Intersection Lane Position

[Stucky]

We all know that at regular intersections it is best to stay to the left or right of your lane. This is to avoid oil, coolant, or whatever debris might fall off of the cages at the light (visibility as well). However, at left hand turns, I'm a bit more undecided. I have always stayed in the left had portion of the turn lane. I did this to maintain the following:

1. An escape path from vehicles coming from the rear
   
2. A better view of myself for the driver directly in front of me
   
3. A clear line of sight, through the intersection, to oncoming cars which are also turning left (across the intersection)
   

These all seemed like good reasons for me to stay in the left portion of the lane. There is, however, one situation which I have been over looking. Fortunately, I encountered said situation this morning, and have come away unscathed. What if a car in the lane to my right (supposedly going straight) decides he needs to turn left? I'll explain...

Here we all are just hanging out at our red light. The blue dots are cars, and that little red dot is me. I'm to the left of the lane, and I'm the last one in line. I have a clear view of the entire intersection.

Now the turn arrow changes to green and we are away. However because I was positioned to the left of my lane the yellow car could not see me. He didn't see any other cars behind the car in front of me, so he decides to come over and make a left. Luckily for me, I don't tailgate and had more than enough time to react. I didn't even hit the brakes. I just gave him a little honk to let him know he pulled out in front of me.

So which side of the lane is the lesser of two evils? Obviously neither is ideal, but which would you choose? The compromise is between being seen by the traffic on the other side of the intersection, or the indecisive cars to your right. I think I might start lining up in the right hand portion, of the left hand turn lane.

[pm_wizard]

My two cents. I would and do use the the right track of the left turn lane. Once you start turning you have the choice of the right blocking position in the left hand lane you are turning into (does that make sense?) or the left track if it is a one lane road. You are also further out fromthe oncoming traffic on the left cross lane.

Hmmm, easier with a pointer and a map.

John

[jstanwood]

I would and do use the the right track of the left turn lane.

:pissed: Same here.

It also lets me answer questions about the VFR from people in cars. :rolleyes:

[Stucky]

Your lane position is irrelevant in this situation. As long as you are aware that someone might pull in front, and are ready for it.

They pulled out without looking, no lane position will help you here.

Depending on how close you are following the vehicle in front of you, lane position may help. You could be provided some extra reaction time (or space) to swerve to the shoulder. Maybe the larger lesson is to make sure you leave plenty of space between yourself and the vehicle in front. Enough space for an indecisive cager.

[bmv]

Actual lane position is relevant. Utilize the right side tire track to maintain a blocking position to prevent exactly what happened to you, someone encroached upon your space. People may do it regardless, but utilizing the right side tire track makes you more visible to people that may try to take the space and prevents people from "sharing" your space in the lane.

Nice diagrams Stucky!

[Veefer Madness]

When will this be out on XBOX or Wii?????? :angry:

Then I can practise...... :rolleyes:

And, will either have a "STUPID ARSE(nic)" level to practise those scenarios as well???? :pissed:

I'd take up the right portion of the lane to 'posess' all of it.

However, unfortunately, there is another mind in play here, which we can only do our best to anticipate.

Since I'm in Canada, I can't carry a gun, so I have a 139 calibre STEBEL instead. :491:

[Darth Bling]

What if a car in the lane to my right (supposedly going straight) decides he needs to turn left?

He's going to end up with my boot in his door. :goofy: Of course, that's right after I make him crap his pants with my super loud air horns. :biggrin:

On a serious note:

I personally don't think lane positioning would of helped here. Either the cager is paying attention and will see you, or the cager isn't paying attention and is going to cut you off. Giving that they missed their turn and are in the wrong lane leads me to believe that they’re not paying attention and will cut you off anyways. Our duty as motorcyclists is to anticipate this stupid behaviour. Sure, we can minimize the risk we take with better gear, better visibility, better lane positioning, but ultimately somebody somewhere is going to not see us. We need to be as attentive as possible and look for these idiots and avoid them. It's best to pretend that we're invisible and that everybody else is out trying to kill us. JM2¢.

[bikeorski4me]

We all know that at regular intersections it is best to stay to the left or right of your lane. This is to avoid oil, coolant, or whatever debris might fall off of the cages at the light (visibility as well). However, at left hand turns, I'm a bit more undecided. I have always stayed in the left had portion of the turn lane. I did this to maintain the following:

1. An escape path from vehicles coming from the rear
   
2. A better view of myself for the driver directly in front of me
   
3. A clear line of sight, through the intersection, to oncoming cars which are also turning left (across the intersection)
   

These all seemed like good reasons for me to stay in the left portion of the lane. There is, however, one situation which I have been over looking. Fortunately, I encountered said situation this morning, and have come away unscathed. What if a car in the lane to my right (supposedly going straight) decides he needs to turn left? I'll explain...

Here we all are just hanging out at our red light. The blue dots are cars, and that little red dot is me. I'm to the left of the lane, and I'm the last one in line. I have a clear view of the entire intersection.

Now the turn arrow changes to green and we are away. However because I was positioned to the left of my lane the yellow car could not see me. He didn't see any other cars behind the car in front of me, so he decides to come over and make a left. Luckily for me, I don't tailgate and had more than enough time to react. I didn't even hit the brakes. I just gave him a little honk to let him know he pulled out in front of me.

So which side of the lane is the lesser of two evils? Obviously neither is ideal, but which would you choose? The compromise is between being seen by the traffic on the other side of the intersection, or the indecisive cars to your right. I think I might start lining up in the right hand portion, of the left hand turn lane.

