BiKenG

In case it helps you decide, any FireBlade front from 2000 - 2007 can be used. In 2008 the wheel became narrower (like 600s) so that can fit with spacers, but you might need to space discs as well. Since they all use 25mm axles, you need to either swap to 22mm ID bearings, or as I have done (better IMO) make some top hat spacers to suit the seals and fit inside the bearings. They are then effectively captive and don't fall out when trying to fit the wheel as the normal ones always do. Any RVT wheel can of course be used, but the 5 spoke (and lighter) SP-2 wheels are much harder to come by and hence expensive. But they do match the 800 rear rather well. Way better than the Honda original in fact.

As john said, but also:- To clarify, all the RVTs' (SP-1 and SP-2) fork tubes are the same length. It is only the overlap which means they end up a different length and that's down to the internals. Overall though, they are the longest suitable USD forks used by Honda. Of those visually identical (colour notwithstanding) axial calipers The SP-1 and FIreBlade RRW/X calipers are 32/34, 929's are 30/34 and almost all the rest are 30/32 which is the same as all Honda's radial calipers. The Master/Cylinder bore sizes have varied, but a regular 14mm such as used on many VFR's (or also available with external reservoir as per RC45) will work perfectly. Better in fact than any RVT M/Cs. Don't try a 12mm M/C though as in my experience that is way too small and the lever comes back almost to the bars. The SP-2 stem is too fat at the top to fit the VFR headstock (as John said, no suitable bearings) so the SP-2 stem and top yoke is no good. The bottom yoke is same as SP-1 though, it's just the stem that needs changing. What you need to be aware of though is that the RVT, 929, 954, RC45 offset is 30mm whereas the VFR's is 35. So the swap we're discussing here will increase the trail by a bit less than 5mm. Whether that is of any significance is up to you. Many have done this and say it's no problem. Dropping the front (or conversely raising the rear) will steepen the forks reducing the rake (steering head angle) and decrease the trail, so that could be used to (partially) compensate for the decreased yoke offset. FireBlade forks are (approx. 2") shorter and would automatically mean a lower front end, so if you want to do that and not have fork tube's protruding above the top yoke, use 'Blade fork legs. I've not yet ridden a VFR with 30mm offset fork yokes, but I'm so sure it won't be a problem, I'm doing that on my VFR. Of course, there are a multitude of other fork/front ends available from other manufacturers, but I've not looked into that. To my mind, fit Honda bits on a Honda. Simple.

Well let me know what it would take to relieve you of that 4th Gen S/A. In the meantime, I should probably offer up the 3rd Gen S/A and see if it will fit between the adjusters in the 4th Gen frame. As you say though, who knows if the alignment will be correct. The good part is that all these Honda wheels use the same offset and the eccentric hub of the RC36s is the same. At least, I think it is. I'm pretty sure the dimensions are the same. So the rear of the S/As must be the same. I wonder how the lateral location of the pivot compares between the RC36 models.

Hmm, thanks for those measurements, but I am very surprised to have confirmation that the 4th Gen S/A is 5mm shorter and 15mm narrower at the pivot than the 4th Gen. I really thought they had the same basic dimensions. Looking at the 4th Gen frame however, I'm sure a 3rd Gen S/A could be mounted in there. Has anyone tried this, squeezing a 3rd Gen S/A into a 4th Gen frame? Guess I need to get hold of a 4th Gen S/A. Anyone got a spare one?

Great. I await your report. I measured the 3rd Gen I have here and it is 242 (maybe 243) across at the pivot. That's just the actual Al casting. The collars will add about 7mm to that.

Sorry to have to bump this, but surely someone has a 4th Gen S/A to measure? I have a 3rd Gen so I can confirm those specs, but no idea if the 4th Gen data I have is correct. In particular I find it hard to believe the 4th Gen S/A is 15mm narrower at the pivot than the 3rd Gen. Could someone with a 4th Gen S/A please measure it for me. Length (centre to centre, eccentric hub to pivot) and especially the width across the pivot. Just the actual cast Al part would suffice.

Yes, the CB1000R (up to '17 anyway) is 35mm offset. So you could use a CB1000R top yoke and put regular bars on a VFR1200F. I AM using 0.5mm shims for my 54mm Ohlins in the VFR's 55mm bottom yoke and indeed supplied JZH with both his yoke and shims. It was a quick fix and yes, it works. But I'm a perfectionist and can't help wanting a true 54mm bottom yoke to actually fit the forks. So far I've not found anything suitable 'off-the-shelf'. Of course I'd really like to find out the clamp dia. and offset for the new '18 CB1000R which actually has a very nice looking bottom yoke. When Honda make a bike with fairing, they don't bother making the lower yoke look nice. The clamp area with bolts is just stuck on the outside and not very attractive. That's another reason for thinking about making my own. I could have the correct fork clamp dia. and also make it look better with the bolts tucked out of the way. Being a naked bike, the new CB1000R one is better looking. Anyone know the dimensions?

