Help! F.i. Light On And Off With Brakes, Headlights, Increases In Speed... No Difference In Performance...

[Guest mikeym]

Hey All,

I need some help asap, my car is going into the shop soon and my bike is my only transportation... and now i'm getting worried about this. Let me give you a whole history.

I have a 2000 5th gen with approximately 32k on the clock.

I started having F.I. Light problems a few months ago. It happened on a weekend, I thought it was bad gas or clogged injectors since the bike hadn't been ridden in 2 months (or charged) so I ran some seafoam through the tank. It ran like crap for a little bit then got better. I checked the code for the F.I. light, it seemed to indicate a barometric sensor however from what I read I doubt that was correct.

Problems subsided for a few months. I rode the bike here and there.

This past weekend I was on a ride with my girlfriend on the back... I noticed the F.I. light on steady... it wasn't all the way lit, only partially... it got brighter once I increased speed. Then it went out... and came back on a few miles down the road, but this time it came on full bright when I hit the brakes. It was like my F.I. light was a brake light.

When these problems are occurring anytime I hit the brakes the F.I. light will either:

- go out

- come on

On the way to work today all was well until the bike warmed up to about 158-160 degrees and then I noticed at a stoplight that my F.I. light was blinking with my turn signal.

So... where to begin? Does this sound like a R/R issue to you guys? Its most definitely electrical... I'm not sure if its an RR unit issue, ECU, or something else... I have a deal on a R/R unit and will pick that up soon unless I should do something else first.

So heres a quick chart of problems:

- FI light comes on periodically when riding

- When it comes on while riding it increases in intensity with speed (gets brighter when you go faster)

- It goes out with a tap of the brakes

- Sometimes it comes on with a tap of the brakes

- Blinks with the turn signals periodically.

- Sometimes comes on full during idle at a stop... a tap of the brakes will turn it off again for 30 seconds.

I tried to pull codes already but nothing was stored.

Please help me out guys. No cash to take to the dealer... and they probably won't understand it.

~mikeym

[magicman]

Dude, that's f'd.

Sounds like a short somewhere, I'm not familiar with the 5th gen issues, but I bet if you take off your plastics, you may find a burnt/melted connector somewhere... Could also be a poor ground... I'd go from the dash and work backwards towards the ECU.

[Guest]

Hey, Mike - sorry to hear about your troubles. I'm a 6th Gen. guy ('04 ABS), but I have to tell you - your Symptoms are REAL Close to what was happening to ME with My Bike...!!! Most of my initial Problems tied Right into the Same stuff with the FI Light. Kind of like a "Check Engine" light, maybe?

AnyWay - on our 6th Gen bike's (thru '05) there is a Recall to do with part of the Wiring Harness. Once that got done (and I had to Limp mine home 40+ miles to the Dealer's garage & let it sit until he got to it. I was Almost ready to call a Flat bed & it Still took me almost 2 hrs), there have been essentially no Problems.

SO - I don't know for sure. but don't Think there's any Recall issues for you, but there may Well be Wiring Harness issues.

My Best suggestion right now is to read this thread:

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.p...&hl=vfrness

Would like to suggest this is a good place to start, and maye the Best place to start. Hopefully, one or more of the Elec. guys will be in on this soon.

Sorry for your trouble, and best of luck. I'm sure Help is on the Way! :biggrin:

[Guest]

thanks for the replies so far guys... if any 5th gen guys can step in that would be great.

I have NO electrical experience at all and am confused by how all these readings go and electrical work in general to be quite frank.

I have a cheap-o volt meter from Harbor Freight and hooked that up to some spots on the bike with the fairings off...

I had some options what to put it on (DCV, ACV, DCA, Ohm)... with no instructions I opted for the DCV 20 and DCV 200 options although I believe they are one in the same... I took both just incase)

I conducted all these tests with the voltmeters connectors held onto the top of the battery terminals. Here are the results:

DCV 20

Initial Idle: 14.2 - 14.4

Once Warmed up: 13.20

@ 5,000 RPMS: 14.73

Bike off/Ignition off: 13.06

DCV 200

Bike off/Ignition off: 12.8

Initial Idle: 14.4 - 14.5

Once Warmed up: 13.2

@5,000 RPMS: 14.8

I unplugged the yellow wires (i believe this is the stator) and tested at the battery with the bike running and found: 11.8 @ the battery.

Connectors on the RR look good.

Theres one more piece of the pie guys...

Using the options I have one my multimeter (dcv, acv, dca, ohm, hFE, 10a) can I check to see if the stator and r/r is good? I'm not quite sure what I need to touch where...