The reason MSF and others teach you to use the side of the lane closest to the "centerline" is for this very reason...you need to protect your turf and always assume someone will try to share the lane with you. Sometimes intentionally, sometimes not but it does happen as you've discovered.

[Guest]

The answer for me, it depends on the intersection; there is rarely a one solution that fits all situations.

One example that makes me set up to the left of the lane is: I have found there are many left hand turn lanes on high speed roads/highways that make me nervous being close to the traffic flying by on my right when the light is green straight ahead and I'm stopped for the red left hand turn light. If there is a center median to protect me from the oncoming traffic I will set up to the left of the lane and take my chances with what happened to you rather then risk getting clipped by a fast moving car on my right.

[Higgin]

The answer for me, it depends on the intersection; there is rarely a one solution that fits all situations.

One example that makes me set up to the left of the lane is: I have found there are many left hand turn lanes on high speed roads/highways that make me nervous being close to the traffic flying by on my right when the light is green straight ahead and I'm stopped for the red left hand turn light. If there is a center median to protect me from the oncoming traffic I will set up to the left of the lane and take my chances with what happened to you rather then risk getting clipped by a fast moving car on my right.

Those were my thoughts exactly. Sometimes I'm more afraid of being clipped by a fast moving car to my right, and stay to the left. But like he said, no one solution fits all situations.

[VeeFourAJ]

Those were my thoughts exactly. Sometimes I'm more afraid of being clipped by a fast moving car to my right, and stay to the left. But like he said, no one solution fits all situations.

Interesting thought, here in the People's Republic of Massachusetts, people will 'follow' a stopped car in the break down lane until they collide at a 65+ MPH differential. So if you can think it, it will happen. So I agree, no one solution fits all situations.

When I use the right side of the lane, I try to line up so that I'm inside the right outside edge of the car in front of me, believing that I'm 'invisible' at all times. So any 'fast movers' in the next lane over, will see the car in front of me and hopefully avoid hitting it and therefore me.

Another argument for using the right side vs. the left side on a left turn lane is visibility. Both your ability to see the cross traffic, but also to be seen. They have all kinds of crazy traffic light patterns here, all designed to keep the high flow lanes moving. Around here, I can easily imagine a situation where at the time you're turning left (albeit not the scenario described at the top of the thread) some other light in the intersection has just changed, which means someone, someday, somewhere will run the red. By staying right, IMHO you can see the car running the red as well as being seen by the driver committing the infraction.

[magicman]

We all know that at regular intersections it is best to stay to the left or right of your lane. This is to avoid oil, coolant, or whatever debris might fall off of the cages at the light (visibility as well). However, at left hand turns, I'm a bit more undecided. I have always stayed in the left had portion of the turn lane. I did this to maintain the following:

1. An escape path from vehicles coming from the rear
   
2. A better view of myself for the driver directly in front of me
   
3. A clear line of sight, through the intersection, to oncoming cars which are also turning left (across the intersection)
   

These all seemed like good reasons for me to stay in the left portion of the lane. There is, however, one situation which I have been over looking. Fortunately, I encountered said situation this morning, and have come away unscathed. What if a car in the lane to my right (supposedly going straight) decides he needs to turn left? I'll explain...

Here we all are just hanging out at our red light. The blue dots are cars, and that little red dot is me. I'm to the left of the lane, and I'm the last one in line. I have a clear view of the entire intersection.

Now the turn arrow changes to green and we are away. However because I was positioned to the left of my lane the yellow car could not see me. He didn't see any other cars behind the car in front of me, so he decides to come over and make a left. Luckily for me, I don't tailgate and had more than enough time to react. I didn't even hit the brakes. I just gave him a little honk to let him know he pulled out in front of me.

So which side of the lane is the lesser of two evils? Obviously neither is ideal, but which would you choose? The compromise is between being seen by the traffic on the other side of the intersection, or the indecisive cars to your right. I think I might start lining up in the right hand portion, of the left hand turn lane.

I will stay to the right in these situations. The problem you had there, was more than likely a clear mirror. If the car in question was ahead of you as shown in the diagram, you would have been in the blind spot. The problem was a lack of a shoulder check by the driver.

However, if you stay in the right track, you tend to be visable in the MIRRORs of these cars, and even inattentive drivers tend to pick you up in their periferals when you show on the mirror. Especially with those headlights on the VFR.

As mentioned, it also gives you room to swerve left if someone does come over, without being forced into on-coming traffic (or just across the yellow in this situation). Visability is greater for the other drivers coming at you, as the right side of the car leading you will block you longer if you stay left, but if you're on the right, you'll appear from behind said car sooner.

I typically tend to run the right track in the left lane for most of these reasons, but if there is no median (or concrete barrier) I will stay to the left.

[David E.]

In them types of turns, with that kinda traffic I'm gonna be just to the right of the center of the lane...escape route?? I ain't pullin to the left into oncoming traffic...and to the right doesn't look so swell either... I usually give me some space to the car in fron of me in case I need to roll up a bit. While waiting my time in an intersection, and there are cars around, I always kinda blip the throttle a lil bit...not redline it...but just a few K revs to get the motorists attention...doesn't always work as quiet/insulated as cars are now, but if it helps a lil bit to make em aware of me.

[Guest]

Don't forget, there are three parts of any lane to stop in. It is not often, but I have found turn lane scenarios where I found it best to set up in middle of my lane leaving a very large cushion between me and the car in front. I then have the option of pulling left or right if I need to. I know I also risk having some asshat jumping in front of me…...There is no free lunch :lurk: