coderighter

Check here: http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.p...c=52266&hl= Then here: http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.p...c=52762&hl=

Yes, I did. I plugged the supply hose at the air box. What makes think of that? Some numbers in weird places are pretty lean. Example: 8750@40%=17.3?!? I could discount one wild number but it seems to decline to that from much earlier in the RPM range. Which O2 bung are you using?

I was just thinking, you did bypass the PAIR system before testing didn't you?

I did crack open the service manual and it does show a input of bike speed to ABS but it doesn't show lack of signal as being a error that will trip the ABS trouble light. It would seem that it only uses this input to trigger the self test.

Running-out-of-gas is a good way of describing the problem. It would seem that the increased correction that you're running (-18.50) moved it to a higher RPM, or? Try setting it to zero and see what happens.

I've had a couple people with '04's report no problem. Seems that map-by-gear didn't start 'til '06, through you'd be the first '05 to report. Please use -12 (note negative, not positive) if you could please. By the way, my '06 has a rear wheel speed sensor attached to the rear disc. Your '05 doesn't have one? Hummm

The gear calculation is taken between engine RPM and output shaft speed. The change in tire size will change your overland speed compared to your speedo but will have no effect on what the ECU sees as speed, which isn't really your over land speed, just the speed of the output shaft. 6.6% will more the error up in the gears, but I'm not sure if it's enough to make the ECU think you went to 6th when really you went to 5th. Best bet, rewire it. Somewhere there is math to firgure this out. Maybe I'll get a chance next week. My PCV uses the same method to figure gears, maybe I'll rewire it to get feed after the speedohealer and play with it and find out what the points of tripping really are for each gear change.

Thinking about it, I found my problem when I corrected for -1 in front. I had a correction of -11.8 (gear to error). The other people that either had this problem or I convinced to test for me, all were in the -11 to -12 window. You're at -18.5 which might make your gear error different. Keep in mind the difference between ratios gets smaller as you go up gears. You may going from 1st to 2nd with the bike thinking you're in 3rd. With the greater correction, you'd be hitting the tipping point earlier. Looking at my data, the difference between 2nd and 3rd in low RPM / light throttle is very small, if any. I was dealing difference between 3rd and 4th which is a pretty big change when looking at that same map window. If don't find the problem @-18.5, could you please try -12. Thanks for adding to the info exchanged here.

This seems really strange because I've talked (typed) to several people with '06-'08 with speed correctors and they all have had this same problem. Try this. In a res area, at 4000 rpm shift into 3rd and give it real light throttle. If you can find a slight downhill, the kind where you just have crack the throttle, better yet. After you do this, zero out the speedohealer, and try it again. I'm pretty sure that you're going to really notice a problem. If you don't please let me know, you'd be the first. Alot of people don't ever let the RPM get that low, so they don't notice the problem. I came from riding a ZRX1200 and I'm used to sneaking through the neighborhood at low RPM, it had tons of low end power. I didn't have a the PCV back then and the PCIII doesn't have separate gear maps. When I made the PCIII rich enough to "fix" the problem, it made the throttle "dead" at light throttle cruise in 4th, 5th and 6th. Like I said, I'm not sure about the ABS but I know it checks wheel speed against bike speed when you first move after starting. I'm not sure if this is the only time or not, but wired the way I've talked about above will make sure that the corrector is not causing any problem. I'm thinking "better save than sorry".

In 2006, Honda made changes engine management in order to meet Euro-3 emissions regulations. Everyone knows about the changes to the VTEC on and off points but they also made other changes. One changes made to help pass emissions was to make fueling changes depending on gear. The ECM determines the gear by comparing the output shaft speed to engine RPM. Keep in mind the ratios between gears get smaller as you work you way to 6th. Now, if you change your sprockets and do nothing to fix the speedo, then the relationship between output shaft and RPM has not changed and all is well. However, if you add a speed correcter, you've changed the relationship. Once you get to a certain amount of correction, you're going to have a problem. I've checked with several members with '06-'08 bikes and the tipping point seems to be about -10% and above (more negative number). At that point when you go from 2nd to 3rd, the ECM thinks you went to 4th. When this happens the bike runs very bad a light throttle, surges really bad. I have a '06 and currently have a PCV with Autotune and I know from looking at the data when I download, 4th gear at light throttle, is very lean. I'm guessing it's an emission testing area. Also, I should note that altering the speed signal before it goes into the ECM might affect the ABS system. I don't know this for sure but I think it should be a concern. After all you paid $1000 for ABS, it would be a shame to "break" it with a speed convertor. Again, I don't know this for sure. If anybody does, please let us know. If you what your speedo to read correct, not all hope is lost. I have done the research and can tell you how to make your corrector work. I'm not going to go into the details because there are a couple different correctors out there, but here's the theory. The speed signal is taken off the output sprocket with the speed sensor. There is a pigtail off the sensor with a connector that's in the bundle with the O2 sensors. It's at this connector that the speed corrector will intercept the signal, alter it, then send it on it's way like nothing happened. The signal then travels up the side of the bike just inside the frame to the steering head, just under the tank, where there is a factory splice. The signal now has two legs, one goes to the ECM, and the other to the gauge cluster. The gauge cluster wire goes through a gray connector on the left side of the bike behind the side cover, just before the fairing. It's right next to a blue one, you can't miss it. The wire that your looking for is the pink one. Note: My bike is ABS so if yours isn't, you won't see the valve on the right of the picture. Speedo Correction Wiring, left fairing. New wire attached to the pink lead going into grey connector The object is to, at the sensor plug, split the signal. Send one feed to the "stock" signal bike wire so it gets to the ECM, then send the other feed to the input of the speed corrector. Next, extend the corrector output to the pink wire just before it goes into the gray connector. You must cut the pink wire, connect the extended wire to the pink wire before it goes into the connector. The other end of the pink wire most be protected from water and metal contact since it still has the "stock" signal on it. Liquid tape works good for this. You'll will have to look at how your corrector connects to determine which is the input and which is the output. Also keep in mind most correctors I looked at also power the power from the speed sensor to power the corrector. If you need help figuring out the wiring for your corrector, PM me with the model info and I'll figure it out for you. Speedo Correction Wiring at sensor plug location. Speedo Correction Good mounting location. Again, need help, PM me.

Yes, it is. Thanks. I worked out my custom map calculation based on the table as target AFR and the cumulative actual AFR from dyno session and street riding. Dyno session takes care of high rpm and high tp area, while street riding takes care of low n med rpm at low tp. Before being taken to calculation sheet, I put all actual AFR data at each TP steps on graphics so I could see and delete any irregular datas. This irregular datas are represented by dots or spikes that are clearly outside the main stream of data. Anyway, I got the custom map uploaded into PC III and had the AFR logged afterward on the street. I didn't get feedback for all cells though, but we can see AFR is improved towards the target at many cells. I will keep doing this everytime I ride and get more and more valid datas to adjust the custom map further. Regarding the bike itself, I feel it is significantly smoother at "parking lot" speed and the vtec transition has also improved. I haven't got a chance to measure the gas mileage, but the custom map indicates that it could be worse now. Wow, some of those readings are really lean! Whats up with the 40% column?!? I have to agree with you, the biggest change in mine is the ability to sneek quietly through a residential neighbor 25-30 in 3rd gear, smooth as silk. I think I might try running up to 13.8 in 6th low throttle cruise areas, see how it goes. Thanks for sharing.

I got around this by rerouting the hose so that the fork didn't get in the way. Humm..... Don't understand, got a picture? I'll try to remember to get a picture up later. But I had to take the banjo bolt off to do so. In stock form, the cable runs from the back of the engine to the inside of the left fork, and underneath the triple clamp. I routed it to the outside of the left fork, and have plenty of clearance. However, my risers are custom one-off's, not helibars, and they move the bars at least two inches towards the rear of the bike. I'm not sure if you'd get the same clearance with Helibars, now that I think about it. Do helibars just add height, or do they move them back as well? So.... The line runs on the behind the triple tree (between triple tree and the tank) instead of in front (between triple tree and the fairing)?

I got around this by rerouting the hose so that the fork didn't get in the way. Humm..... Don't understand, got a picture?

I did the test just now. It's on centre stand. I forgot what gear it's in, but it's on 5%TP, 4.7K RPM, around 80km/h indicated speed. Starting from 74 - 111 deg C, I can say that AFR is flickering around 13.6-13.8, constantly along the temp range. Above 105 deg C, I reckon that 13.5 and 13.6 showed up in a blink or two, but I think we can omit it. Though the theory that ECU dumps more fuel at high temp is not proven at this test, we should remember that it is done only at 5%TP. I think it's not conclusive enough. I think I would agree, it's not conclusive. I'll ask around locally and see if I can find a Dynojet LCD display that I can use for a day or so. Know some good hills that I can get the temp up to the 110 range with out too much problem. I still have a hard time believing it starts going rich at 88, that's normal operating temp for me in the summer. Hell, they don't even kick the fan on until 104. I would think the earliest, if any, would be 95 or so. Was the table any help?

Well in theory, the bike itself will compensate for the atmospheric conditions using temp, and MAP sensors. These sensors should tell the ECU to alter the stock map. However, the Auto tune will correct it to your AFR table in the end anyway. This is the reason that even after you have created your main map you still run the Autotune, just to make these fine tune adjustments. Below is a link to Dynojet's AFR table for VFR as shown in the PCV table. I set mine to .1 richer in 80% and 100% in all gears. Also, they don't give you a table for each gear, you must create your own (copy and paste works here). I set may 1st and 2nd gear to 13.2 all the way across to thru 60%, there is no "cruise" in 1st and 2nd. I made a small cruise area with cells as low as 13.5 in 3rd and 4th and an even larger one for 5th with some 13.6's. The 6th gear looks very much like this table, only some minor tweeks. Note- any cell with a zero is not "adjusted" by the Autotune, it controlled by the main map only.

About the PC V w/ auto tune, I'm not sure I will go that way. At least for the time being, cause I really want to understand how things are going on manually with the Wideband 2. I'm even thinking to install this WB2 on car after this. Get some reading and get PC V or PC III installed on my car. It's technically possible. Anyway the difference between man and boy is only the price of their toy With the PCV and Autotune, you see the same info. The PCV works with 3 tables. One is the main map that you are used to seeing in the PCIII. The second is the same table, only instead of plus and minus numbers, it has the AFR that you wish to have at those same RPM/throttle positions. The third map is the "trim" map. This map is filled by the Autotune while the bike is running. Example: Lets say you have in the main map, +10(%) for the 20% throttle at 5000 RPM and you have 13.2 in the 20%-5000RPM cell in the AFR map. Now as your riding and get to that point the PCV will first use the first map to adjust the mixture to +10% of stock. Let's say the AFR sees 13.4. Each of the next cycles will be enriched until it hits the 13.2 that you have in the AFR table for that same cell position. Lets also say it had to alter your +10 to +5 to achieve the 13.2 you were looking for. It doesn't change your main map, instead it will put a -5 in the 20% / 5000 RPM cell in the trim table. The next time it gets to the same 20% throttle and 5000 RPM, it will look at the main map and trim map, do the math and send +5. If all is well, the AFR will read 13.2. When you feel like finding out whats going on, you connect your computer and download your maps. You can view all three maps, and change the first two if you like. At this point you can choose to leave the trim table, clear the trims to zero in all cells, or you can update your main table with the trim table. If you do the later the above example would make the 20% 5000 RPM cell of your main map +5. In theory, each time you update your main maps with your trims you get closer to the perfect map. I should also mention that you can set limits on max change, plus or minus, from you main map. I've got my worked down +10 and -5. This way if there's some problem, no harm will be done. People have asked the question as to why you even need the main map. Well the AFR reading is after the fact. The mixture is first "made" then fired and then measured. You need the map to make the right mixture before it fired. So....... By looking at the main map and trim map, you do see whats going on. For anybody that buys a PCV, I'll be more than happy to share my map(s) with you. I would post them, but I have yet to set all the cells yet. I'm doing separate maps for each gear so thats 2700 cells so it might take awhile. I believe I've set about 1800 or so. Some I may never hit, 100% throttle at 2000 RPM in 6th gear comes to mind. My bike has Remus carbons, BMC filter and blocked off PAIR (required to get good AFR readings).

Fix it in one gear, start the logger, play around with various TP and rpm. Stop the logger. Repeat it again for different gear. I can do that on the street. No problem. Do you have any idea between what gear positions this difference is most apparent? The biggest difference is between 3rd and 4th gear at low throttle positions. It will go really lean. I believe, but not sure, that Dynojet uses 4th gear when doing pulls to make their maps. If you look at one of their "stock" maps for '02-'05 and compare it to a "stock" map for '06-'08, you'll see how lean it really is. Also keep in mind that if you use the map that you are making on a '06-'09, you'll be way lean. That's why Cozeys map doesn't work on '06-'09 (well, that, and the VTEC point). If you're questioning the temp info that Dynojet is telling you (and in my experiance, you should) just start the bike and run it at a constant RPM/throttle position from below that temp to above that temp watching the AFR. The easiest way would be on the center stand. If you do this, please let us know what you find out.

While you're at it, could you check and see if gear selection changes your readings? I have found, for a fact, that '06-'09 has different maps depending on which gear you are in. Thanks.

I also put Helibars on my '06 ABS and my clutch line came up a little short. I had to order a longer one to get full height. If you have the same problem, PM me, and I'll send you the info to get the right length. Other people have not had this problem, I think it's how the hose runs on the ABS model or ????