Thanks gig. Just what I thought it would be.

Question for those who've used Ducati axles. On the (driven/cush) LHS what type of washer do they use under the nut? Honda like to use a dished/spring washer, but are Ducati the same or is it just a plain flat washer? I've looked at parts lists, but they just state "washer" which is no help at all.

Well yes, but don't forget Ti is actually 50% heavier than Al and in a brake caliper piston I don't see distortion as being a problem. I don't really think heat transfer is an issue on the road either. However, although hard anodised Al is likely to resist corrosion pretty well, there's no denying you can't beat Titanium for staying shiny. Did I say I like Titanium. 😁

In all my meanderings with these calipers, I never noticed that. Makes me wonder what the RRW/X and radial ones have. What it does mean is that there’s Al pistons available in 30, 32 and 34 mm which covers all sizes. So any of those Nissin axial calipers can have Al pistons. I wonder if they would also fit the Tokicos. How different can they be. 😀

So you got a 20.5mm offset? Is that for the 1098/1198 wheel for the larger axle? I measured 23mm on my 916 wheel and that concurs with what I have seen reported elsewhere. Which means Ducati used a different offset on their different axle sizes.

I now think that is incorrect as I misread the diagram which in fact states the 916/996 etc hub is 98mm dia. which means it would need a 3.5mm sleeve to fit in the VFR750's S/A which uses a 105mm dia hub. Possible but not ideal and I've no idea where that would position the wheel. Although being 10mm wider might allow some 'adjustment'. All in all, not a great solution I think. A bigger problem is trying to arrange a single nut fixing for e.g. the RC45 wheel as the 400's axle cannot really be shuffled sideways in the 750 hub the 7mm required to align the wheel. Not sure where I go from here. 😞

The Tuono 1100 is I think a cracking bike, but to be honest, any company that simply shuts down for the summer holidays (and to hell with customer service, parts etc) is suspect in my books. I sure love the idea of a new RVF1000, but I actually think the Ducati or Norton V4s will be better road bikes with their larger capacity and none of them can possibly allow me to go any faster as that's governed entirely by speed limits and nothing to do with the bike's performance. I've set myself a new rule. No more bikes that require tax and MOT. So apart from the VFRs, it's 40 year old classics for me. But there's a lot of interesting Hondas in that bracket now 🙂

I may not have explained that this bike is based on a VFR750 with Gen3 SSSA whose rear end is 70 wide by 105mm dia. The Ducati hub is 80 wide by 110 dia. and no matter which way I look at it, 110 into 105 don't go 😞 So the simplest solution is to stick with the 750 hub and axle and just make an extension to suit the 916 wheel.

In that case, the goal is the wheel, but I won't be using Ducati axles and stuff. Goes against the grain on a Honda (apart from the wheel of course 🙂 ) Anyone got an accurate Ducati wheel offset? Hard to measure exactly. Is it 23mm or 7/8"?

You do realise it will not be a VFR. It'll be a track weapon. I'd like them to produce a naked version, but I doubt they will. Either way, it won't be a VFR. Naked versions of the Norton and Ducati V4s are intended and will be very interesting. There's always the Aprilia. Why not that? It's a very good bike. None of them VFRs though. Either track focussed or naked. If you want a bigger VFR, you'll be disappointed. Hang on, there's already a big VFR. Without a doubt, brilliant bike. I like mine naked though 🙂

Well, for starters, I think that's a LOT of money for not a lot. Just a few brackets that are not suitable for my purposes and I'd still have to buy a complete Ducati axle assembly. Secondly, why pay for someone else to do something I can do myself (once I have all the info). Where's the fun in that 🙂 My intention is to have a 916 type nut and axle thread on an NC[30|35] axle that will provide what I need for these bikes. Same concept as Steen's, but with a different thread and no need to manufacture the actual nuts. Since I'll be using my own calipers and hence need to make my own mount brackets for those, even less reason to waste money on the EC kit which would actually provide me with nothing that I need. "Paddle my own furrow" eh Mohawk 😉

Further consideration has made me realise that my dream of using identical axles to allow swapping of RC45 and 916 wheels is not going to happen. The 916 wheel is 4mm wider at the centre AND will require a 4mm spacer, so the axle will need to be 8mm longer which is too much to allow for with a special conical spacer. No big deal though as I never actually intended to swap wheels, just thought it would be a cool feature. However I did weigh both wheels as it was clear to me that although 1/2" narrower, the 916 felt a fair bit heavier:- 916 = 6,055 gms RC45 = 5,260 gms That's bare, clean wheel with valve. More questions now. Could someone with the LARGE Ducati axle (1098 etc) let me know some measurements of the wheel/nut end i.e. length of axle from flange face to thread end and also diameter(s). Just pondering whether to use those dimensions (and hence 1098 type nut) for the RC45 wheel.

I am working through 2 conversions. One is to accept an RC45 wheel and the other a 916 wheel. Those are now set. I just need to figure out the best way to modify the NC[30|35] axles. Since both wheels rely on the conical spacer to centrally locate them, I'm thinking I might make 2 identical axle extensions to suit the (smaller bore) 916 wheel and use std. 916 axle nuts (well, Ti ones). Then a std. 916 spacer can be used with the 916 wheel and I'll make a special spacer to suit the RC45 wheel. That way, either wheel can actually be used on either bike. Actually the axles will need some slight machining to the outer end so the 916 wheel will fit, but they can be identical. Just need the special cone spacer to suit the RC45 wheel and inner spacer with longer drive pins for the 916 type wheel. I like the fact that then any RC45 or 916 (748 etc) type wheel could be used on either bike with minimal work involved. I'd still like to know though what steel Steen used for his axle extension as I presume it's suitable and I'll then use the same.

Ha, no, not code. I have been in touch with Steen, but he was heavily involved in something (business, or moving house, I now forget which) and is apt to take a very long time to reply. In any case, I'm sure he gets posts to this thread, so I figured asking here provided the best 'audience'. 😀 Did you ever mount an RC45 wheel to your modified axle? Surely someone has and can comment on its fitment and the length of the modified axle?

Regarding Ducati axle and wheel, how is the wheel located on the axle? On an NC30 the wheel is a snug fit over the enlarged boss next to the disc/drive pin flange, so the spacer and nut just hold it in place. The RC45 wheel is not so snug on the inner side, but the conical spacer is snug over the outer end of the axle and so locates the wheel. How do Ducati do it? From looking at measurements, it would appear that the wheel is actually quite loose on the axle and it is only the conical spacer that locates the wheel, centralising it and pushing it up against the flange, holding it in that central position by the clamping force of the nut. Not that different from the RC45 in fact, although the Ducati wheel is even looser on the axle as far as I can see. Is this how others see it? The only location of the Ducati's wheel is done by the conical spacer? BTW, what is the offset of the 1098 (6") wheel? Honda use a 19mm offset and the 916 (smaller axle) is 23mm, but what about those Ducs with the larger axle? What offset do they use? Same as for the smaller axle?

I think Steen is very busy. The assembly I have here is also 80mm when pushed together. But the RC45 wheel and nut is about 67 mm thick which leaves about 13mm protruding beyond the wheel. The groove and lip at the end are about 7mm, so that means 5mm of spare thread. Seems to me that with the nut on and tight, only the groove and lip should be visible so the clip can be fitted. There should be no exposed thread. If nothing else, that would mean the nut can come loose out to the retaining clip and allow the wheel to slide 5mm side to side. This cannot be a good thing as it'll just be flopping around. I originally thought it was 7mm too long, but the measurements above indicate 5mm. So let's take the middle ground and I can't help but think the extension piece is about 6mm too long. I'm not knocking Steen here, the pieces are beautifully made. It just seems I must be missing something here.

Another question about Steen's (VFRRR) conversion kit. I have one here and loosely inserted it into an NC35 axle. Strangely, it is quite loose. Doesn't rattle, but slides in and out. I thought they had to be push fit into the axle. Anyway... I then inserted it into an RC45 wheel and I cannot help but think it's nearly 8mm too long. If I hold the insert into the axle and spin the nut down until it starts to bind on the wheel, there's almost 8mm of thread protruding beyond the nut, before the outer lip with holes to take the pin. The whole threaded portion looks like it should be about 8mm shorter, otherwise it sticks out way too far. Anyone else found this? I cannot see why this is. The RC45 wheel is new and certainly not 'thinned' in any way. The axle is certainly not modified and the extension piece is how it was supplied. How can it end up being 8mm too long? Any ideas?

Finally got the bugger off. It was so tight that I stripped the threads on the puller (ok, cheap puller), but was able to re-position it so using a different part of the threads and eventually the cush drive outer moved and once that was off the inner tapped off quite easily. Surprisingly, the axle doesn’t look bad. I expected a lot of corrosion, but in fact it’s just slightly stained in one patch. Just goes to show, sometimes you really do just need brute force. Now I can look at what’s required to use an NC30 axle in the RC36 hub/eccentric. Mohawk’s mods relate to an RC46 hub which is wider, so won’t be the same. Might even be easier. We’ll see.