~mikeym

[Guest]

btw, I have no idea how old the battery is...

could a poor battery be causing this? I haven't had it on a tender either...

[Tightwad]

use the "ACV" option to test the stator while the engine is running. Test between each pairing of 2 yellow wires, you should get about 15-18 VAC at idle, ~45 at 3K RPM, and 55-65 at 5K RPM. Test wires 1-2, 1-3, 2-3 all readings should be the same.

I think it is probably something shorting to ground, with the bike running wiggle wires to see if you can cause the light to activate. Turn the bars full lock to lock to see if stretching causes it...basically you are trying to replicate the issue while not moving to isolate what triggers it.

[Guest]

use the "ACV" option to test the stator while the engine is running. Test between each pairing of 2 yellow wires, you should get about 15-18 VAC at idle, ~45 at 3K RPM, and 55-65 at 5K RPM. Test wires 1-2, 1-3, 2-3 all readings should be the same.

I think it is probably something shorting to ground, with the bike running wiggle wires to see if you can cause the light to activate. Turn the bars full lock to lock to see if stretching causes it...basically you are trying to replicate the issue while not moving to isolate what triggers it.

Tightwad,

Thanks for the info! I will definitely test the stator tomorrow when I get the seat off again... I did wiggle some wires around while I had it off today... I didn't seem to find anything... I didn't turn the bars, etc. With the bike sitting still and running it will come on intermittently.

Some help for a newbie:

what does VAC mean?

what is a basic explanation of something shorting to ground?

By your educated opinion, is this something you think based on the readings I have given will:

1) cause the bike to fail in the near future

2) indicate a r/r unit going bad or a bad r/r unit

It isn't storing any codes which is bugging me...

Would that point to a short?

~mikeym

[Tightwad]

VAC = Voltage Alternating Current

Stators work in AC mode, the job of the R/R is first to change it to DC mode (Rectify it) then to cut off excessive voltage (Regulate it)...the R/R

I forgot to connect a wire on my throttle body when I did my Tensioners and I got an FI light, but I also got a code. you might have a sensor or similar that is starting to fail, but I would guess it would throw a code....do you notice the light coming on at any particular RPM, or just in general?

[hondalover]

A quick 12 volt DC (direct current) lesson. To activate a 12 volt circuit you need a positive wire and a negative/ground wire. Your neutral light for example has 12 volts positive going to it all the time, when the neutral switch "sees" the gearbox in neutral it acts as the switch (on/off) for the ground, completes the circuit and turns on your green light. If you FI light is similar, it could be finding a ground where it shouldn't and turning the light on when there is actually no code because the ECM isn't turning on the light. I hope I didn't confuse you more. If you modify your profile to include your location, someone around you may be able to help.

[checksix]

I recall seeing problems like this described in the UK vfr forum. The owner reported weird things going on with the FI light glowing. It turned out to be bad ground connections which caused current to flow through other components in the electrical system (ie. the FI light) as electrical loads changed due to headlights, turn signals, brake lights. etc. The solution was to clean all the connectors and especially the grounding connections to the chassis. The good news is that your symptoms might not indicate an R/R or charging issue. The bad news is you're going to need to inspect and clean all your connectors and ground points. Hope this helps.

[Guest]

VAC = Voltage Alternating Current

Stators work in AC mode, the job of the R/R is first to change it to DC mode (Rectify it) then to cut off excessive voltage (Regulate it)...the R/R

I forgot to connect a wire on my throttle body when I did my Tensioners and I got an FI light, but I also got a code. you might have a sensor or similar that is starting to fail, but I would guess it would throw a code....do you notice the light coming on at any particular RPM, or just in general?

Higher rpms it glows brighter... lower it is very faint if there at all...

~mikeym

[Guest]

I recall seeing problems like this described in the UK vfr forum. The owner reported weird things going on with the FI light glowing. It turned out to be bad ground connections which caused current to flow through other components in the electrical system (ie. the FI light) as electrical loads changed due to headlights, turn signals, brake lights. etc. The solution was to clean all the connectors and especially the grounding connections to the chassis. The good news is that your symptoms might not indicate an R/R or charging issue. The bad news is you're going to need to inspect and clean all your connectors and ground points. Hope this helps.

That was my problem, if the FI light comes on when you brake or put lights/indicators on, then its a very good bet that its the earth cluster. It's just forward of the RR, all taped up with black tape (looks like a thick part of the loom) In the end, I cut the whole lot off, joined all the wires together with conectors, and then conected a thick wire to ground. After doing that I haven't had a problem (touch wood) in well over a year.

[Guest]

I recall seeing problems like this described in the UK vfr forum. The owner reported weird things going on with the FI light glowing. It turned out to be bad ground connections which caused current to flow through other components in the electrical system (ie. the FI light) as electrical loads changed due to headlights, turn signals, brake lights. etc. The solution was to clean all the connectors and especially the grounding connections to the chassis. The good news is that your symptoms might not indicate an R/R or charging issue. The bad news is you're going to need to inspect and clean all your connectors and ground points. Hope this helps.

That was my problem, if the FI light comes on when you brake or put lights/indicators on, then its a very good bet that its the earth cluster. It's just forward of the RR, all taped up with black tape (looks like a thick part of the loom) In the end, I cut the whole lot off, joined all the wires together with conectors, and then conected a thick wire to ground. After doing that I haven't had a problem (touch wood) in well over a year.

Was your bike a recall year for the wiring harness by chance?

I just took a look at the bike... all the connectors are good and clean... I will post voltages for the stator and RR then... I unplugged the battery and put that on a trickle charger... maybe its something in the ECU and it will reset after sitting without a battery...

I took the bike for a ride after I checked everything and could not replicate the light... I did notice that in a few of my key turns (turning bike on and off while plugging and unplugging things) that my fuel pump noise was louder a 2 times...

chance that a clogged fuel filter could be doing this? my bike has always been somewhat sluggish in lower rpms... I'm getting like 32 miles to the gallon... I was thinking since last time the F.I. light came up (it was bright red though) I ran some seafoam through the tank and it disappeared for awhile...

~mikeym

[Guest]

I recall seeing problems like this described in the UK vfr forum. The owner reported weird things going on with the FI light glowing. It turned out to be bad ground connections which caused current to flow through other components in the electrical system (ie. the FI light) as electrical loads changed due to headlights, turn signals, brake lights. etc. The solution was to clean all the connectors and especially the grounding connections to the chassis. The good news is that your symptoms might not indicate an R/R or charging issue. The bad news is you're going to need to inspect and clean all your connectors and ground points. Hope this helps.

That was my problem, if the FI light comes on when you brake or put lights/indicators on, then its a very good bet that its the earth cluster. It's just forward of the RR, all taped up with black tape (looks like a thick part of the loom) In the end, I cut the whole lot off, joined all the wires together with conectors, and then conected a thick wire to ground. After doing that I haven't had a problem (touch wood) in well over a year.

Was your bike a recall year for the wiring harness by chance?

I just took a look at the bike... all the connectors are good and clean... I will post voltages for the stator and RR then... I unplugged the battery and put that on a trickle charger... maybe its something in the ECU and it will reset after sitting without a battery...

I took the bike for a ride after I checked everything and could not replicate the light... I did notice that in a few of my key turns (turning bike on and off while plugging and unplugging things) that my fuel pump noise was louder a 2 times...

chance that a clogged fuel filter could be doing this? my bike has always been somewhat sluggish in lower rpms... I'm getting like 32 miles to the gallon... I was thinking since last time the F.I. light came up (it was bright red though) I ran some seafoam through the tank and it disappeared for awhile...

~mikeym

Did you actually unwrap and dismantle the conector and take out the 2 fork type conectors. It can look clean from the outside but inside has corossion and bad contacts. If you need it I can post some pics in my gallery so you can see the conector and fork conectors.

[Guest]

I recall seeing problems like this described in the UK vfr forum. The owner reported weird things going on with the FI light glowing. It turned out to be bad ground connections which caused current to flow through other components in the electrical system (ie. the FI light) as electrical loads changed due to headlights, turn signals, brake lights. etc. The solution was to clean all the connectors and especially the grounding connections to the chassis. The good news is that your symptoms might not indicate an R/R or charging issue. The bad news is you're going to need to inspect and clean all your connectors and ground points. Hope this helps.

That was my problem, if the FI light comes on when you brake or put lights/indicators on, then its a very good bet that its the earth cluster. It's just forward of the RR, all taped up with black tape (looks like a thick part of the loom) In the end, I cut the whole lot off, joined all the wires together with conectors, and then conected a thick wire to ground. After doing that I haven't had a problem (touch wood) in well over a year.

Was your bike a recall year for the wiring harness by chance?

I just took a look at the bike... all the connectors are good and clean... I will post voltages for the stator and RR then... I unplugged the battery and put that on a trickle charger... maybe its something in the ECU and it will reset after sitting without a battery...

I took the bike for a ride after I checked everything and could not replicate the light... I did notice that in a few of my key turns (turning bike on and off while plugging and unplugging things) that my fuel pump noise was louder a 2 times...

chance that a clogged fuel filter could be doing this? my bike has always been somewhat sluggish in lower rpms... I'm getting like 32 miles to the gallon... I was thinking since last time the F.I. light came up (it was bright red though) I ran some seafoam through the tank and it disappeared for awhile...

~mikeym

Did you actually unwrap and dismantle the conector and take out the 2 fork type conectors. It can look clean from the outside but inside has corossion and bad contacts. If you need it I can post some pics in my gallery so you can see the conector and fork conectors.

No... I didn't get that far... hmm... can you post those pictures and link me! that would be incredible... thanks bro!

[Guest]

I recall seeing problems like this described in the UK vfr forum. The owner reported weird things going on with the FI light glowing. It turned out to be bad ground connections which caused current to flow through other components in the electrical system (ie. the FI light) as electrical loads changed due to headlights, turn signals, brake lights. etc. The solution was to clean all the connectors and especially the grounding connections to the chassis. The good news is that your symptoms might not indicate an R/R or charging issue. The bad news is you're going to need to inspect and clean all your connectors and ground points. Hope this helps.

That was my problem, if the FI light comes on when you brake or put lights/indicators on, then its a very good bet that its the earth cluster. It's just forward of the RR, all taped up with black tape (looks like a thick part of the loom) In the end, I cut the whole lot off, joined all the wires together with conectors, and then conected a thick wire to ground. After doing that I haven't had a problem (touch wood) in well over a year.

Was your bike a recall year for the wiring harness by chance?

I just took a look at the bike... all the connectors are good and clean... I will post voltages for the stator and RR then... I unplugged the battery and put that on a trickle charger... maybe its something in the ECU and it will reset after sitting without a battery...

I took the bike for a ride after I checked everything and could not replicate the light... I did notice that in a few of my key turns (turning bike on and off while plugging and unplugging things) that my fuel pump noise was louder a 2 times...

chance that a clogged fuel filter could be doing this? my bike has always been somewhat sluggish in lower rpms... I'm getting like 32 miles to the gallon... I was thinking since last time the F.I. light came up (it was bright red though) I ran some seafoam through the tank and it disappeared for awhile...

~mikeym

Did you actually unwrap and dismantle the conector and take out the 2 fork type conectors. It can look clean from the outside but inside has corossion and bad contacts. If you need it I can post some pics in my gallery so you can see the conector and fork conectors.

No... I didn't get that far... hmm... can you post those pictures and link me! that would be incredible... thanks bro!

mike where is kutztown? I live in youngstown warren area and might be able to help if its not too far

[Guest]

Mikem

Hope this link will work, if not go to my picture gallery, the pic is there.

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/uploads...513_1018023.jpg

[Guest]

Mikem

Hope this link will work, if not go to my picture gallery, the pic is there.

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/uploads...513_1018023.jpg

I am having this same issue. I ride 5 days a week, sometimes 6, and this happens 1 or 2 days a week. The rest of the time everything is fine. I get everything from mild glowing to full lit. Almost always, if I use the turn signals, it will go out for a few minutes, then come back. Most days, however, it doesn't glow at all. Very strange.

I friend with a 2000 VFR had the FI light come on permanently, and the bike stopped running. He tried a few things, including finding another 2000 VFR and putting his ECU into that bike, to verify his ECU wasn't bad. In the end, he took apart the earth cluster and cleaned it. The bike started right up, and has been fine ever since. I'm going to try cleaning and greasing mine, hopefully that's will be the end of my troubles.

[Guest]

Mikem

Hope this link will work, if not go to my picture gallery, the pic is there.

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/uploads...513_1018023.jpg

I am having this same issue. I ride 5 days a week, sometimes 6, and this happens 1 or 2 days a week. The rest of the time everything is fine. I get everything from mild glowing to full lit. Almost always, if I use the turn signals, it will go out for a few minutes, then come back. Most days, however, it doesn't glow at all. Very strange.

I friend with a 2000 VFR had the FI light come on permanently, and the bike stopped running. He tried a few things, including finding another 2000 VFR and putting his ECU into that bike, to verify his ECU wasn't bad. In the end, he took apart the earth cluster and cleaned it. The bike started right up, and has been fine ever since. I'm going to try cleaning and greasing mine, hopefully that's will be the end of my troubles.

Thanks for the replies guys! This problem is happening more and more frequently as of lately... its really pissing me off...

So just pull the tabs in and out of that earth cluster and clean them? What grease would I put on them? I'm just waiting for the bike to stop running...

Here's an update for you guys... with the bike off I can reproduce the light now... if I click the front brake rapidly after about 10 - 20 seconds the light will appear faintly... flashing along with my pattern... and then a few seconds later its bright and goes on and off with my front/rear brake...

