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Ladajo

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Ladajo last won the day on July 5

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About Ladajo

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    Local Racer

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    RI
  1. Yes, I agree, there is definitely some resistance in the loop. I was pondering last night on whether it is better to monitor at the battery or out on the bike on the 12V main switched bus. I am kind of leaning towards the latter as it seems to me that this is the best indicator of a failing ground, fuse holder, or multi-pin plug. I see your logic about monitoring directly at the battery, however if I do this, I will not see a distribution system failure, only when it is too late. Thoughts? On the other note, I will do some checks this weekend and look for high resistance points from power to return, as indicated by half-splitting in the wiring and finding the largest voltage drop(s). From there I can assess if I need to redo/repair/clean any connection points or faulty wires (or undersized for load). Every connector I have opened has looked good, no heat marks, no corrosion. However, as noted I am losing a volt or more somewhere(s). And, it seems to be higher when under heavy load, up to the order of ~1.5 VDC. I do appreciate your clear and well grounded (pun intended) knowledge on this bike. It is clear you have done some mileage (pun intended again). All your comments and thoughts are welcomed by me. Historically, I was a 250 dirt biker, and then spent some time on a GS700E, and then back to dirtbikes (and snowmobiles), and then this bike. While I have owned it since new, I do not ride it as much as I wish, thus she is very low miles for her age (16780). I put on 8 miles per day in commute, and then a little outside of that sometimes on the weekend. I am hoping to do some more touring in the fall. The last good run I had was a number of years back in VA and WV, with a couple of buddies. We made a multi-day run from Chesapeake, Virginia up into the Blue Ridge Mountains in West Virginia. Beautiful riding, except the flats in VA (smoking hot, long and boring).
  2. Ok, so I thought it may be reading a little low. And with your prompt Grum, I did check when I got home today. It appears I am dropping a volt in their across the connectors and fuses. I will do some half splitting this weekend o ce I move the 12v wire for the meter to the 12v pin on the Bank Sensor. I did adjust the idle to 1200, and it makes a difference in generated volts at idle. Photos below. Short of the long of it, make sure your idle is set right to help limit electrical heating due to higher amps at lower volts. I also let it run with the fan on and off to see how she was handling the load. All good as you can see in the pics. I did try it at idle with fan on, and high beams, and she didn't like that. Got a higher voltage drop, and definitely was pulling on the system she did run, and with some throttle was ok, however based on the experiment, don't run at idle with high beams on for extended period. Oh, for the record, I do have the 115mm rotor / stator kit. Look at rpm and temps in the pics as well so you can see fan status and where I had revs.
  3. Riding to work this morning, I had 13.1 to 13.2Vdc on the meter. I did notice my idle is a little low, currently at about 800-850. I will tweak it up a bit. When it goes to full idle, the generated volts drop low and the system is floating on the battery, and drawing it down. When I played with the throttle a little to bring it up to 1100 to 1200 rpm, to simulate where idle should be, I was then getting volts around 12.5 to 13. This showed me that the idle setting ABSOLUTELY matters for these bikes due to generated power. Later today, when I get home I will compare with my Fluke between direct from the battery to where I hooked in the meter. I will probably wait until the weekend to move the (+) wire for the meter from the handlebar brake switch hot to the Bank Sensor green plug under the front cowl. I used a 13/64" micro screwdriver to pop the terminal out of the plug body, literally pushed right out, easy day. Quick solder job, and then press it back in and make up the connector and done. For anyone with a soldering iron, a tool to get the pin out of the plug, and the $10 meter, this hook up is clean and fast. Literally 15 minutes if you have your tools at hand. I highly recommend this as the go to place to hook up a DC Voltmeter for the 6th Gen.
  4. I will check. I was thinking it might be the temp sensor. Hadn't looked it up yet. Either way, just using the ground for now. Later as I said I will switch to put both wires there. My sense is it might be reading low. I have it on the charger tonight as I had done multiple ons with no run, as well as starts
  5. Installed my voltmeter. Decided to mount it between ignition key and head stock. Looks like a good spot. I initially thought to wire it to the 12volt wire feeding the handlebar brake switch. Then after soldering that to the hot side (switched with ignition), I couldn't find a decent ground point. Sooo, I poked around and found the green plug accessible under the cowl on the left. Popped out the ground, soldered my negative to that, reinserted and Bob's your Uncle, and possibly Cousin as well. Sometime later I will move the Hot side to the Black/White switched 12v on the same green plug. Photos below.
