Triangle Torquing Question

[Guest wlvrine]

I have a general question that seems kind of simple, but need some wisdom. I rotated the triangles to lower the rear and it calls for 32ft lbs. When I took the bolts off they were stuck pretty well. Upon putting them back in and bolting them back together it seems to take more than 32 ft lbs to snug them against the triangles before tightening. Part of my problem is that I have a new torque wrench and am questioning its acuracy in light of these findings. Secondly, it seems that so long as you don't strip the bolts tight would not be bad as I can't see them needing to rotate a whole lot. Guess would rather over than under tighten.

Any opinions, besides that I am asking a stupid question, would be appreciated. :rolleyes:

[Veefer Madness]

I have a general question that seems kind of simple, but need some wisdom. I rotated the triangles to lower the rear and it calls for 32ft lbs. When I took the bolts off they were stuck pretty well. Upon putting them back in and bolting them back together it seems to take more than 32 ft lbs to snug them against the triangles before tightening. Part of my problem is that I have a new torque wrench and am questioning its acuracy in light of these findings. Secondly, it seems that so long as you don't strip the bolts tight would not be bad as I can't see them needing to rotate a whole lot. Guess would rather over than under tighten.

Any opinions, besides that I am asking a stupid question, would be appreciated. :huh:

I'm currently taking mine off and I agree, they're ON there pretty good.

No expert but, wouldn't overtightening affect the movement of the dogbone? :cool: :huh: :musik20:

Now there's two of us wondering....

[NVR2L8]

Well, in my opinion 32 ft lbs isn't that much torque for the fairly hefty triangle bolts, but then again it is snug. I also rotated the triangles for a while before going back to stock, but I don't remember if there is any play in the triangle side plates and I doubt that there should be any. I'm guessing the bolts/nuts felt like a lot more than 32 ft lbs when you removed them, but I think being exposed to heat and the elements might have frozen them a little. If your torque wrench is new and a decent brand, I suggest torquing the bolts to spec, and then checking them again after a week or so. If they haven't loosened up then I think you will be okay. Other than that, maybe you can borrow a torque wrench and see how it compares to the one you have.

[Guest]

Over tightening will not bind the linkages. They are lock nuts and a little lubrication on the threads will give a truer torque reading in this particular case.

Keep in mind that rotating the triangles will reduce the shock travel (compared to swingarm travel) by at least 20% as it seriously alters the geometry. This is a huge compromise to the suspension.

So what is the alternative and what can be done to offset this, or are you insinuating that the forks need their adjustment as well?

[NVR2L8]

When I lowered my '05 with a longer dogbone I could tell I had less rear shock travel than when it was the stock height. I decided that 1.25" was too much, so I went back to the stock dogbone and rotated the triangle to get it .75" lowered. Again, I could tell the shock travel was better but still not the same as stock. In the end I decided that the loss of travel and the affect on the geometry was not worth it, so I went back to the stock configuration. At 5'7" and 30" inseam I can't flat foot the bike, but in the stock form I feel better knowing that I haven't compromised the characteristics of the bike. Mind you I think lowering it with the triangle is perfectly okay, as long as you understand what you have done to the bike. And yes, if you lower the rear you also have to lower the front the same amount.

[Guest]

Since my 03 only lowered by 7/16 I am understanding that I would not lose as much of the stock shock travel? If afterward I set the sag to closer t0 30mm than 40mm will this help keep it from bottoming out? I can probably stand the slightly stiffer ride and since I am about 210 should still be able to compress them in a turn.

[Veefer Madness]

Over tightening will not bind the linkages. They are lock nuts and a little lubrication on the threads will give a truer torque reading in this particular case.

Keep in mind that rotating the triangles will reduce the shock travel (compared to swingarm travel) by at least 20% as it seriously alters the geometry. This is a huge compromise to the suspension.

So what is the alternative and what can be done to offset this, or are you insinuating that the forks need their adjustment as well?

I haven't ridden with this modification, just made the calculation. You'd have to give it a try.

For "geometry" I was referring to the rear suspension linkages. If the swingarm moves up at a constant speed the shock is compressed slowly at first then faster at the end of it's travel. By rotating the tri-plates you alter this compression rate and also loose almost 3/4" of shock compression.

Not sure what you can do, other than a custom lowered Corbin seat.

There's got to be a thread about this because I do remember you have to raise the front forks perportionately to correct steering geometry. I think it's like: your wheelbase increases if you 'raise' your shock. Put your hands together. Keep your fingertips touching. Now spread your palms apart. The 'triangle' gets farther apart (wheelbase). Definately not the best analogy....

You will have to modify your sidestand as the bike will stand up straighter since it's 'closer' to the ground.

And, it will change your 'pivot point' of your centerstand, making it a little harder to raise.

Make any sense at all?

Notsotechnoman :musik20: :cool: :huh:

[VFR FLYER]

Over tightening will not bind the linkages. They are lock nuts and a little lubrication on the threads will give a truer torque reading in this particular case.

Keep in mind that rotating the triangles will reduce the shock travel (compared to swingarm travel) by at least 20% as it seriously alters the geometry. This is a huge compromise to the suspension.

most all torque values are based on good, clean and DRY threads. lubricated threads will change the torque values enough to be breaking smaller bolts. i have removed the bolts from three original bikes and found a form of loctie on every bolt. (that's why they seem so tight!) over torque on bolts, streches the bolt in its weakest area.......the threads. use a torque wrench, use the correct values, use a good thread lock, most everywhere! (removable grade). :musik20:

[Guest]

Over tightening will not bind the linkages. They are lock nuts and a little lubrication on the threads will give a truer torque reading in this particular case.

Keep in mind that rotating the triangles will reduce the shock travel (compared to swingarm travel) by at least 20% as it seriously alters the geometry. This is a huge compromise to the suspension.

most all torque values are based on good, clean and DRY threads. lubricated threads will change the torque values enough to be breaking smaller bolts. i have removed the bolts from three original bikes and found a form of loctie on every bolt. (that's why they seem so tight!) over torque on bolts, streches the bolt in its weakest area.......the threads. use a torque wrench, use the correct values, use a good thread lock, most everywhere! (removable grade). :musik20:

Thanks VFR Flyer. Good advice. :cool:

[Guest]

I've become an advocate of a high rear ended bike. Came across an interesting tip from another rider this weekend that I tried and it worked.

I am able to take the rear tire all the way to the edge but still have about 1/2" - 3/4" chicken strips on the front tire. He told me that was indication that the rear of my bike was too low.

Luckily I have a Penske shock. I adjusted the shock to be 5 mm longer than where I was originally. Took it down the road for 10 miles. Came back and now my front chicken strips are only about an eighth of an inch and it handles oh so much better.

Give it a try.

[Lee 2002]

most all torque values are based on good, clean and DRY threads. lubricated threads will change the torque values enough to be breaking smaller bolts. i have removed the bolts from three original bikes and found a form of loctie on every bolt. (that's why they seem so tight!) over torque on bolts, streches the bolt in its weakest area.......the threads. use a torque wrench, use the correct values, use a good thread lock, most everywhere! (removable grade). :laugh:

Perfectly said.