I find it hard to believe that its just a ground... but I know basically nothing about electronics...

[nvoges]

Mikem

Hope this link will work, if not go to my picture gallery, the pic is there.

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/uploads...513_1018023.jpg

I am having this same issue. I ride 5 days a week, sometimes 6, and this happens 1 or 2 days a week. The rest of the time everything is fine. I get everything from mild glowing to full lit. Almost always, if I use the turn signals, it will go out for a few minutes, then come back. Most days, however, it doesn't glow at all. Very strange.

I friend with a 2000 VFR had the FI light come on permanently, and the bike stopped running. He tried a few things, including finding another 2000 VFR and putting his ECU into that bike, to verify his ECU wasn't bad. In the end, he took apart the earth cluster and cleaned it. The bike started right up, and has been fine ever since. I'm going to try cleaning and greasing mine, hopefully that's will be the end of my troubles.

This definetely sounds like a grounding issue to me. Basically, when you have a bad ground the voltage has to find some form of current loop and will go through whatever it can to go back to ground. Beleive it or not, I've seen issues similar to this in cages that were caused by dual element turn signal bulbs where the bulb failed and the filement was causing issues. I would definetely check the ground cluster and make sure it is clean.

Thanks for the replies guys! This problem is happening more and more frequently as of lately... its really pissing me off...

So just pull the tabs in and out of that earth cluster and clean them? What grease would I put on them? I'm just waiting for the bike to stop running...

Here's an update for you guys... with the bike off I can reproduce the light now... if I click the front brake rapidly after about 10 - 20 seconds the light will appear faintly... flashing along with my pattern... and then a few seconds later its bright and goes on and off with my front/rear brake...

I find it hard to believe that its just a ground... but I know basically nothing about electronics...

[Guest]

Pull them out, give a good soaking in WD40 or similar. I gave mine a clean with a small wire brush. Then slide in and out a few times. Also have a good look for any damaged or broken wires. You will need a very small screwdriver or pick to pull the forks out. Hope this cures the problem

[Ryanme17]

Mikem

Hope this link will work, if not go to my picture gallery, the pic is there.

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/uploads...513_1018023.jpg

I am having this same issue. I ride 5 days a week, sometimes 6, and this happens 1 or 2 days a week. The rest of the time everything is fine. I get everything from mild glowing to full lit. Almost always, if I use the turn signals, it will go out for a few minutes, then come back. Most days, however, it doesn't glow at all. Very strange.

I friend with a 2000 VFR had the FI light come on permanently, and the bike stopped running. He tried a few things, including finding another 2000 VFR and putting his ECU into that bike, to verify his ECU wasn't bad. In the end, he took apart the earth cluster and cleaned it. The bike started right up, and has been fine ever since. I'm going to try cleaning and greasing mine, hopefully that's will be the end of my troubles.

Thanks for the replies guys! This problem is happening more and more frequently as of lately... its really pissing me off...

So just pull the tabs in and out of that earth cluster and clean them? What grease would I put on them? I'm just waiting for the bike to stop running...

Here's an update for you guys... with the bike off I can reproduce the light now... if I click the front brake rapidly after about 10 - 20 seconds the light will appear faintly... flashing along with my pattern... and then a few seconds later its bright and goes on and off with my front/rear brake...

I find it hard to believe that its just a ground... but I know basically nothing about electronics...

Your auto or hardware store will sell a big tube of dielectric grease for a dollar or two. They may also try to sell you tiny little things of dielectric grease for a dollar, but don't be fooled!

Anyway, clean your contacts by using whatever is abrasive to get down to clean metal (sandpaper, a screwdriver, etc.) then add some dielectric grease to keep them from corroding in the future. But because it transmits electricity, don't use too much.

[Guest]

then add some dielectric grease to keep them from corroding in the future. But because it transmits electricity, don't use too much.

di·elec·tric

: a nonconductor of direct electric current

[Guest]

Brother I hope you have sorted out the problem but I implore you to pull your left fairing off and inspect your r/r connections...my bike was flashing the headlights, FI light would come on, sometimes dime other bright, bike finally just quite running at a light...all this and guess what...the r/r connection going to the stator was FRIED almost to an electric fire....just a tip...if you havent already upgraded with the vfrness from tightwad I suggest to everyone to do so!!!!!! goodluck and i hope you figure it out

[Guest]

Hey guys,

Took apart the harness today and cleaned and greased the fork type connectors in the earth block... personally they were clean already and I can't imagine that did it... however I cleaned and greased every other plug connector in sight... so far the light is off?

Will keep everyone posted...

~mikeym