  6. 14.6V highest recorded at about 7k rpm. It stabilized at that level around 3.5k as I recall, and then didn't really get any higher. Definitely regulating... 🙂 I think I will connect it to the fuse block, and the 10a fuse off the ignition switch. Thanks for your help!
  7. I received and installed my new Regulator Rectifier. It came really fast, shipped international Fedex from Canada. It was estimated for no later than Friday, and arrived yesterday. So, after install (mounted right in, and plugs hooked right up - no mods required), then with an oil change (3.3 qts Castrol Power 1 4T 10W-40 full synthetic & a Purolator Pure One PL 14610 3.25 inch filter) conducted while I was grilling short ribs, then dinner, then testing all good. After dinner I put the fairings back on, and then rode her to work this morning. Yay! I will install the little voltmeter I got from Amazon this weekend, and then will have a running indication of system voltage at all times. 🙂 I plan to hook this up to the relay next to the battery, so it is only on with the bike in run. I think the new MOSFET RR will reduce the heat burden on the stator, as well as provide a better regulated system voltage, in addition to being able to provide up to 50 amps for load, which is much better than the old RRs (OEM and Electrosport). Hopefully, this means I won't kill another stator or computer for the remaining life of the bike. On that note, I do have two stators in my garage the OEM, and the Electrosport which are good cores if anyone is looking for rewind stock. I also have the OEM RR, and the Electrosport RR for science projects, since they are both done. The OEM shows one diode leg in spec. when cold, however it is actually cooked, so when it heats up that leg goes away. The Electrosport, as noted, does rectify, however it is not regulating, thus it is dependent purely on AC in level for the DC out level. Voltmeter: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07SRP2XD5/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Ricks MOSFET from Ebay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mosfet-Regulator-Rectifier-For-Honda-VFR-800-RVT1000R-RC51-2000-2007-2008-2009/232547357017?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
  8. Hi Grum, Thank you. I did a little more digging and found out it is the regulator feedback wire which the OEM style RRs use as a reference voltage for regulator output. When red is, the RR cranks up output to charge a low battery. When red is high, the RR lowers output voltage to compensate for a charged battery. If the wire is cut or has degraded connections, thereby dropping voltage across each one, the OEM style RR can reach a max output condition and exceed voltage ratings of components on the bike. Apparently light bulbs are the first to go. The newer style MOSFETs do not use a separate voltage feedback sensing line, as they monitor the actual outputs and regulate that way. This helps prevent the bad feedback line over voltage issue. My feedback line rang out nice and clean both for resistance, and for dropped volts under power. Also, my DC output varies directly with Alternator spin speed, indicating an unregulated full wave bridge. I also hope there was no damage when I was testing. I did not leave it up high, it was fully transient, and I only did it once. Given I was less than 150% operating voltage, and short duration, things are probably ok. Once I get the new RR,I will go around and check all the lights, as they seem to be considered the weakest link. Additionally, I bought a stick on flat face DC Voltmeter, which I will hook to the 12v monitor wire to have a running indication of bike voltage. This will provide better notice of any charging system or other electrical issues, hopefully prior to expensive damage.
  9. I just ordered a Rick's MOSFET Regulator Rectifier. Found it on Ebay at RaceTechElectric for $100. Should be here in a few days. More thumb rolling while I wait for it. The previous one was an ElectroSport ESR438. Put it in about 4 years ago. Piece of shit. I don't have any wiring issues, or hot connectors. Seems to be a quality issue. Let's see how the MOSFET holds up. I am considering direct connecting it to the battery. However, I need to look at the Black monitor wire before I do that. As I understand it feeds 12V to some essential circuits. The Rick's write up says "we do away with that". Without having it in hand, it seems that maybe they jumped that pin in the RR connector to the Red +12V output.
  10. Ok, I got the replacement ECM ECU. I compared pin readings, and B12 was not shorted. All else checked out. Of note was that B1& B2 are hard connected I eternally, as are B14, 15, & 16. After not finding any obvious issues with other components on the 12V shared line connected to B12, I installed it and bike fired up. 🙂 Being sceptical as to why my old ECM ECU failed at B12, I made some checks on the Altenator and Regulator Recitifier power generation and regulation. At idle, all looked normal, I rev'd up and down and saw good readings from Alternator, and then checked regulation. Not good. Was at 19V and decided it was not regulating the voltage. Note to self, check regulated voltage first next time. Sooo, I think I have a bad RR and it fried my ECM ECU B12 12V input with over voltage, causing a short to ground (pins B14/15 &16). Now I feel much better about root cause. And, having caught it, believe I will not fry my ECM ECU B12 12volt feed once I replace the RR. This is going to be my third RR for the bike.
  11. Thanks for the feedback. I just was out there and forgot to verify B4 & B15. Gah! I will go back out, and then fix the spreadsheet accordingly.
  12. I have rung out the pins to bike check B4 & B15. Grum your information is correct and I have updated the spreadsheet to reflect this. I also verified B17 & B22 as correct. Attached is the updated sheet. Thanks for the tip on B4 & B15 Grum. Discrepancies noted on the VFR Engine Management Trade Show Graphic are: On the EUROPEAN Model A25 shows as both the HISS signal input and Injector 3 Control (obvious error), while on the US 2002 A25 traces as Injector 3 Control. In addition, the Speed Signal Input is pin A21, not B16. I have attached an edited version of this graphic as well with these corrections. I have removed the old sheet from the previous post to prevent bad info. If you have downloaded it, please delete that and download this updated one. On my issue, I still have not found anything that looks bad. Again, once I get the replacement ECM/ECU I will check pins B14/15/16 to see if they are indeed internally connected together as the ground. So far the only one that is Frame Ground per wiring is B14, the others MAY be switched grounds. I remain suspect as to why B12 shorted out to ground internally in the ECM... 2002 VFR800 ECM Pinouts Traced v1.1 5July2019.xlsx
  13. Thanks for the feedback. I just was out there and forgot to verify B4 & B15. Gah! I will go back out, and then fix the spreadsheet accordingly.
  14. (This file has been removed as it was updated on 5July2019. The newer version is in a post below.) Attached is the ECM pinouts for my 2002 VFR800 in an excel sheet, and included photos of ECM Connectors A (Black 26 Pin) and B (Gray 26 Pin). The noted discrepancies from the Service Manual are Green/Pink (G/P) Frame Ground showing a connection for Plug A (Black) when it is not there, but on Plug B Pin 2, and White/Yellow (W/Y) Ignition Pulse Generator & Cam Pulse Generator shared Common which shows in manual as a Plug A connection when it is on Plug B Pin 4 (I need to ring this one out). There is also a White/Yellow on Plug B Pin 15 which I believe to be O2 Sensor 3-4 Heater Control (grounding switch for on) and also need to ring out to verify. The last bit is I need to ring out Plug B pins 17 & 22 to verify which is which regarding Intake Duct Control Solenoid Valve Control & the Purge Control Solenoid Valve Control. I hope this helps folks out, as it has been a journey in research and on-bike testing to figure this out. Maybe someone can take my spreadsheet and graphically edit the wiring diagram to show the pin numbers and connection fixes. As for my issue, I have ordered a new ECM, and expect it here early next week. I also ordered a Honda ECM Pinout Testing Manual which I found on e-bay for $17. Hopefully it will validate the research I have done. Additionally, I have checked the Speed Sensor and it is good. I remain skeptical regarding root cause of the ECM shorting out at Plug B (Gray) Pin 12 (12V power) to ground at Pins 14/15/16. I am now going to check for faults on the O2 Sensor 3-4 Heater Common connected to Plug B (Gray) Pin 15, and O2 Sensors 1-2 & 3-4, MAP Sensor, ECT Sensor, IAT Sensor, and Throttle Position Sensor Common Return connected to Plug B (Gray) Pin 16 (which will also let me verify that these are what are hooked up to this pin, or if it is the Ignition Pulse Generator & Cam Pulse Generator common). My sense is that Plug B (Gray) Pins 15 & 16 are switched-on grounds to energize these components when the ECM boots up. And as such, should not be hard grounded on a disconnected ECM. I will check the replacement unit when it gets here to see if these Pins are hard connected together internally with Plug B Pin 14 (Frame Ground). In the mean time, if I find one of the above mentioned components as toasted, then I will feel a lot better about why the ECM died and be more confident with installing the replacement and powering it up.
  15. I did buy it new and have had it since. So no possibilities of previous owner drama.
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