's the excuse, the real reason is that it is planned obsolescence. Apple wants you to buy a new Ipod every year, and Blue Ant wants you to buy a new intercom every two years. So you check on getting a new battery and instead get a sales pitch about how much better the new model is, even if you were perfectly satisfied with your old one. Would ordering a new battery from the factory really be that hard? Your only worth to some companies is as a consumer who spends $$$. I would shop elsewhere, as many intercoms do have this feature.

[Guest]

Hi Guys and Girls,

Just doing a little research into a Wireless Stereo Intercom.

I need something that will accept Bluetooth from GPS, mobile phone and iPod.

You may already know this, but a lot of the intercom systems will only connect to a limited number of devices at a time. The Blueant F4 is the only one I know of that claims to be able to pair two phones (or a phone and a GPS) at the same time. Most others if you want to pair a phone and a GPS you need to pair the phone to the GPS and then pair the GPS to the headset, because they both use the same profile and most devices only have one channel available for that profile. You also have to look at how they prioritize the different sources, not all of them are handled the same way.

I have a set of the cheap Chinese no-name BT Multi-Interphones from Ebay. The intercoms work great, and I can pair with an A2DP audio player or GPS, but I can't switch between intercom and audio without disconnecting from the audio source. I wouldn't recommend them if you want to use multiple pairings.

I've ordered a set of Midland BT2, they are due to arrive today. Reviews say they should work a little better.

Also take a look at the SENA SMH-10 and Cardo Scala Rider G4, two more options. I don't think batteries are replaceable on any of them, so you're SOL. When mine need new batteries, I will find a way to replace them.

Edit: I just got the BT2 intercoms. Of course the first thing I did is take one apart. They are not advertised as having replaceable batteries, but they are easy to open up to access the battery. The LiPo battery looks like a stick of gum and is soldered in via two wires. It should not be a problem to find a suitable replacement when the time comes.

[NorthernVFRDave]

Scala Rider G4, is a full A2DP system that stupport mulit-connections and alows you to switch between them.

Scala Rider

[Knife]

Scala Rider G4, is a full A2DP system that stupport mulit-connections and alows you to switch between them.

Scala Rider

If you can get this in OZ, you'll have everything you want. Stereo, too!

[Guest]

Scala Rider G4, is a full A2DP system that stupport mulit-connections and alows you to switch between them.

Scala Rider

All of the latest generation BT headsets support A2DP and AVRCP (remote control) and they all allow you to switch between connections. The advertising B.S. will have you believe that you can call the moon, but you need to dig deeper to really understand what they can and can't do. When they say they can pair up to 8 devices (Interphone F4) that doesn't mean they can be connected to 8 devices. It just means they memorize 8 device IDs and connect to them automatically when there is an open channel and they are within range. A phone's BT ID will usually prevent it from pairing on a low priority A2DP channel, but some phones will consume the A2DP channel in addition to the high priority hands-free channel, leaving you with no other connection options except for the wired aux jack. Some GPS use headset profile and some use A2DP (stereo headset) profile. Some headsets like the XBi2 allow a GPS BT ID to connect to a low priority channel and others like BT2 do not. Each one has different limitations, they don't all work as expected with all devices, and not all device combinations are guaranteed to work. If you just read the box and don't understand the limitations beforehand you may be very disappointed.

The Scala Rider G4 has 4 bluetooth channels. It has one high priority channel for phone or GPS, two medium priority intercom channels to connect to other Scala Riders, and one low priority A2DP channel. The only way to connect a phone and a GPS is to pair the phone to the GPS using the Handsfree profile, then pair the GPS to the G4. This is a direct quote from the Scala Rider G4 manual:

"NOTE: If you plan to use your mobile phone while using a Bluetooth GPS

device, then you should pair your mobile phone to the GPS and

not to the G4 headset."

The BlueAnt Interphone F4 has one high priority channel for phone, one intercom channel which also supports hand-free profile and allows connecting to a phone, and one low priority A2DP channel. If you connect two phones (or a phone and a GPS) then you cannot use the intercom. From the F4 manual:

"GPS NAVIGATORS use the TELEPHONE (headset) profile for

audio connection: to use a telephone whilst using a navigator,

you will need to use the specific function of the GPS

device."

and...

"In telephones equipped with musical players, and therefore which

include a Stereo (A2DP) profile, the Telephone + Stereo (A2DP) function

coincides. As such, it may not be possible to connect a further Stereo

(A2DP) player."

The Midland BT2 has one high priority channel, one intercom, and one low priority A2DP channel.

"If you pair the BT2 unit with a GPS Sat-Nav, you will not be

able to pair it with a mobile phone, because both these devices

are assigned (high) priority 1.

This problem can be easily solved by pairing the cell phone

directly with the GPS Sat-Nav and by then pairing your GPS

with the Midland BT2. In this case, the cell phone features will

be managed by the GPS Sat-Nav."

The Sena SMH 10 manual is unclear about the number of channels it has available, and how it prioritizes multiple pairings.

The Chatterbox XBi2 has one hands-free channel (phone), two intercom channels, and one A2DP channel (MP3, GPS, radar) according to their manual.

Those are the ones I've researched. I think they are the top choices on the market right now. None of them have replaceable batteries.

[doubled]

Scala Rider G4, is a full A2DP system that stupport mulit-connections and alows you to switch between them.

Scala Rider

All of the latest generation BT headsets support A2DP and AVRCP (remote control) and they all allow you to switch between connections. The advertising B.S. will have you believe that you can call the moon, but you need to dig deeper to really understand what they can and can't do. When they say they can pair up to 8 devices (Interphone F4) that doesn't mean they can be connected to 8 devices. It just means they memorize 8 device IDs and connect to them automatically when there is an open channel and they are within range. A phone's BT ID will usually prevent it from pairing on a low priority A2DP channel, but some phones will consume the A2DP channel in addition to the high priority hands-free channel, leaving you with no other connection options except for the wired aux jack. Some GPS use headset profile and some use A2DP (stereo headset) profile. Some headsets like the XBi2 allow a GPS BT ID to connect to a low priority channel and others like BT2 do not. Each one has different limitations, they don't all work as expected with all devices, and not all device combinations are guaranteed to work. If you just read the box and don't understand the limitations beforehand you may be very disappointed.

The Scala Rider G4 has 4 bluetooth channels. It has one high priority channel for phone or GPS, two medium priority intercom channels to connect to other Scala Riders, and one low priority A2DP channel. The only way to connect a phone and a GPS is to pair the phone to the GPS using the Handsfree profile, then pair the GPS to the G4. This is a direct quote from the Scala Rider G4 manual:

"NOTE: If you plan to use your mobile phone while using a Bluetooth GPS

device, then you should pair your mobile phone to the GPS and

not to the G4 headset."

The BlueAnt Interphone F4 has one high priority channel for phone, one intercom channel which also supports hand-free profile and allows connecting to a phone, and one low priority A2DP channel. If you connect two phones (or a phone and a GPS) then you cannot use the intercom. From the F4 manual:

"GPS NAVIGATORS use the TELEPHONE (headset) profile for

audio connection: to use a telephone whilst using a navigator,

you will need to use the specific function of the GPS

device."

and...

"In telephones equipped with musical players, and therefore which

include a Stereo (A2DP) profile, the Telephone + Stereo (A2DP) function

coincides. As such, it may not be possible to connect a further Stereo

(A2DP) player."

The Midland BT2 has one high priority channel, one intercom, and one low priority A2DP channel.

"If you pair the BT2 unit with a GPS Sat-Nav, you will not be

able to pair it with a mobile phone, because both these devices

are assigned (high) priority 1.

This problem can be easily solved by pairing the cell phone

directly with the GPS Sat-Nav and by then pairing your GPS

with the Midland BT2. In this case, the cell phone features will

be managed by the GPS Sat-Nav."

The Sena SMH 10 manual is unclear about the number of channels it has available, and how it prioritizes multiple pairings.

The Chatterbox XBi2 has one hands-free channel (phone), two intercom channels, and one A2DP channel (MP3, GPS, radar) according to their manual.

Those are the ones I've researched. I think they are the top choices on the market right now. None of them have replaceable batteries.

This is great info; thanks. I've read great reviews about the XBi2. The non-replaceable battery is an issue I wasn't aware of...

---David

[Guest]

If anyone is looking for a good deal, you can get the Midland BT2D (dual pack) for $185 right now from Radio Shack. They are on sale for $199 and there is a current coupon code for $15 off orders of $175 or more. They also have the BT2S single for $130 and BT Rebel for $100. So far they are working as advertised, but just like other reviewers say, the buttons are difficult to locate and use while riding. I'll post a full review when I have some miles on them.

Midland BT2D at Radio Shack

[wrwaustralia]

A reply

Thank you for contacting the Cardo Systems Support Center.

Cardo Systems will soon be announcing a scala-rider Battery Replacement

Program for headsets outside of the 1 year manufacturer's warranty

period and requiring a battery replacement.

Please share your contact information so we may contact you once the

program is launched.

Please feel free to contact us if we can assist you with any other

questions.

Best Regards,

Robert Wargo

Customer Service

www.cardosystems.com

1-800-488-0363

[Guest]

All of the latest generation BT headsets support A2DP and AVRCP (remote control) and they all allow you to switch between connections. The advertising B.S. will have you believe that you can call the moon, but you need to dig deeper to really understand what they can and can't do. When they say they can pair up to 8 devices (Interphone F4) that doesn't mean they can be connected to 8 devices. It just means they memorize 8 device IDs and connect to them automatically when there is an open channel and they are within range. A phone's BT ID will usually prevent it from pairing on a low priority A2DP channel, but some phones will consume the A2DP channel in addition to the high priority hands-free channel, leaving you with no other connection options except for the wired aux jack. Some GPS use headset profile and some use A2DP (stereo headset) profile. Some headsets like the XBi2 allow a GPS BT ID to connect to a low priority channel and others like BT2 do not. Each one has different limitations, they don't all work as expected with all devices, and not all device combinations are guaranteed to work. If you just read the box and don't understand the limitations beforehand you may be very disappointed.

The Scala Rider G4 has 4 bluetooth channels. It has one high priority channel for phone or GPS, two medium priority intercom channels to connect to other Scala Riders, and one low priority A2DP channel. The only way to connect a phone and a GPS is to pair the phone to the GPS using the Handsfree profile, then pair the GPS to the G4. This is a direct quote from the Scala Rider G4 manual:

"NOTE: If you plan to use your mobile phone while using a Bluetooth GPS

device, then you should pair your mobile phone to the GPS and

not to the G4 headset."

The BlueAnt Interphone F4 has one high priority channel for phone, one intercom channel which also supports hand-free profile and allows connecting to a phone, and one low priority A2DP channel. If you connect two phones (or a phone and a GPS) then you cannot use the intercom. From the F4 manual:

"GPS NAVIGATORS use the TELEPHONE (headset) profile for

audio connection: to use a telephone whilst using a navigator,

you will need to use the specific function of the GPS

device."

and...

"In telephones equipped with musical players, and therefore which

include a Stereo (A2DP) profile, the Telephone + Stereo (A2DP) function

coincides. As such, it may not be possible to connect a further Stereo

(A2DP) player."

The Midland BT2 has one high priority channel, one intercom, and one low priority A2DP channel.

"If you pair the BT2 unit with a GPS Sat-Nav, you will not be

able to pair it with a mobile phone, because both these devices

are assigned (high) priority 1.

This problem can be easily solved by pairing the cell phone

directly with the GPS Sat-Nav and by then pairing your GPS

with the Midland BT2. In this case, the cell phone features will

be managed by the GPS Sat-Nav."

The Sena SMH 10 manual is unclear about the number of channels it has available, and how it prioritizes multiple pairings.

The Chatterbox XBi2 has one hands-free channel (phone), two intercom channels, and one A2DP channel (MP3, GPS, radar) according to their manual.

Those are the ones I've researched. I think they are the top choices on the market right now. None of them have replaceable batteries.

This is all amazing info! Why cant the manufactures just clearly explain this in their specs? I scoured the net for hours for this to understand what I am getting in to, and thankfully found this post.

QUESTION: Im planning to hook up a Phone, use Intercom, and hook up a 2-way radio (GMRS) by using a Camos BTA. Which channel would that apply to? The ch 1 priority? or the low prio channel? And if the low prio channel, wouldnt that mean the intercom takes priority over the GMRS??? That doesnt seem right. Likewise, I would not want to try and pair it to ch 1 if I have my phone paired there, else only the phone OR the GMRS would be available (cant have the phone fight the radio, and vice versa).

If what I am describing is not possible, then I think ALL intercom systems out there royally suck. This is a fundamental thing to do in my opinion. GMRS/FRS is a more universal format no matter what the manufacturer. This is how it should be. I can then use a BlueAnt to talk to a Chatterbox, or even to my wife in the car with a handheld FRS. Since we cannot guarantee or anticipate what our friends, family, and community is purchasing as far as manufacture choice, at LEAST we can settle on a common communication protocol, such as GMRS/FRS.

BTW, I also operate mobile HAM radio. Same story. There needs to be a solution here.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

[Guest]

This is all amazing info! Why cant the manufactures just clearly explain this in their specs? I scoured the net for hours for this to understand what I am getting in to, and thankfully found this post.

QUESTION: Im planning to hook up a Phone, use Intercom, and hook up a 2-way radio (GMRS) by using a Camos BTA. Which channel would that apply to? The ch 1 priority? or the low prio channel? And if the low prio channel, wouldnt that mean the intercom takes priority over the GMRS??? That doesnt seem right. Likewise, I would not want to try and pair it to ch 1 if I have my phone paired there, else only the phone OR the GMRS would be available (cant have the phone fight the radio, and vice versa).

If what I am describing is not possible, then I think ALL intercom systems out there royally suck. This is a fundamental thing to do in my opinion. GMRS/FRS is a more universal format no matter what the manufacturer. This is how it should be. I can then use a BlueAnt to talk to a Chatterbox, or even to my wife in the car with a handheld FRS. Since we cannot guarantee or anticipate what our friends, family, and community is purchasing as far as manufacture choice, at LEAST we can settle on a common communication protocol, such as GMRS/FRS.

BTW, I also operate mobile HAM radio. Same story. There needs to be a solution here.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

I would guess that it's going to be difficult to give the GMRS priority over intercoms. It really depends on the Camos BT adapter and whatever headset you choose. You may be able to pair them on a high priority channel, but you won't know until you try. I connect my GPS on the low priority channel and my passenger connects her MP3 player on her low priority channel. Either one can initiate an intercom session, and when we're done talking the GPS/MP3 connection is automatically restored. Will that not work for your GMRS connection?

It is a little disappointing that different brands of headsets can't pair. The technology would allow it, but I suspect the manufacturers use different passcodes to prevent it. GMRS for motorcycle communications is being phased out and I won't miss it at all. I'll gladly trade the long range and universal connectivity of GMRS for small size, full duplex and multiple connections of bluetooth.

FYI, As far as I can tell, the Camos/Whistler BT headsets are VOX only, so I didn't even consider them.

[Guest]

Normally I would not post on a subject like this, too many opinions from riders who have never used an item.

My riding group has used the Chatterbox X-1 for over 10 years with minimal problems.

Some of our new members have purchased the new Bluetooth X-1 and they really like it.

As for the Scalla, we were discussing communications devices wit ha couple at the Cherohala Chevron on Saturday.

We all have the X-1 and regularly see at least three mile range between riders, sometimes five going by mile markers.

But in the mountains, mile markers are useless since the rider may be five miles back but as the crow flies less than two miles.

Anyways, the couple was running the newest Scalla and they were not happy with it.

The range was terrible and the sound quality not so good.