Mystery Electrical Gremlin - Help!

[Guest theSnaab]

So I was cruising to a stop in the Wal Mart parking lot when my bike (1986 VFR700F2) died. I was unable to restart it. Not only that, but nothing electrical would come on...lights, dash lights, anything.

I parked it, checked my battery connections, and when that made no difference, took the battery inside to have the guys in the auto center test it. Tested good, 13 volts. Tried putting it back in the bike, still no electrical life.

I had replaced my R/R with an FET unit many months ago, and it's been running fine. The regulator was not hot (or even warm) to the touch. The inline fuse from the r/r was not blown.

So what does this sound like to people? A blown fuse somewhere else? A wiring problem? If it's the main fuse, where do I find it? There's no service manual for the '86 in the downloads and I'm...um...how do you say...stupid. :fing02:

Also, if the chassis electrical system is indeed fried, can I still bump start the engine to get the bike out of there? (Yes, it's still in the Wal Mart parking lot. I tried bumping it once by myself, but didn't have enough speed to make it a viable effort).

Any help would be greatly appreciated...not sure how long Wal Mart's gonna let me leave it in their lot :cool:

Thanks!!

[Ryanme17]

I have no idea how the older VF's work, as I have a 6th gen, but it sounds like a blown main fuse. If you can't find the info on here, just keep checking fuses on the bike and make sure none are blown!

When you brought the battery in to have it tested, it was charged, correct?

[gll429]

your main fuse is blown.. OR.. the green ground wire on the main harness is not grounded any more. if your bike is still parked some place.. grab some wire and electical tape.. go to the back of the bike. under the seat at the tail lights..disconnect 1 of the 2 conecter.. either a tail light or turn sig.. put the wire into the GREEN wired plug.. then put a wire to the frame..turn key.. if the bike lights up.. you know you need to ground the harness. now either.. splice the wire to the green and bolt it down ot temp splice it with tape and wrap the other ebd around a bolt and tape it in place...thats quick get home in a few min thing.. not a long term fix..

[Guest]

So here's the update...

Sat in the Wal-Mart parking lot all day playing. Found (I think) my Main Fuse (small cylinder located between the battery and the rear brake fluid reservoir?)...fuse was not blown. However, it was almost completely melted. The upper red plug that covers the fuse was melted to lower black plastic piece that the fuse plugs into. Metal connectors were charred.

After separating the melted pieces I cut the red plug (which Honda calls the "Fuse Holder Assembly") off. The wires that had plugged into the fuse plate I wired to an in-line fuse holder with a new fuse. The two rear spade terminals still attached to the cylinder (which Honda enigmatically calls the "Switch") were intact...I ran wire connecting the old plug wires (green w/red stripe, yellow w/red stripe) to the Switch terminals.

And...nothing happened.

I'll try to take some pictures of my ghetto-rig later so you guys can tell me where I screwed it up.

Next I tried the grounding thing...took a lead off the green ground wire going to one of my tail lights, alligator clipped it to the frame. Nothing. Tried running that ground and every other ground I could find on the bike to the frame and even back to the negative terminal on the battery. Nothing.

Strike two.

A few other interesting things that I noted...

1) The "Switch" (part# 35851-MF5-751) looks and acts like a starter solenoid. It has a positive and negative terminal, the positive running to the battery, the negative around to the starter. It has a steady 13 volts running across it (same as the battery). If I try to jump the terminals with a screwdriver (how I used to start a car with a dead solenoid), it does in fact try to crank, whether I have the ignition turned to "On" or not...it also sparks like mad, leaving electrical welts all over my screwdriver. The two spade poles, however, which appear at first glance to just attach to the positive/negative terminals, have no current running across them.

2) There's no power going to my coils. Though there is battery power available, and it is going somewhere (at least through the "Switch"), it is not making it as far as the coils. I hooked my volt meter to the positive and negative lines with the ignition in the "On" position, and got a reading of 0.

Anyway, I gave up on fixing it there and hauled the bike back to my house, so at least I have my tools now. But it is still very dead. Can anybody help me? Are there other fuses I'm missing? I'm supposed to go to Atlanta for the AMA races this weekend, but for the moment I'm stuck

[kaldek]

Anyway, I gave up on fixing it there and hauled the bike back to my house, so at least I have my tools now. But it is still very dead. Can anybody help me? Are there other fuses I'm missing? I'm supposed to go to Atlanta for the AMA races this weekend, but for the moment I'm stuck

When you're on a timeline mate, it's best to get down to an auto electrician and let them deal with it. It will be fixed before the weekend, which is something you can't say for self diagnosis unless you're an electrical whizz!

[kgsmotorcycles]

The solder from the positive battery lead(red usually) on the bottom of my key ignition switch came loose, twice on 2 different bikes, had similar no ignition symptoms.

Worth a look maybe. Hope you find it soon!

[gll429]

did you make sure you put the wires back onto ethe starter relay switch? did you replace the main fuse? if it was melted it may have had a brack you cant see., the main fuse is a 30 amp... so.. if you bropke off the melted crap.. replace the main fuse .. did anything light up? if so.. do you hear a clicking sound when you hit the starter button?

if you get the click click sound.. then you jam the screwdriver in place and ho;d it across the relay untill the bike starts up.. make sure your NOT in gear!! :fing02:

if the 4 wires at the starter relay got toasted up.. wrap them in tape until youi can fix it.. dont wait to long..

oh..

UNWRAP THE 4 WIRES TO THE MAIN HARNESS>> trace them up a bit.. they may have fuzed together further up the harness.. tug on each wiure ..if it moves alittle with out the rest moving.. youir most likely safe on that wire.

[Guest]

Sorry to say, kaldek, but if I had the kinda money an actual shop charges I wouldn't be riding an '86 viffer...well, I probably would, but it wouldn't be my only bike :fing02:

Besides, where's the fun in just taking it in? This is an opportunity to gain knowledge and skin knuckles!

Sorry if I sounded too dire before. I'll borrow a cage for the weekend if I have to...it's just not the same as pulling into the races on two wheels :fing02: ...or one.

[gll429]

you have 13 volts.. but is your battery FULL? up to the line?? take it out and rock it backa nd forth a little you should the water/acid level move..

[Guest]

did you make sure you put the wires back onto ethe starter relay switch? did you replace the main fuse? if it was melted it may have had a brack you cant see.

I think I got all the wires for the relay connected correctly...it looked like the fuse itself only connected to the three front-most wires in the "Fuse Holder Assembly". Two wires to one end of the fuse, the third to the other...all wires were red with stripes.

:fing02: Yes, I just laid it on myself. First thing in the morning I'll post photos of what the heck I'm talking about.

Anyway, pretty sure the fuse bracket didn't connect to anything else in the relay, but you're right, I can't be totally sure because of the melting.

The wires could in fact be fried further up the harness, as you mentioned...they weren't exactly a pretty copper color where I stripped them. Guess I'll cut open the harness and see if I can find a clean point.

No clicking at any point, no lights at all. The bike did try to start when I jumped the relay terminals with a screwdriver, but it was very violent, damaging my screwdriver and giving me a nice puff of smoke that might have been more fried wire.

Battery is a dry cell, and is totally full. Tests good on a battery tester, shows over 13 volts on my meter.

[gll429]

ok...write down of use your phone to take pix of the wire locations.. and peel back all that crap.. i just bet its grounding out.. make sure you ground the green wire at the tail when you hook this all back up.,. the first thing you want is the lights to come on.. dont worry about starting it until that happens.

[gll429]

goodies sent :pissed:

thanks for the dentist money :woohoo:

[Guest]

Here be pictures of my ghetto-rigged wiring:

Yes, I know twist cap connectors aren't ideal, it's just to test the connections with.

Here's the busted red plug from which I took my wiring cues:

I still have yet to chase the wires themselves up the harness further to see if they got burned up. I'm starting to worry that the solution is going to be re-wiring my whole bike.

Could the "Switch" itself be damaged internally and causing my problems?

[Guest]

One other question I'd like to pose, for anybody still following this thread... :laugh:

Any theories on what actually melted my main fuse and plug in the first place? Whether or not it's the root of my electrical failure, there's certainly something wrong to have caused that. Is it possible my updated Regulator/Rectifier is the culprit?

And if it got so hot that the plastic melted, how come the dang fuse didn't blow??

[Guest]

Mine did the same thing April 15th. I have a 1987 vfr 700. I had re charged my battery. Put it back in the bike hit the start button. Motor turned over but did not fire. Started to smell something burning. Looked down and the plastic plug on top of starter selonid was hot and smoking.

Bike was flooded in hurricane Ike. Had the bike brought back to life. I have been riding it time to time. Thought it might have corission in the iginition switch shorting out. I need help getting back in shape.

I'm new to this group so thanks for any help and suggestions.

[gll429]

Mine did the same thing April 15th. I have a 1987 vfr 700. I had re charged my battery. Put it back in the bike hit the start button. Motor turned over but did not fire. Started to smell something burning. Looked down and the plastic plug on top of starter selonid was hot and smoking.

Bike was flooded in hurricane Ike. Had the bike brought back to life. I have been riding it time to time. Thought it might have corission in the iginition switch shorting out. I need help getting back in shape.

I'm new to this group so thanks for any help and suggestions.

first.. make sure you hooked up the batery in the right dirrection.. make sure you have water/acid in the battery..aka you didnt over charge it and boil it dry..

if you have not removed the wires and melted plastic yest.. take a pic of the top ..showing the wire colors and where they go.. next.. try to pry up the melted cap in one peice.. then BREAK it off the wires.. use a smaill angle cutters. .. try to keep the wires and metal connectors whole.. then put the wires in the proper slot..

remove one wire. and trace it up as far as you can see the burnt marks.. then a little more.. slice open the harnessif you need to..temp tape it up..and repeat on the other 3. try to start bike again...

if you hear a CLICK CLICK sound.,. the relay is shot and you need a new one... to start your bike.. get a cheap screw driver and jamm it onever the relay studs.. dont worry about sparks.. get GOOD connact going..

good luck :fing02:

[Guest]

So I had to put the wire stripper down for a few days and work on other stuff, but I have now solved my electrical problem. Thought I'd post my findings here for posterity...

The problem must have in fact been somewhere in the guts of the starter relay (the "Switch") itself. I ripped all the meatball wiring in the above pictures apart and set about trying to swap in a different relay.

I acquired a working relay from an unknown bike (thanks Greg!!), and with some creative wiring and a little color-guessing (yellow with a red stripe is almost the same as yellow with a green stripe...let's connect them!), I managed to get all my functions back. I'll just have to keep an eye on the relay to make sure this one doesn't start melting too. Of course, now I have other things to worry about...my choke lever won't actually shut my choke off anymore. :happy: It's always something...

Anyway, if anyone's curious and wants to see the new setup, let me know and I'll post a pic. Otherwise I'll just assume you're all smarter than me (likely) and call it a day on this thread.

Thanks for all the help!

[gll429]

remove the airbox.. lube the cable to the choke.. lube it by dripping 20 drops of oil down it..

then lube the pivots on the crbs.. just use your thumb to move the choke on the crab.and spray some silcone lube on the sliding parts in all 4 carbs.

ps.. ground the green wire on the main harness at 3 spots.. to the frame.. front,mid and rear.